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Let’s shame some virgins!

NOTE: THAT HEADLINE IS A JOKE. IT’S APRIL FOOL’S DAY.

In today’s edition of “Make Shit Up About Man Boobz,” we have this highly upvoted comment from the Men’s Rights subreddit attacking me (us?) for all the evil virgin shaming we supposedly do around here.

 

The total ridiculousness of this comment is fairly obvious. But I would like to take a moment to clarify a few things.

Being a virgin, or celibate? Not inherently funny.

Being a virgin, or someone who has had literally one sexual encounter with a woman ever, and writing post after post about how evil and icky vaginas are in an attempt to get other men to swear off women forever – that’s pretty funny. That would be a bit like me writing a travel guide to Denmark, or Albania, or any other place I’ve never been to.

Having trouble getting a date? Not inherently funny.

Having trouble getting a date because you’re a loathsome tool who hates women? Funny.

Using a sex toy? Not inherently funny.

Dudes pontificating about how sex toys and sex robots will soon make icky real women obsolete? That shit is fucking hilarious.

Also, sex toys themselves? Yes, they can be funny. I mean, the legendary Fleshlight is a disembodied vagina/mouth/asshole-replacement in the form of a giant clunky flashlight-shaped thing. That’s sort of  funny. Attaching this giant clunky thing to an iPad so you can pretend that the iPad (or at least an image on it) is giving you a blowjob? That’s comedy gold!

Here are some other sex toys that are hilarious and/or seriously disturbing, courtesy of Scary Sextoy Friday, perhaps the world’s greatest blog. (All links are NSFW.)

Vibrators shaped like Santa Claus.

A dildo designed to look like poop.

Any sex toy with a mustache

Anal Ring Toss

This … thing.

This … other … thing.

Sorry. I got carried away with the links. That blog is like crack.

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lauralot89
9 years ago

I’m really surprised Scary Sextoy Friday hasn’t featured the Drilldo.

Creative Writing Student
Creative Writing Student
9 years ago

^ or the Baby Jesus Butt Plug (I found out about this because someone compared The Sims 3 ghost babies to it… disturbing), or the Vamp (sparkles! put it in the fridge for a more realistic experience!), or the internally spiked cockring…

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
9 years ago

I can’t believe I forgot to post this earlier.

I’m guessing it’s NSFW.

Such majestic imaginary creatures.

Creative Writing Student
Creative Writing Student
9 years ago

I tried looking for unicorn-shaped sex toys (taking a detour into ‘unicorn sexuality’ which wasn’t as ‘interesting’ as I had hoped) and found nothing bizarre. Just some alternate shapes for dildos. Internet, why must you fail me???

I did find the Cthulu dildo though…

http://boingboing.net/2010/12/11/cthulhu-sex-toys.html (NSFW)

Anyway, I gotta clean my history now.

lauralot89
9 years ago

@CWS: I found one. Here you go.

lauralot89
9 years ago

And while my Google search is still up, here’s a review of a uni-dildo: http://essinem.wordpress.com/2008/02/26/sex-toy-review-unicorn-horn-dildo/

Chris
Chris
9 years ago

Ok. I’m a male virgin 22 years old. I’m also a member of a web forum called Love-Shy.com which you’ve had articles about in the past. As incels we are probably the opposite of the MGTOW people who say they want nothing to do with women. Incels want to have a woman in our lives and the frustration you may see on the site is a result of their inability to get a woman.

As for myself I have really bad social anxiety which leads me to not even be able to approach unknown women. I have anxiety that i’m going to make a fool of myself talking to women, or even worse she would say something nasty or laugh at me. I also have anxiety that i’m going to come off as “creepy” because my social skills aren’t that great and i’ll probably be nervous and my voice will shake and stuff which will be very awkward for both of us. So I just avoid doing it, if I see someone I find attractive I just wish that I could say something but I never do.

I’ve also tried online dating where I don’t really have the anxiety that I would have in real life but most of the women I tried talking to ignored my messages or stopped talking to me after a few messages. A lot of people also view my profile and don’t message me.

The reason why I like Love-Shy.com is because I find I can relate to everyone on the site, they know what it’s like to be a virgin at 22 years old. To never have been on a date and have to watch family members, friends dating. Watch tv and you see storylines about dating. Listen to the radio and you hear love songs, it’s pretty much impossible to go a day without being reminded of the fact that you’re alone.

The reason why I wanted to write this is because i’ve seen you criticize the website but it’s a very old post and now that you’ve brought up the topic of virgins I figured it would be a good time to do it.

Creative Writing Student
Creative Writing Student
9 years ago

I found those, but I was hoping for one in the shape of an actual unicorn. I guess the equine would be a little extraenous to the purpose. 🙁

Ah well, if the whole writing thing doesn’t work out I could always go into business selling fantastical beast-themed sex dolls…

Creative Writing Student
Creative Writing Student
9 years ago

Not because I’m interested myself in having sex with a silicone unicorn, btw. Just because I have a weird sense of humour, and I know someone out there is interested in having sex with a silicone unicorn.

