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Men’s Rights Redditors take on racism. By which they mean a white dude admitting that white dudes aren’t actually oppressed

Gold Medalist, Oppression Olympics

Over on the Men’s Rights subreddit, the locals are pig-biting mad about racism. Are they organizing vigils for murdered black teen Trayvon Martin? Are they challenging the Hunger Games fans who are sending out racist tweets complaining about the character “Rue” being played by a black actress?

Nope. They are doing something much, much braver. They are taking on a white dude for mocking other white dudes who are convinced they are the truly oppressed.

Over on the Boston Magazine web site, blogger Barry Nolan sets forth this truly hateful argument:

I have been a white male all my life and to tell you the truth, I have found it to be a pretty sweet deal. … Wherever you look and by almost any metric, any statistic, it works out to be a pretty sweet deal to start out life as a white male. …

So I cannot, for the life of me, understand why so many white men like me can be found whining about how tough it is to be a white man. It’s a mystery to me how they came to feel so beset on every side by feminists, minorities, and “the system.” When in fact, the system is so stacked in our favor, it’s almost embarrassing.

On the Men’s Rights subreddit a post blasting Nolan as a “racist idiot” now boasts 90 upvotes. In the comments, the brave antiracists set poor Nolan straight on a thing or two. To Ellwood78, it’s just a big coincidence that most of the powerful figures in the US happen to be white dudes:

NoNoJCM, meanwhile, reports on his own bitter experience as one of the oppressed:

Irrel_M is apparently a Stephen Colbert fan who isn’t in on the joke:

To paraphrase Sojourner Truth, “ain’t I a white dude?”

Note: This post incorporates some

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pillowinhell
12 years ago

Holy crap did Nolan ever get a response from the MRA!

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
12 years ago

@ Morgan

One of the tweets was tagged “sticktothebook”. So yeah, apparently they did read it, they just somehow managed to skim over all physical descriptions of the character. You’d think “dark brown skin” would be fairly clear, but apparently not.

Totally post-racist society here, folks. We really should stop pointing out to people like the guys in the OP that they have racial privilege. It hurts their feelings.

(Oh, for a sarcasm font.)

darksidecat
12 years ago

Poor black people expecting poor white people to treat them with respect and decency, and to not throw them out of the lifeboat at the slightest of waves aren’t the fucking problem when it comes to class solidarity, racist white people are the problem. White racists choosing race privilege over class solidarity and choosing to be okay with racialized classism and classism as long as it keeps them one step above poor people of color are the fucking divisive ones.

Also, poor white people are not oppressed at all on their race. They are oppressed on their income class, and, even then, less so than black people of similar income class (white people have better higher prospects, better educational access, less discrimination in criminal justice and welfare systems, etc. even though all poor people get a shit deal in all of these areas).

“it just makes the white folk Heroic Privileged Rescuers who must put aside their own interests”

If you have an “interest” of promoting racism and oppression of black people*, you’re a fucking racist and black people have good reason for not wanting to work with you, as you are actively planning to harm them.

*All white people benefit materially from the white supremacist system, but a willingness to keep benefits gained through oppression and suffering of people of color to the extent where you think white privilege is an “interest” that you can’t give up to work in solidarity with other people is fucking hugely racist.

BlackBloc
BlackBloc
12 years ago

>>white men have no right to complain about being oppressed because they belong to the same gender and race as most of the rich and powerful

Pretty sure the only people saying that are conservative’s straw-leftists.

cloudiah
12 years ago

If you have an “interest” of promoting racism and oppression of black people*, you’re a fucking racist and black people have good reason for not wanting to work with you, as you are actively planning to harm them.

Upvoted, if only I could.

makomk
makomk
12 years ago

@Rutee Katreya: so how do you explain the fact that it’s specifically black men that are imprisoned in hugely disproportionate numbers in the US – can they be oppressed for being male in a way that white men cannot, or is their gender meant to be irrelevant despite the obvious gender-based difference? (Of course, the former explanation runs into a slight problem – men in general are more likely to get imprisoned and get longer sentences, both generally and compared to women who’ve committed the same crimes.)

How about one that’s doesn’t involve race: pretty much all unemployed poor folk are blamed for the fact that they’re unemployed, but men – and only men! – get imprisoned as punishment based on a variant of this which calls poor unemployed fathers “deadbeat dads” who are maevolently cheating their kids out of the money they need to live on. Where does this fit in, if men cannot be oppressed for being men?

BlackBloc, I direct you to the post immediately above yours by darksidecat arguing that impoverished white folks who aren’t willing to give up their “white privilege” of not being even more badly screwed over are “fucking hugely racist”.

BlackBloc
BlackBloc
12 years ago

@makomk: Thanks for proving my point.

