NOTE: THAT HEADLINE IS A JOKE. IT’S APRIL FOOL’S DAY.
In today’s edition of “Make Shit Up About Man Boobz,” we have this highly upvoted comment from the Men’s Rights subreddit attacking me (us?) for all the evil virgin shaming we supposedly do around here.
The total ridiculousness of this comment is fairly obvious. But I would like to take a moment to clarify a few things.
Being a virgin, or celibate? Not inherently funny.
Being a virgin, or someone who has had literally one sexual encounter with a woman ever, and writing post after post about how evil and icky vaginas are in an attempt to get other men to swear off women forever – that’s pretty funny. That would be a bit like me writing a travel guide to Denmark, or Albania, or any other place I’ve never been to.
Having trouble getting a date? Not inherently funny.
Having trouble getting a date because you’re a loathsome tool who hates women? Funny.
Using a sex toy? Not inherently funny.
Dudes pontificating about how sex toys and sex robots will soon make icky real women obsolete? That shit is fucking hilarious.
Also, sex toys themselves? Yes, they can be funny. I mean, the legendary Fleshlight is a disembodied vagina/mouth/asshole-replacement in the form of a giant clunky flashlight-shaped thing. That’s sort of funny. Attaching this giant clunky thing to an iPad so you can pretend that the iPad (or at least an image on it) is giving you a blowjob? That’s comedy gold!
Here are some other sex toys that are hilarious and/or seriously disturbing, courtesy of Scary Sextoy Friday, perhaps the world’s greatest blog. (All links are NSFW.)
Vibrators shaped like Santa Claus.
A dildo designed to look like poop.
Sorry. I got carried away with the links. That blog is like crack.
@Chris: ithiliana wrote: “But I do have a question: is this site open to women who are also virgins, or is it only men?”
It’s a mostly male dominated site. There is at least one woman incel on there though and a few non-cel women (I have no idea why they’re there). Love-shy.com pretty much allows free speech so people aren’t banned unless they’re obviously trolling. I wouldn’t recommend it unless you have thick skin though.
You misunderstood my intent in asking the question (connected to the rest of my post). I wasn’t asking for myself–but to consider reasons why David might have posted about the forum in the past (He very kindly posted links to his two love shy posts, and I’ve now read them). I’m 56, a queer woman, and am in a lifetime partnership with with a woman (we moved in together in 1995).
It’s definitely possible the tone has changed over there, but what David quoted falls into the entitled asshole misogynistic crap category in my mind–women are eugenicists who won’t sleep with “shy” men?
The idea, expressed by Dave in his post in another thread that women don’t have it as bad as men is just pure crap as well–I replied over there, but trust me, as a fat, shy, glasses-wearing, book reading, nerd in small town Idaho in the 60s and 70s, I was a pariah in a time and place where the pressure to marry was so intense a friend of mine didn’t come to our 20th high school reunion because she was so afraid she’d be the only one not married. And I’ve spent large chunks of my life involuntarily and voluntarily celibate as well. So any person or site that claims women have it easier than men in the lottery of love (AND that totally ignores the existence of alternative sexualities) is ripe for mocking in my book.
I don’t disagree but I would rather date someone instead of just losing my virginity randomly. I think Polligog was saying more or less that you’d do better if you simply tried to make as many connections with women in as many contexts as possible, seeing what might shift into more than friendship, rather than only approaching women with a desperate desire to DATE/HAVE A RELATIONSHIP (especially if you’re approaching women you don’t know very well in that mode). P. was not saying, in my reading of it, that you should have one night stands.
{blockquote}
I completely agree that there can be some hatefulness- but then again, I feel like LS should be a sort of therapeutic space, so I’m reluctant to speak out against it. It’s a place to get sympathy and understanding in a society that offers us so little.
{/blockquote}
Hope I got the quotes right.
I agree with you Dave. And i’m not here to criticize anyone here on love-shy. I’m also facebook friends with one of the woman incels. I’m not sure how many of the women on there are incel, I know of a couple who are non-cel and a few i’m not sure about because I haven’t paid enough attention to their posts.
{blockquote}
Heck, for your benefit, I’m happily to personally define “virgin” as “person who has never been hugged.” Honestly, it’s already enough of a stupid and arbitrary word that I don’t see any reason that definition is any worse than the more mainstream ones.