Kyrie
Kyrie
9 years ago

Chris, I know what it is to be a 21-yo virgin who never dated and never kissed. I hope you can overcome your issue or at least learn to deal with them and not let them make you miserable. Good luck on that.

BlackBloc
BlackBloc
9 years ago

I was also a 21 year-old virgin. I think young 20somethings have an unrealistic expectation that they should be having sex or otherwise they’re not normal, but fact is I never was shamed by any of my partners for my inexperience… in fact some women find that endearing or hot (my first was a casual hookup with a girl my age that had a virgin fetish).

Kyrie
Kyrie
9 years ago

My first was actually a 24 yo virgin. I guess one of the tricks is not to let your life revolve around the absence of sex.

Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

I guess one of the tricks is not to let your life revolve around the absence of sex.

This. I lost my virginity young but then I didn’t get laid again for several years, and you know what I did about it?

Got my degree, worked on a whole bunch of exciting projects, traveled across the country, and on one notable occasion snuck into the set of “House” while they were filming. I didn’t like not having sex, but I didn’t treat not-having-sex like an activity. I had a lot of other things to do.

I won’t claim that made it all okay and made me never lonely or frustrated. But I do think that a dog-grooming forum or a sculpture forum or a Korean War history forum are better places for a virgin to be than a virginity forum.

(Also, 21 is not unspeakably old. My boyfriend lost his virginity at 25.)

Also I think Love-Shy has a lot of guys who aren’t constructively coping with loneliness, but raging out at women for not nominating one of their number to give them the sex they deserve. There’s a lot of anger and entitlement there.

Also also, it’s important to know that when you lose your virginity nothing really changes. If you have low self-esteem, you’ll wake up the next morning devirginized and with low self-esteem. If your social skills are bad, you’ll wake up with bad social skills. If you don’t have a lot of friends, you’ll wake up without a lot of friends. Sex is fun, but sex isn’t going to fix any problems other than “not having sex.”

Kyrie
Kyrie
9 years ago

Also also, it’s important to know that when you lose your virginity nothing really changes.

That’s very true. The morning after my first time, I was mind boggled about the fact that nothing had changed. I didn’t feel more confident, more mature, older, less pure, less innocent, more connected to the guy, not part of a people-who-had-sex group, not even more experimented, I had no more sex-appeal and all my other issues were still there, unchanged. I felt like something should have happen, almost as I expected to be given a cookie or to be struck by lightening. Our society make such a big deal about it, and there was… nothing.

However, when I had my first ‘sexual’ experiment, a few month earlier, (not a very pleasurable time btw) I spend th following week laughing uncontrollably because of the ridicule and awkwardness of the situation.

Viscaria
Viscaria
9 years ago

Our culture approaches virginity and the loss of virginity in such a messed up way, and it’s obvious from the extremely flawed language we use to talk about it. The word “virgin”, being a noun, seems like it describes a kind of person. Like virginity is a trait. Really, all it does is say something about whether someone has had a particular kind of experience. We don’t do that with any other experiences. There’s no word that means “the kind of person who has never bungee-jumped”; although you can borrow the sex term and say “bungee-jumping virgin.” Usually, though, we would just say “that person hasn’t bungee-jumped before,” and not make any sort of claims about who they are because of it.

And then there’s euphemisms for the loss of virginity like “becoming a man” and “making a woman out of her”*, which seem to suggest a person’s adult status is determined by how their genitals have been interacting with other people’s genitals. It’s like, you have sex once, and suddenly you gain 5 years’ worth of maturity! Magic!

All of this language works together to create the impression that having sex fundamentally changes us. We become different, better people after our first sexual experiences, so it’s really really important to have sex that first time, ASAP. But of course, that doesn’t actually happen. Sex can be really fun, but having it one time can’t actually change who you are.

I guess what I’m saying is, it doesn’t really make sense to be preoccupied with one’s status as a virgin or non-virgin. I get feeling sad and frustrated and lonely because you want sex or a relationship, but there’s no reason to obsess about whether you’ve had sex once or never, because it doesn’t actually say anything about who you are as a person.

*Note that becoming a man is something male people actively do, whereas being made a woman is something that female people passively have done to them. Oh, and generally, only a man can do it to them. I guess that means female people who have only had sex with other female people never reach adulthood?

Polliwog
Polliwog
9 years ago

I’ve also tried online dating where I don’t really have the anxiety that I would have in real life but most of the women I tried talking to ignored my messages or stopped talking to me after a few messages. A lot of people also view my profile and don’t message me.