I direct you to “learn basic reading comprehension”. Also, I direct you to “bite me”.

2-D Man
2-D Man
12 years ago

Also, the reason the average male dummy is male is because men drive more and are therefore more likely to get into car crashes.

You were given the answer and you still got it wrong.

Scooby Doo on Zombie Island
Scooby Doo on Zombie Island
12 years ago

Honestly, I can understand why some people might take offense to the article. Especially with obnoxious lines such as “life is like T-ball” or whatever. No one likes to be told they’ve been given a free ride, it’s human nature… especially if their lives haven’t in fact been all fun and games. But the way I think of it is, white men are advantaged [em]qua[/em] white men. This doesn’t mean individual white men don’t have their own problems… obviously, they could be poor, or homosexual, or transgendered. Or they might have even more individualized disadvantages like depression, health issues, low self-esteem, or whatever. But these problems [em]aren’t[/em] related to being white.

For example, I have a minor disability, and that’s a legitimate problem I have to deal with. There are certain things I will never be able to do. But it’s not related to my being white or male- both of which (generally) confer an advantage.

I think he could have worded the article in a different way, and I can see how some of the MensRights guys could have a negative reaction to it, especially if they themselves have gone through some bad things. But I don’t think he’s wrong, necessarily.

Rutee Katreya
12 years ago

@Rutee Katreya: so how do you explain the fact that it’s specifically black men that are imprisoned in hugely disproportionate numbers in the US –

Ignorance. Specifically, yours; you think women’s prisons are representative of race somehow?

, both generally and compared to women who’ve committed the same crimes.)

Because they have more priors and fewer extenuating circumstances, on average. It’s only evidence of oppression if you have evidence that an equivalent number of crimes are actually being committed (Such as various studies on black ‘crime’; Even though white people make up a majority of the population, and are far more likely than black or latino men to do drugs individually, black and latino men make up the majority of possession convictions)

but men – and only men! – get imprisoned as punishment based on a variant of this which calls poor unemployed fathers “deadbeat dads”

THis is fiction. The only way to go to jail for those laws is to fail to keep the courts appraised of your employment situation (And btw, pretending women never end up with child support? Classy).

The articles you fucking illiterates link on this say the same thing; they’re not going to jail for being unemployed. Those laws *all* base child support on income, and provide ample opportunity (Often many, many years) to inform the court of the change in employment situation or otherwise demonstrate an inability to pay. But if you don’t do that, the court has no choice but to assume unwillingness. And that simply can’t stand forever (They already provide several years to make your situation known, at the minimal payment level, which is what hte poor are at).

But we already know you’re a dishonest troll, because you actually made htis point, when the articles disprove themselves (Let alone a cursory glance at the laws involved)

Shadow
Shadow
12 years ago

BlackBloc, I direct you to the post immediately above yours by darksidecat arguing that impoverished white folks who aren’t willing to give up their “white privilege” of not being even more badly screwed over are “fucking hugely racist”.

Uhm yes. Poor white folk that have no intention of giving up their white privilege (either by not supporting, or actively arguing against, initiatives that attempt to correct the racism built within the system e.g. Affirmative Action), are alleviating their pain ON THE BACKS OF OUR FUCKING OPPRESSION, and they are no allies to any POC.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
12 years ago

Sigh. This is why I avoid having conversations about class in America. That thing you’re talking about where poor white men suffer discrimination and economic hardship? THAT IS CLASSISM. NO, SERIOUSLY, THAT IS WHAT’S GOING ON. AMERICA IS NOT A CLASSLESS SOCIETY, NO MATTER HOW MUCH PEOPLE WANT TO PRETEND THAT IT IS. THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT RACISM AND SEXISM ARE NOT ALSO ISSUES.

This announcement brought to you by a very weary and frustrated socialist.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
12 years ago

Sorry for the capslock explosion, btw. It was either that or lots of swearing.

felixBC
felixBC
12 years ago

Cotton Pony: I see you called “Travis” out for likely being “Kyle” and he promptly disappeared from that comment thread. I hope he leaves you alone.

Love Barry Nolan’s recent note, right after the huge chunk of copy pasta from Boycott American Woman’s “John Rambo”:

Dear Folks,

As you can see from the comments here – many of those who have responded to this piece are deeply disturbed individuals – irrational – filled with rage and seething with resentment about slights or events – real or imagined – they comment here – raving about a post that suggests it is unseemly to whine about being white and male. Not that it is wrong to be white and male – not that it is bad to be white and male – merely that whining about being white and male is really pretty silly given the reality that others face – day in and day out.