{/blockquote}
Well thanks. It’s really not the status of being a virgin that gets me down though it’s more the idea that i’ve never experienced what it’s like to have sex and i’ve never experienced what’s it’s like to be in a relationship. I also don’t want to go through life alone, I know some people do but it just seems very depressing to imagine.
Seeing if I can show you the symbols you should put around BLOCKQUOTE:
On my keyboard, do SHIFT plus COMMA key for the first one:
Angle brackets
It’s <blockquote> Will comment on rest in a minute (if I feel like it)
Greater and Less Than signs trigger code, so you can’t just randomly insert them!
Of course, they disappear because HTML.
But yeah SHIFT COMMA blockquote SHIFT PERIOD what you want to quote SHIFT COMMA RIGHT LEANING SLASH Blockquote SHIFT PERIOD.
Replace the word “blockquote” with “em” no quotation marks to get italics like this
It’s a big giant plot…..
You got friends, ain’t you? Family? You’re not alone.
Also, relationships are a lot like friendships, but more intimate. It’s bland but it’s true.
And you close the tag with </blockquote>
@Chris: I also don’t want to go through life alone,
You have no family? You have no friends (offline OR online?) You have no people you hang out with because it’s fun? You have no people you do things with, ditto? You have no people you discuss srs business of life with? There is nobody in your life at all?
And if that is so, do you really think a relationship with ONE person will solve this issue–i.e. while I have never married (and honstly, never wanted to, seeing what marriage meant when I was growing up in the 50s and 60s, it was like holy shit no way, even more when I saw the ‘giving birth film”), I have a lot of friends who are married (and divorced) (and remarried)….a LOT since I’m an outlier. And the most stifling, horrible, ghastly relationships (and I’m not even talking physical abuse here) were those in which the husband needed his wife to provide everything for him–all major emotional work. Who would want to do that for somebody else?
Ninja’d by Rutee! TWICE!
Serial devirginizer here. I have been the first for 13 guys, including two who were in their 30s at the time they finally had a first hug, kiss, oral gratification, and sex. In one case, he was that way because he never went anywhere or did anything. The other case, he was too shy to even say hi to a woman. His brother nagged him to post an online profile and as soon as I showed interest in him he got a bunch of other hits. And my best friend is still waiting until he gets married before he has sex and is now in his thirties.
You have a few options here-you can decide that sex is a nice thing to one day have and just go forth to do lots of stuff you find fun without expecting sex and maybe it will eventually involve a lady friend because people do like to date those who they have interests in common with. You can also point out to the friends that you never pick up on the clues-women are not mind readers and they may not be aware that they have to be standing nude in front of you yelling “I WANT TO FUCK YOUR BRAINS OUT NOW” before you can maybe think “hmm, is this person interested in having sex with me?”
Or, if the thing is to see if you can get over the initial shyness by having the mystery taken out of sex by having it-you can hire a prostitute (if you live in an area where that is legal) I have had friends who lost theirs that way and there is nothing wrong with that because they had a good first time experience that got them through the Mystery Of Sex.
Or you can try meeting someone online where the expectation is strictly sex (like with Adult Friend Finder) if the idea is to just have one sexual encounter to get past it. But bear in mind that it is a crapshoot and there is no guarantees.
If you do want a relationship though-do the first one. It is the best way to do that because it gives you something to talk about and talking is mildly important.
Ithilina: The “Quasi-Eugenics” user was a single person on the site. I think he had some success and ended up leaving the site.
Princess Bonbon said “Or, if the thing is to see if you can get over the initial shyness by having the mystery taken out of sex by having it-you can hire a prostitute (if you live in an area where that is legal)”
You know, it is legal not far from me. I live in arizona which is not far from nevada. But I decided against doing it. My main reason why is because I’m worried that if I get a girlfriend down the road after I did it i’d worry what she would think of me and I wouldn’t want to lie either I don’t think that’s right to do.
So yeah i’d rather try it on my own, even if it might take a lot of work to overcome my social anxiety or whatever else I might have to do.
I understand if you do not want to do the prostitute thing but never say never.
I live in Arizona though and I would say it is possible to get laid by a woman here even if you are currently a virgin. Just takes time so go with the first option.