Other people have talked about the fucked-up-ness of the whole “virginity” concept very well, but I wanted to pull out this paragraph and add that this is an incredibly normal experience, even for people who are totally confident, sexy, capable adults. It’s also not because women are “ignoring” you per se, and you’ll probably be happier if you don’t think of it that way. Women on dating sites are generally there, like you, to meet someone they want to date. Which means if they’re already hitting it off with a guy who messaged them three weeks before you did, they often won’t answer. If they happen to be busy at work and know they won’t have time to do much chatting in the next few weeks, they often won’t answer. If they see your picture and think, “He may be nice, but I really only go for blonds/Japanese men/guys with beards/guys who are at least 25/whatever,” they often won’t answer. If they read your profile and think, “We have totally different interests,” they often won’t answer. And so on, and so forth. It’s not you doing something wrong or being somehow “bad” – it’s them quite reasonably not wasting your time if they do not believe dating you is a thing that would happen, and there’s loads and loads of reasons for that that have nothing to do with you, or have to do with you only in entirely value-neutral ways.

Also, incidentally, on the virginity issue, one more way that it’s kind of silly: one time, a few years back, I took a poll of friends on how they defined “losing” one’s virginity. Based on their definitions, I lost my virginity at 18, 19, 19 again, 21, 21 again, 24, 25, and 26. That’s how dumb this term is – it’s such a silly, fuzzy concept that based on asking about 15 friends, I lost my virginity on eight separate occasions, according to their assorted definitions. And you know what? Not one of those occasions was particularly special. A couple were even downright unpleasant. None of them were things to build an identity around, and as others have said, I think you’ll be a whole lot happier if you work on seeing yourself not as “Chris, the guy who hasn’t engaged in this one arbitrary and often overrated activity” (I like sex a LOT, but that doesn’t mean it’s not frequently massively overrated), but as “Chris, the guy who is really awesome at [things you are awesome at].”

(Oh, and last but not least? Two bits of approaching-women advice: As a fellow shy/socially anxious person, I’ve found it actually often helps if you outright say, “Hi, I’m kind of awkward and shy around people I don’t know well.” People’s reaction to that is a lot less likely to be “that’s creepy” and a lot more likely to be “that’s kind of endearing.” Also, I recommend not starting out by approaching women because you find them hot – approach women because you think they seem like cool people, regardless of whether they’re hot. The point of talking to women should not be, “I NEED SOMEONE TO DEVIRGINIZE ME, STAT!” but rather, “I need practice in talking to people, and this person seems like she would be pleasant to talk to.” If somewhere down the line the conversation turns into flirtation, that’s cool, but that’s a thought for “down the line.”)

BlackBloc
BlackBloc
9 years ago

>>>But I do think that a dog-grooming forum or a sculpture forum or a Korean War history forum are better places for a virgin to be than a virginity forum.

Exactly. Men who actually go their own way don’t spend time on MGTOW forum, they spend time on forums about their interests. If you dedicate a lot of time to forums revolving around explaining how you totally don’t think about women or sex, guess what, you’re dedicating a lot of time about thinking about women or sex.

Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

The point of talking to women should not be, “I NEED SOMEONE TO DEVIRGINIZE ME, STAT!” but rather, “I need practice in talking to people, and this person seems like she would be pleasant to talk to.”

Totally extremely yes. Because:

A) If you treat every social encounter as being about the possible loss of your virginity, every social encounter is going to play merry hell with your emotions. Every time a woman smiles at you is going to be “YES THIS IS FINALLY IT” and every time she says “well, better be going now, have a nice day” is going to be a crushing agony of rejection.

B) If every social encounter is playing merry hell with your emotions, you’re going to act really weird. I don’t care how socially skilled you are, it’s hard to be balanced on that precipice between ecstasy and defeat and not turn into an awkward, stammering, sweating, panting wreck. Which chicks are not into.

C) Making friends whom you don’t have sex with is a worthwhile endeavor in itself. Interesting people have a lot to offer in the way of teaching you, of supporting you, of giving you a sense of self-worth when you teach and support them, of introducing you to exciting new places and people, and simply being good company.

D) When you start treating sex as less of a Big Hairy Deal and more of a thing that people who like each other do sometimes, you are a lot more likely to start having sex.

ithiliana
9 years ago

@Chris: I don’t have any opinions about the site you mention (which may mean I’ve forgotten posts made here since I started hanging out, or David hadn’t done a post on it for a while).

But I do have a question: is this site open to women who are also virgins, or is it only men?

Because I would wonder if a male only site would not fall into blaming women in which case then I’d say, yes, that’s why a site like this one might mock it.

I’d also agree with other comments you’ve gotten here, and note that at a certain age and state of being, it’s possible to think everybody around you in person and in the media and on Mars for all I know is having sex, and you’re the only one who isn’t. That’s a wildly inaccurate perception of the situation.

Chris
Chris
9 years ago

Ok a lot of people responded.

David: Yes i’ve read those two posts you wrote about the love-shy forums. I’m not going to come on here and deny that sometimes angry extreme things are said on there because they are. Although I do think it’s toned down a lot in the last year or so. When I first joined the site about 2 and a half years ago it had a lot more extreme users than it does now.

I don’t know how to quote on here but I want to respond to some things people said.

ithiliana wrote: “But I do have a question: is this site open to women who are also virgins, or is it only men?”