I hope their intemperate madness has not been too disturbing to some of you who simply wished to make an mild observation or comment of your own. But this does illustrates why the SPLC has begun putting some men’s rights groups on their list of hate groups to be monitored. It is disturbing -but I hope not dangerous – the phenomena is clearly deserving of our attention.

I hope some of these folks get the professional help they so clearly need. I thank you all for your comments and wish you well.

Sincerely,
Barry Nolan

But Nolan’s going to have a rough time with MRAs for a while, I should think. Maybe they’ll put him on register-her as a gender traitor. And, somehow, a racist.

Shadow
Shadow
12 years ago

It’s so willfully fucking obtuse. “White men as a group aren’t oppressed” “Well what about poor white men!!”, but the fact that they have to use poor as a qualifier is suddenly just a trivial quirk of the English language

felixBC
felixBC
12 years ago

Who’s the MRA in the video, by the way, “Ramzpaul”? Does he make appearances on MRA sites that any of you have read?

felixBC
felixBC
12 years ago

From twitter just now, retweeted by PZ:

Tanya ‏ @nerdette I am conducting a non-scientific survey of dude feminists. Can you spare 5 mins? http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/MZD5HLR #p2 #fem2

I’m not a dude, but maybe the ones here could fill out @nerdette’s survey?

Scooby Doo on Zombie Island
Scooby Doo on Zombie Island
12 years ago

Peter Andrew Nolan weighs in:

I DESPISE men like you Barry Nolan.

If I were to meet you in the street I would beat the living daylights out of you for publishing these lies.

Your lies will live forever on CAF. I hope your sons read how much you hate them.

Peter-Andrew: Nolan who is moving to Joschua-Brandon: Boehm because germans know what Nazis look like. They look like you. And they do not want the likes of you to happen again.

Lady Zombie
Lady Zombie
12 years ago

Sweet Crispy Zeus! Barry Nolan’s article sure attracted the collective shrieks of MRAs. His responses are cracking me up though. The guy has got a sharp wit.

Myoo
Myoo
12 years ago

@Rutee Katreya: so how do you explain the fact that it’s specifically black men that are imprisoned in hugely disproportionate numbers in the US –

Except that black women are also imprisoned in greater proportions than white women.
So:

Black men get arrested more than white men
+
black women get arrested more than white women
=
misandry!!!!

felixBC
felixBC
12 years ago

I do believe we have an MRAL sighting on the Barry Nolan article: Saurons Contact Lens:

Okay. That was really rude, and I apologize. To clarify, I’m 19 and in college, and yes I’m white and male and yes, I can admit that both of those traits give me advantages. But the baseless assertion that this means my life is “like T-ball” made me really angry. As I’ve said, this Barry guy doesn’t know me. I have my own problems and I really don’t appreciate them being trivialized. I’m bipolar, for example, and I also have major vision problems (like, not just in the get a pair of glasses sense).

I’m not saying that this means I’m the most downtrodden person in the history of the universe. And I do agree that white men are advantaged in those two areas. But the stuff about “T-ball” or whatever, I didn’t like that. I work hard.

A reference to height and we’ve got ourselves a match.

Hint: It’s not about you. It’s about groups in general doing better than other groups because of society’s built in advantages for certain traits. Much like being born on third and thinking you’ve hit a triple. Like being white, male, having enough access to funds to be in college, along with enough education to get you into said college. Wait, that’s four. Home run!

pillowinhell
12 years ago

I can’t believe the lengths MRAs will go to…

Even stranger are the men of color who join the MRA. All I can think is that perhaps they hope the white MRAs will drop the racism and be able to work with them for a mutually beneficial outcome.

We saw this happen in feminism, we’re still working the problems out…

Xanthë
12 years ago

felix, I was just about to say the same thing! I read SauronsContactLens’ 3 posts one after another in a row, and wondered, who does this sound like? The third comment also asks “Hey John Rambo, what happened to Zero Tolerance Man’s blog? That was the funniest thing I’ve seen this side of Borat” so that is a clear sign of association with Manosphere blogging.

felixBC
felixBC
12 years ago

And our dear departed troll goes to college in Boston, no? It’s old school week for MRAs in his local paper.

pillowinhell
12 years ago

You known if its B___ then that is just pathetic. Its natural to be upset at that age, when you realize that adult life doesn’t work out to be the fairy tale you thought it would and that your parents can’t always be there to make it easier..but still! So if this guy has the problems he has, its not like its something new. He didn’t just wake up short today and I have vision problems just shy of being declared legally blind. Fortunately glasses do help, and technology can refine them to a point where the thickness isn’t going to break my nose. My glasses break and I’m fucked, because I will be legally blind since I can’t afford new ones. When will he get it through his head that being short is not a disability (unless he has a form of dwarfism)??