@Chris: yeah, I read around a bit just out of curiosity (after tornado warning earlier, I feel like should be on vacation rather than grading papers). I’m sure most aren’t as nasty as the ones David F. linked to–but you know, he links to misogynistic stuff. He hasn’t done a lot of posts on Love Shy, not compared to the REALLY shitty sites, so I’m wondering why you felt you had to somehow speak up and defend the site.
@Ithiliana I hope you’re not in any danger. For that matter, I hope no manboobzers are in danger! I live in earthquake country, but nothing terrifies me more than tornadoes.
I think 21’s a bit young to be considering desperation measures. Go to a sex worker if you think it’ll be fun or it’ll get a weight off your chest, but not because you feel like it’s your last resort. LOTS of people aren’t getting laid at 21, it’s not a crisis.
(I don’t think being a virgin at 31 is necessarily a crisis either, but it’s less common. Being a virgin at 21 is downright normal.)
@Cloudiah: Thanks, we’re fine! We work in Commerce, TX which was one of the towns in the path–and today I had a doctor’s appointment in the east part of Dallas–luckily we heard the news, came home early, and when we realized (tracking it through NOAA radio, Weather Channel, and Weatherbug on my Droid) that our home was in area, we boxed cats up in carriers, and took cover in hallway and inner wall of bedroom (I had Katie the rescue dog with me, my partner had the other two). It was over in about an hour or so–it was fairly major, but we were on the edge. I’m just going to go see if there’s any news about whether Commerce was hit or not (the picture of the major tornado–there was one big one and multiple smaller ones) tossing tractor trailer trucks up into the air like playtoys was scary. I agree–I think tornadoes are scarier than earthquakes (though I’ve never been through a big earthquake, just little ones).
We’re fine, though having an 83.5 (she’s lost 9 pounds!) chocolate lab trying to lie on top of me while I was on floor near carriers with two extremely loud complaining cats (and have a bad back) was…..complicated. I finally talked her into her dog bed right by my head. The cats, however, did not stop complaining at being caged (proving all men and women shriek their heads off when you put them in a carrier during a tornado warning!) (our biggest fear is that if something bad hit, the animals would be lost–ok, well, probably biggest fear is we’d be dead but after that lost animals).
I just want to chime in and say YES, BEING A VIRGIN IN YOUR EARLY 20s IS OKAY! 😀 It’s totally normal (heck, that’s when I hadn’t had sex yet) and you still have YEARS ahead of you to meet people and do awesome stuff. 🙂
RE: Chris
I had sexual contact earlier than you… but it was very much non-consensual, so not very useful. My general rule is: if people give a shit about that, they aren’t worth hanging around with.
Fortunately, I have many asexual friends (I’m on the spectrum myself) which demystifies the concept of having not had sexual contact with someone. I mean, it’s an activity you do. It is given a ton of cultural baggage, and it can be immensely personally meaningful… but it can also be utterly uninteresting.
My current partner didn’t have sex until he was in his early 20s and I know many others for whom the same is true. I was 19, but I actually wish I’d waited a bit longer, as the whole thing seemed like a huge let-down. I think I’d invested a lot into the concept of “virginity” and how important it was.
I have also been celibate for years in the past — the crucial thing then was to maintain relationships with friends and family.
Sometimes it’s more about wanting to be touched than to actually have sex, but I guess everyone’s different that way.
Yeah, to agree with LBT, sex isn’t always the best thing in the world. When I first started having sex, it only complicated my relationship and my life. My first few PIV experiences were quite painful, which was pretty bad in and of itself, but was made even worse because I worried it proved there was something wrong with me. Had I stayed a virgin so long that I would never be able to enjoy sex? Would this make me such a terrible lover that no one would want to sleep with me again? What kind of freak was I? Then I realized that I, shy, inexperienced thing, was going to have to talk to my partner about all of this, which was incredibly hard for me to do at the time. If you’re already pretty uncomfortable talking to other people, talking about something that private and taboo is not going to be easier. And, as it turns out, everybody has to talk about sex when they’re having it, even if there’s no pain involved.
Chris: Sex is nice. It’s not the most important thing. Romance is nice too, but it’s not the most important thing.
I’ve been abstinent, by choice some, but mostly because no one in whom I was interested was interested back. I know lots of people who are/were virgins well into their later 20s, or even into their thirties, Some into (I’m pretty sure) their forties.