It’s a mostly male dominated site. There is at least one woman incel on there though and a few non-cel women (I have no idea why they’re there). Love-shy.com pretty much allows free speech so people aren’t banned unless they’re obviously trolling. I wouldn’t recommend it unless you have thick skin though.

Polliwog wrote: “Also, incidentally, on the virginity issue, one more way that it’s kind of silly: one time, a few years back, I took a poll of friends on how they defined “losing” one’s virginity. Based on their definitions, I lost my virginity at 18, 19, 19 again, 21, 21 again, 24, 25, and 26.”

I think i’m a virgin by any definition. I’ve never even been kissed. I did get hugged by a girl once back in high school but I don’t think that would qualify under any definition.

Polliwog wrote: “The point of talking to women should not be, “I NEED SOMEONE TO DEVIRGINIZE ME, STAT!” but rather, “I need practice in talking to people, and this person seems like she would be pleasant to talk to.”

I don’t disagree but I would rather date someone instead of just losing my virginity randomly. Although I do worry that i’m going to end up an older virgin if I don’t do lose it soon. There are guys on love-shy.com that are in their 30s or even 40s who are still virgins.

cloudiah
9 years ago

@Chris I just want to chime in and say you’ve gotten some VERY good advice here. The only thing I would add is that, if you have friends/family members who are dating and they are people that you trust, you might ask them for brutally honest feedback on your online profile and your offline behavior. It can be hard to hear (and give) truly honest feedback, but I’ve had friends who were lovely people and just needed to hear things like “Hygiene is important!” But really, most important is to concentrate on living your life, doing interesting things where you meet new people, being the best (i.e. non-bitter) person you can be, and being genuinely interested in people as people and not only as potential de-virginizers.

Quoting: Take the text you want to quote, put it inside the following:
[blockquote]
TEXT
[/blockquote]
But replace the square brackets with the less than/greater than angle brackets. But the way you’re doing it is fine too.

Viscaria
Viscaria
9 years ago

@Chris,

First of all, quotes can be done with the tags (blockquote)whatever you’re quoting(/blockquote), only use angle brackets instead. 🙂

Now, that dealt with: I really feel for you. It can suck to want to be close to someone and not be able to. I’m like you, if you’re curious. I’m not really into sex outside of relationships. Back before I started having sex — and I was a virgin for years longer than most of my friends — a lot of well-meaning people would ask me why I didn’t hit a random bar with them, and they’d help me bring home a sexy someone. I’d tell them that it wasn’t my thing, even though I know it’s pretty awesome for a lot of people. So they shrugged, and said “cool!” and went and found sexy someones for themselves, as I stayed a virgin. It’s a perfectly fine choice if it’s what works for you (and it certainly is for me!) as long as you realize that you’re deliberately choosing to limit your options somewhat. You can’t blame women for that. I actually don’t think you are blaming women, but a lot of guys on “incel”-type sites seem to, and it’s toxic. Please try not to get wrapped up in it.

Look, I’m just a stranger on the Internet, but if you want my wise and savvy advice… If your social anxiety is something you wish you could change about yourself, maybe consider counselling to help deal with it? I say this as someone whose life is a million times better when she’s in regular therapy. Sites like LoveShy are going to give you a good source of compassion, but they’re probably not going to be able to help you change into the person you want to be. If I were you, I would set myself a goal I could control. A woman being interested in you is out of your control, but things like “learn to be more relaxed in social settings” is something you can do for yourself.

As I said, though, I’m just some random Canuck on the Internet. I don’t know your life.

Polliwog
Polliwog
9 years ago

I think i’m a virgin by any definition. I’ve never even been kissed. I did get hugged by a girl once back in high school but I don’t think that would qualify under any definition.

You might be surprised. There are some weird definitions out there. :-p

Heck, for your benefit, I’m happily to personally define “virgin” as “person who has never been hugged.” Honestly, it’s already enough of a stupid and arbitrary word that I don’t see any reason that definition is any worse than the more mainstream ones. So congrats, you’re no longer a virgin! Now go out and do something more fun than worrying about being a virgin. 🙂

Also, I didn’t get kissed for the first time until I was 19. (Yes, that number is later than one of the other numbers I listed, and yes, the story that makes that true is fucking depressing.) I kind of obsessed over that, myself. And then a guy kissed me, and it was…profoundly anticlimactic. In many ways, I ended up feeling worse about it afterward than I had felt before, not because there was anything bad about that kiss (it was a nice kiss, from a nice guy), but because I’d invested so much meaning into it only to discover that in the end, it was pretty much just a guy putting his lips against mine, not a rite of passage or a meaningful change in my life or my identity.

I don’t disagree but I would rather date someone instead of just losing my virginity randomly. Although I do worry that i’m going to end up an older virgin if I don’t do lose it soon. There are guys on love-shy.com that are in their 30s or even 40s who are still virgins.

And what terrible thing would happen if you did end up an older virgin?

I get that you don’t want that, and I understand, and I sympathize – but what I and others have been saying is that there’s nothing more objectively bad about being a 40-year-old virgin than about being a 40-year-old person who has never eaten a cheeseburger, or a 40-year-old person who has never visited the Grand Canyon. Eating cheeseburgers, visiting the Grand Canyon, and sex are all enjoyable things to do, but none of them are Who You Are. They’re just…stuff. And the more you obsess about them and give them meaning they don’t have, the more disappointing it is when you do finally eat that cheeseburger and discover that it isn’t actually all that exciting, and you’re exactly the same person post-cheeseburger as you were before it.

I know this sounds counterintuitive, but I promise you it’s good advice: if you really want to have sex with someone, if you really want to find a relationship, the absolute best thing you can do is…stop thinking about it. Stop worrying. Stop wondering when it will happen. Stop fretting about what happens if it doesn’t. Find things that genuinely give you pleasure, and if, while you are doing those things, you encounter a girl who seems nice, say hi. Not because maybe she’ll be the one to sex you/want you/love you/date you/etc., but just because she seems nice, and that’s plenty of reason in itself. Some of those nice girls you say hi to may become friends, and some may become lovers, and some may say “hi” back and then never talk to you again, and all of those outcomes are okay. That’s the best thing you can do. The absolute worst thing you can do is to define yourself by your virginity, to spend time talking about it and agonizing about it and trying to make it mean anything more than not having eaten cheeseburgers.

(Note: I’m not saying that sex is meaningless. It can absolutely be incredibly meaningful, at the right time and with the right person. But so can a cheeseburger, if it has some reason to be invested with meaning. That doesn’t make either one a thing worth wasting your life on waiting for.)

Dave
Dave
9 years ago

Apologies for posting in the wrong thread earlier. Anyway, Chris, I’m also a semi-regular member of Love-Shy. I completely agree that there can be some hatefulness- but then again, I feel like LS should be a sort of therapeutic space, so I’m reluctant to speak out against it. It’s a place to get sympathy and understanding in a society that offers us so little. Anyway, a few woman incels have also expressed their frustrations in angry terms, and I’m never offended, because I understand the hurt behind it.

Personally I don’t have a problem with non-cels posting, although I think they should be aware that they are outsiders in a space that is not meant for them.

Ithiliana
9 years ago

@Chris: ithiliana wrote: “But I do have a question: is this site open to women who are also virgins, or is it only men?”

It’s a mostly male dominated site. There is at least one woman incel on there though and a few non-cel women (I have no idea why they’re there). Love-shy.com pretty much allows free speech so people aren’t banned unless they’re obviously trolling. I wouldn’t recommend it unless you have thick skin though.

You misunderstood my intent in asking the question (connected to the rest of my post). I wasn’t asking for myself–but to consider reasons why David might have posted about the forum in the past (He very kindly posted links to his two love shy posts, and I’ve now read them). I’m 56, a queer woman, and am in a lifetime partnership with with a woman (we moved in together in 1995).

It’s definitely possible the tone has changed over there, but what David quoted falls into the entitled asshole misogynistic crap category in my mind–women are eugenicists who won’t sleep with “shy” men?

The idea, expressed by Dave in his post in another thread that women don’t have it as bad as men is just pure crap as well–I replied over there, but trust me, as a fat, shy, glasses-wearing, book reading, nerd in small town Idaho in the 60s and 70s, I was a pariah in a time and place where the pressure to marry was so intense a friend of mine didn’t come to our 20th high school reunion because she was so afraid she’d be the only one not married. And I’ve spent large chunks of my life involuntarily and voluntarily celibate as well. So any person or site that claims women have it easier than men in the lottery of love (AND that totally ignores the existence of alternative sexualities) is ripe for mocking in my book.

I don’t disagree but I would rather date someone instead of just losing my virginity randomly. I think Polligog was saying more or less that you’d do better if you simply tried to make as many connections with women in as many contexts as possible, seeing what might shift into more than friendship, rather than only approaching women with a desperate desire to DATE/HAVE A RELATIONSHIP (especially if you’re approaching women you don’t know very well in that mode). P. was not saying, in my reading of it, that you should have one night stands.

Chris
Chris
9 years ago

{blockquote}
I completely agree that there can be some hatefulness- but then again, I feel like LS should be a sort of therapeutic space, so I’m reluctant to speak out against it. It’s a place to get sympathy and understanding in a society that offers us so little.
{/blockquote}

Hope I got the quotes right.

I agree with you Dave. And i’m not here to criticize anyone here on love-shy. I’m also facebook friends with one of the woman incels. I’m not sure how many of the women on there are incel, I know of a couple who are non-cel and a few i’m not sure about because I haven’t paid enough attention to their posts.