The one’s who obsessed about it, had much less happy lives and they ended up waiting longer. I think the real thing is the value the society puts on it. Viscaria hit on some of that. Movies make it worse. The mood lighting, the glow in the next scene. Sometimes that happens: sometimes. Sometimes is just a thing. I have had waltzes which were better than lots of the sex I’ve had.
I’ve had moments with my camera which were better than lots of the sex I’ve had. I know it sounds trite, but if you stop looking, you’ll do better at finding.
As to the “using money to ‘solve the problem'”, I know a couple of people who’ve done that. If you want to, it’s a way. From reports, spend the money to have some time. Talk to her, treat her like a person, and it will be better.
But that’s all I have to say. It’s a judgement call. Treat her like a person, and it’s all good. Which is pretty much the rule for sex anyway.
I like sex and I haven’t gotten laid in a very long time. Guess what, I haven’t started spewing vile about all of humanity (I’m bi…) because of it and don’t think it would be justified if I did. It’s bigotry to think that about half the fucking human population is responsible and accountable for seeing you have sex because of their gender. Thinking that women aren’t individuals and that they owe men special consideration is total bullshit.
@Ithiliana, I’m glad to hear you’re okay after the TX tornadoes! I understand how scary it is, since I was in the Joplin tornado last year. You’re right that it is very scary to just all of a sudden have everything around you completely leveled. I saw the footage of your tornado on the TV, and it reminded me of what we went through last year. I know it’s expensive, but if you can afford it you might want to consider buying a storm shelter. A hallway or interior room is better than nothing, but it isn’t enough for an EF3 or greater tornado. We just passed a school bond issue yesterday to rebuild the Joplin schools to have FEMA approved storm shelters. As a parent, I do not want my child crouching in a hallway if another mile wide monster twister should happen again. If you watch the surveillance videos from Joplin High, it shows that hallways become wind tunnels full of debris and are very dangerous.
I have a sad story about one of my neighbors and her dog. I’m not talking about the neighbor that died, but the neighbor on the other side of my house that survived. Anyway, she ran to her back door to call her dogs in right before the tornado hit. Two came in, but one wouldn’t. She realized the twister was too close to wait, though, so gave up and got under a mattress in her hall just in the nick of time. The back of her house was sucked away, but it was so dark she could barely tell what was even happening. After it was over, the dog was nowhere to be seen. She never found him either, although many missing animals were recovered or adopted out. She felt bad to give up on him, but in the end she did what she had to do to survive herself. I feel so bad for her.
@ Darksidecat
“Guess what, I haven’t started spewing vile about all of humanity”
Guess what? Neither have I. Nor about women for that matter. Are you just assuming that I do because of the reputation of the website I come from?
You can call me a bigot or anything you want to call me. I know what I am and what i’m not.
Have I been frustrated about it? Sure. Frustrated about how difficult it for me. Frustrated because I have no idea what to say to a woman. I have social anxiety and I’m probably boring. On the dating sites I can never think of anything interesting to say in the first messages, which is probably why I never get any responses. And I have no idea how I can fix it, which gets frustrating. I admit what my faults are and I don’t blame anyone for them.
The shit in the OP is SO INCREDIBLY FRUSTRATING, mostly because feminism has expanded my mind so much about what healthy sexuality can look like. Virginity is totally okay, fine, and a normal state of affairs for many people (as is having LOTS of partners) but I don’t know if I’d have been able to break out of the mind set that you date some in college, have sex with only people you are in serious relationships with, and then get married, if it weren’t for feminism. I know people who have had 3-ways before PIV, asexual people, people in non-monogamous relationships, queer people, kinky people, everything under the sun. The amount of variety in sexual relationships is amazing and thrilling, and it has taken feminism to clue me into that.
@Chris- You say you can “never think of anything interesting to say” on dating sites. Here’s some advice; ask them questions. Is there a book on their profile that you’ve been meaning to read? Did they study abroad in Thailand? Do they mention tae-kwon do as an interest, and you’re looking for a new place to train? Asking people about their lives and interests is a great way to start a conversation, and when I am online dating, I GREATLY prefer an approach that shows someone has read my profile and has common interests with me, than someone using a generic charming pick-up line.