{blockquote}
Heck, for your benefit, I’m happily to personally define “virgin” as “person who has never been hugged.” Honestly, it’s already enough of a stupid and arbitrary word that I don’t see any reason that definition is any worse than the more mainstream ones.
{/blockquote}

Well thanks. It’s really not the status of being a virgin that gets me down though it’s more the idea that i’ve never experienced what it’s like to have sex and i’ve never experienced what’s it’s like to be in a relationship. I also don’t want to go through life alone, I know some people do but it just seems very depressing to imagine.

Ithiliana
9 years ago

Seeing if I can show you the symbols you should put around BLOCKQUOTE:

On my keyboard, do SHIFT plus COMMA key for the first one:

Angle brackets

Rutee Katreya
9 years ago

It’s <blockquote> Will comment on rest in a minute (if I feel like it)

Greater and Less Than signs trigger code, so you can’t just randomly insert them!

Ithiliana
9 years ago

Of course, they disappear because HTML.

But yeah SHIFT COMMA blockquote SHIFT PERIOD what you want to quote SHIFT COMMA RIGHT LEANING SLASH Blockquote SHIFT PERIOD.

Replace the word “blockquote” with “em” no quotation marks to get italics like this

Ithiliana
9 years ago

It’s a big giant plot…..

Rutee Katreya
9 years ago

Well thanks. It’s really not the status of being a virgin that gets me down though it’s more the idea that i’ve never experienced what it’s like to have sex and i’ve never experienced what’s it’s like to be in a relationship. I also don’t want to go through life alone, I know some people do but it just seems very depressing to imagine.

You got friends, ain’t you? Family? You’re not alone.

Also, relationships are a lot like friendships, but more intimate. It’s bland but it’s true.

And you close the tag with </blockquote>

Ithiliana
9 years ago

@Chris: I also don’t want to go through life alone,

You have no family? You have no friends (offline OR online?) You have no people you hang out with because it’s fun? You have no people you do things with, ditto? You have no people you discuss srs business of life with? There is nobody in your life at all?

And if that is so, do you really think a relationship with ONE person will solve this issue–i.e. while I have never married (and honstly, never wanted to, seeing what marriage meant when I was growing up in the 50s and 60s, it was like holy shit no way, even more when I saw the ‘giving birth film”), I have a lot of friends who are married (and divorced) (and remarried)….a LOT since I’m an outlier. And the most stifling, horrible, ghastly relationships (and I’m not even talking physical abuse here) were those in which the husband needed his wife to provide everything for him–all major emotional work. Who would want to do that for somebody else?

Ithiliana
9 years ago

Ninja’d by Rutee! TWICE!

princessbonbon
9 years ago

I don’t disagree but I would rather date someone instead of just losing my virginity randomly. Although I do worry that i’m going to end up an older virgin if I don’t do lose it soon. There are guys on love-shy.com that are in their 30s or even 40s who are still virgins.

Serial devirginizer here. I have been the first for 13 guys, including two who were in their 30s at the time they finally had a first hug, kiss, oral gratification, and sex. In one case, he was that way because he never went anywhere or did anything. The other case, he was too shy to even say hi to a woman. His brother nagged him to post an online profile and as soon as I showed interest in him he got a bunch of other hits. And my best friend is still waiting until he gets married before he has sex and is now in his thirties.

You have a few options here-you can decide that sex is a nice thing to one day have and just go forth to do lots of stuff you find fun without expecting sex and maybe it will eventually involve a lady friend because people do like to date those who they have interests in common with. You can also point out to the friends that you never pick up on the clues-women are not mind readers and they may not be aware that they have to be standing nude in front of you yelling “I WANT TO FUCK YOUR BRAINS OUT NOW” before you can maybe think “hmm, is this person interested in having sex with me?”

Or, if the thing is to see if you can get over the initial shyness by having the mystery taken out of sex by having it-you can hire a prostitute (if you live in an area where that is legal) I have had friends who lost theirs that way and there is nothing wrong with that because they had a good first time experience that got them through the Mystery Of Sex.

Or you can try meeting someone online where the expectation is strictly sex (like with Adult Friend Finder) if the idea is to just have one sexual encounter to get past it. But bear in mind that it is a crapshoot and there is no guarantees.

If you do want a relationship though-do the first one. It is the best way to do that because it gives you something to talk about and talking is mildly important.

Chris
Chris
9 years ago

Ithilina: The “Quasi-Eugenics” user was a single person on the site. I think he had some success and ended up leaving the site.

Princess Bonbon said “Or, if the thing is to see if you can get over the initial shyness by having the mystery taken out of sex by having it-you can hire a prostitute (if you live in an area where that is legal)”

You know, it is legal not far from me. I live in arizona which is not far from nevada. But I decided against doing it. My main reason why is because I’m worried that if I get a girlfriend down the road after I did it i’d worry what she would think of me and I wouldn’t want to lie either I don’t think that’s right to do.

So yeah i’d rather try it on my own, even if it might take a lot of work to overcome my social anxiety or whatever else I might have to do.

princessbonbon
9 years ago

You know, it is legal not far from me. I live in arizona which is not far from nevada. But I decided against doing it. My main reason why is because I’m worried that if I get a girlfriend down the road after I did it i’d worry what she would think of me and I wouldn’t want to lie either I don’t think that’s right to do.

I understand if you do not want to do the prostitute thing but never say never.

I live in Arizona though and I would say it is possible to get laid by a woman here even if you are currently a virgin. Just takes time so go with the first option.

Ithiliana
9 years ago

@Chris: yeah, I read around a bit just out of curiosity (after tornado warning earlier, I feel like should be on vacation rather than grading papers). I’m sure most aren’t as nasty as the ones David F. linked to–but you know, he links to misogynistic stuff. He hasn’t done a lot of posts on Love Shy, not compared to the REALLY shitty sites, so I’m wondering why you felt you had to somehow speak up and defend the site.

cloudiah
9 years ago

@Ithiliana I hope you’re not in any danger. For that matter, I hope no manboobzers are in danger! I live in earthquake country, but nothing terrifies me more than tornadoes.

Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

I think 21’s a bit young to be considering desperation measures. Go to a sex worker if you think it’ll be fun or it’ll get a weight off your chest, but not because you feel like it’s your last resort. LOTS of people aren’t getting laid at 21, it’s not a crisis.

(I don’t think being a virgin at 31 is necessarily a crisis either, but it’s less common. Being a virgin at 21 is downright normal.)

Ithiliana
9 years ago

@Cloudiah: Thanks, we’re fine! We work in Commerce, TX which was one of the towns in the path–and today I had a doctor’s appointment in the east part of Dallas–luckily we heard the news, came home early, and when we realized (tracking it through NOAA radio, Weather Channel, and Weatherbug on my Droid) that our home was in area, we boxed cats up in carriers, and took cover in hallway and inner wall of bedroom (I had Katie the rescue dog with me, my partner had the other two). It was over in about an hour or so–it was fairly major, but we were on the edge. I’m just going to go see if there’s any news about whether Commerce was hit or not (the picture of the major tornado–there was one big one and multiple smaller ones) tossing tractor trailer trucks up into the air like playtoys was scary. I agree–I think tornadoes are scarier than earthquakes (though I’ve never been through a big earthquake, just little ones).

We’re fine, though having an 83.5 (she’s lost 9 pounds!) chocolate lab trying to lie on top of me while I was on floor near carriers with two extremely loud complaining cats (and have a bad back) was…..complicated. I finally talked her into her dog bed right by my head. The cats, however, did not stop complaining at being caged (proving all men and women shriek their heads off when you put them in a carrier during a tornado warning!) (our biggest fear is that if something bad hit, the animals would be lost–ok, well, probably biggest fear is we’d be dead but after that lost animals).

MollyRen (@MollyRen)
9 years ago

I just want to chime in and say YES, BEING A VIRGIN IN YOUR EARLY 20s IS OKAY! 😀 It’s totally normal (heck, that’s when I hadn’t had sex yet) and you still have YEARS ahead of you to meet people and do awesome stuff. 🙂

LBT
LBT
9 years ago

RE: Chris

I had sexual contact earlier than you… but it was very much non-consensual, so not very useful. My general rule is: if people give a shit about that, they aren’t worth hanging around with.

Fortunately, I have many asexual friends (I’m on the spectrum myself) which demystifies the concept of having not had sexual contact with someone. I mean, it’s an activity you do. It is given a ton of cultural baggage, and it can be immensely personally meaningful… but it can also be utterly uninteresting.

Sorka
Sorka
9 years ago

My current partner didn’t have sex until he was in his early 20s and I know many others for whom the same is true. I was 19, but I actually wish I’d waited a bit longer, as the whole thing seemed like a huge let-down. I think I’d invested a lot into the concept of “virginity” and how important it was.

I have also been celibate for years in the past — the crucial thing then was to maintain relationships with friends and family.

Sometimes it’s more about wanting to be touched than to actually have sex, but I guess everyone’s different that way.

Viscaria
Viscaria
9 years ago

Yeah, to agree with LBT, sex isn’t always the best thing in the world. When I first started having sex, it only complicated my relationship and my life. My first few PIV experiences were quite painful, which was pretty bad in and of itself, but was made even worse because I worried it proved there was something wrong with me. Had I stayed a virgin so long that I would never be able to enjoy sex? Would this make me such a terrible lover that no one would want to sleep with me again? What kind of freak was I? Then I realized that I, shy, inexperienced thing, was going to have to talk to my partner about all of this, which was incredibly hard for me to do at the time. If you’re already pretty uncomfortable talking to other people, talking about something that private and taboo is not going to be easier. And, as it turns out, everybody has to talk about sex when they’re having it, even if there’s no pain involved.

pecunium
pecunium
9 years ago

Chris: Sex is nice. It’s not the most important thing. Romance is nice too, but it’s not the most important thing.

I’ve been abstinent, by choice some, but mostly because no one in whom I was interested was interested back. I know lots of people who are/were virgins well into their later 20s, or even into their thirties, Some into (I’m pretty sure) their forties.

The one’s who obsessed about it, had much less happy lives and they ended up waiting longer. I think the real thing is the value the society puts on it. Viscaria hit on some of that. Movies make it worse. The mood lighting, the glow in the next scene. Sometimes that happens: sometimes. Sometimes is just a thing. I have had waltzes which were better than lots of the sex I’ve had.

I’ve had moments with my camera which were better than lots of the sex I’ve had. I know it sounds trite, but if you stop looking, you’ll do better at finding.

As to the “using money to ‘solve the problem'”, I know a couple of people who’ve done that. If you want to, it’s a way. From reports, spend the money to have some time. Talk to her, treat her like a person, and it will be better.

But that’s all I have to say. It’s a judgement call. Treat her like a person, and it’s all good. Which is pretty much the rule for sex anyway.

darksidecat
9 years ago

I like sex and I haven’t gotten laid in a very long time. Guess what, I haven’t started spewing vile about all of humanity (I’m bi…) because of it and don’t think it would be justified if I did. It’s bigotry to think that about half the fucking human population is responsible and accountable for seeing you have sex because of their gender. Thinking that women aren’t individuals and that they owe men special consideration is total bullshit.

Kendra, the bionic mommy
Kendra, the bionic mommy
9 years ago

@Ithiliana, I’m glad to hear you’re okay after the TX tornadoes! I understand how scary it is, since I was in the Joplin tornado last year. You’re right that it is very scary to just all of a sudden have everything around you completely leveled. I saw the footage of your tornado on the TV, and it reminded me of what we went through last year. I know it’s expensive, but if you can afford it you might want to consider buying a storm shelter. A hallway or interior room is better than nothing, but it isn’t enough for an EF3 or greater tornado. We just passed a school bond issue yesterday to rebuild the Joplin schools to have FEMA approved storm shelters. As a parent, I do not want my child crouching in a hallway if another mile wide monster twister should happen again. If you watch the surveillance videos from Joplin High, it shows that hallways become wind tunnels full of debris and are very dangerous.

We’re fine, though having an 83.5 (she’s lost 9 pounds!) chocolate lab trying to lie on top of me while I was on floor near carriers with two extremely loud complaining cats (and have a bad back) was…..complicated. I finally talked her into her dog bed right by my head. The cats, however, did not stop complaining at being caged (proving all men and women shriek their heads off when you put them in a carrier during a tornado warning!) (our biggest fear is that if something bad hit, the animals would be lost–ok, well, probably biggest fear is we’d be dead but after that lost animals).

I have a sad story about one of my neighbors and her dog. I’m not talking about the neighbor that died, but the neighbor on the other side of my house that survived. Anyway, she ran to her back door to call her dogs in right before the tornado hit. Two came in, but one wouldn’t. She realized the twister was too close to wait, though, so gave up and got under a mattress in her hall just in the nick of time. The back of her house was sucked away, but it was so dark she could barely tell what was even happening. After it was over, the dog was nowhere to be seen. She never found him either, although many missing animals were recovered or adopted out. She felt bad to give up on him, but in the end she did what she had to do to survive herself. I feel so bad for her.

Chris
Chris
9 years ago

@ Darksidecat

“Guess what, I haven’t started spewing vile about all of humanity”

Guess what? Neither have I. Nor about women for that matter. Are you just assuming that I do because of the reputation of the website I come from?

You can call me a bigot or anything you want to call me. I know what I am and what i’m not.

Have I been frustrated about it? Sure. Frustrated about how difficult it for me. Frustrated because I have no idea what to say to a woman. I have social anxiety and I’m probably boring. On the dating sites I can never think of anything interesting to say in the first messages, which is probably why I never get any responses. And I have no idea how I can fix it, which gets frustrating. I admit what my faults are and I don’t blame anyone for them.

M Dubz
M Dubz
9 years ago

The shit in the OP is SO INCREDIBLY FRUSTRATING, mostly because feminism has expanded my mind so much about what healthy sexuality can look like. Virginity is totally okay, fine, and a normal state of affairs for many people (as is having LOTS of partners) but I don’t know if I’d have been able to break out of the mind set that you date some in college, have sex with only people you are in serious relationships with, and then get married, if it weren’t for feminism. I know people who have had 3-ways before PIV, asexual people, people in non-monogamous relationships, queer people, kinky people, everything under the sun. The amount of variety in sexual relationships is amazing and thrilling, and it has taken feminism to clue me into that.

@Chris- You say you can “never think of anything interesting to say” on dating sites. Here’s some advice; ask them questions. Is there a book on their profile that you’ve been meaning to read? Did they study abroad in Thailand? Do they mention tae-kwon do as an interest, and you’re looking for a new place to train? Asking people about their lives and interests is a great way to start a conversation, and when I am online dating, I GREATLY prefer an approach that shows someone has read my profile and has common interests with me, than someone using a generic charming pick-up line.