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Reddit MRA: My eminent businessman friend who is totally not made-up refuses to be alone in a room with a woman

This seems like a completely reasonable course of action:

Oh, by the way, I know a guy who’s a CEO of a Fortune 500 company, and he can fly and turn invisible.

Not at the same time, though. When he forgets and turns invisible while flying, he plummets to earth.

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Crumbelievable
Crumbelievable
9 years ago

FBI’s latest stats for false rape accusation was 8% of all allegations (as I recall)

Which would roughly match the numbers of most other studies about false accusations…

No one is denying that false accusations don’t ever happen or that they aren’t terrible. But when MRAs try to make it seem like nearly HALF of accusations are false (using one depely flawed study), it works to promote the ugly idea that women’s accustions shoulld be disregarded entirely. Even though most studies show that 90-something % of women who claim to have been raped are telling the truth.

Also, I’ve read enough MRA drivel to know that MRAs don’t even give a shit about women who have actually been raped. Talking about false accusations and furthering distrust of rape victims is just another way for them to, as Rebecca Watson put it, “shit on women”.

Joe
Joe
9 years ago

@Holly Pervocracy – gosh, if I was looking for help for men who suffer from rape in prison I certainly wouldn’t turn to this crowd. Look at the responses in this thread! I can’t imagine anyone of you giving a shit about any man*. So yeah, that’d be why you only hear about it in the form of a point in an argument.

(*More or less a universal for Anglosphere men. As we grow up men are taught that no-one will care about our suffering, e.g. “man up” and that showing weakness will simply lead to more suffering. So better shut the fuck up about it.)

@Rutee – way to miss the point. “Creepy” (in this context) is about judging someone by their looks, therefore = prejudice. Good looking people have been shown to acquire many advantages in life, “creepy” looking people get the opposite – e.g. a crowd of folks like you assuming they must have done something criminal.

As it stands it’s not sex neutral, as it’s almost always used by women on men. That’s changing too. Rest assured that a mini side project of men’s rights is raising awareness that women can behave in a “creepy” manner too, and should be called out on it. E.g. when women laugh about men’s genital mutilation that = “creepy” see the foulness that is Sharon Osborn.

Fighting for equality.

cloudiah
9 years ago

Oops, href fail there. Excessive linking!

Shadow
Shadow
9 years ago

E.g. when women laugh about men’s genital mutilation that = “creepy” see the foulness that is Sharon Osborn.

Uhm, no. That’s fucked up and evil. Creepy is the girl that grabs your ass as a greeting.

Wetherby
Wetherby
9 years ago

Joe:

The mob who attacked a PEDIATRICIAN’s house fortunately did not succeed in killing anyone.

That’s hardly surprising, since the mob in question seems to have been wholly imaginary.

The story seems to have grown out of an actual incident in which someone (presumably an individual someone) daubed graffiti over paediatrician Yvette Cloete’s front door either out of illiteracy or as a malicious joke, and a coincidentally concurrent cartoon in Private Eye showing someone fleeing a torch-bearing mob while screaming “I’m a paediatrician!”

More info here.

Rutee Katreya
9 years ago

Cloudiah: Although your reference doesn’t say what you want it to, I giggled a bit when unlike his very well cited statistics (Which he admits are meaningless), his hysterical claims about “The damage to reputation always being horrid” are, of course, absent citation XD

@Holly Pervocracy – gosh, if I was looking for help for men who suffer from rape in prison I certainly wouldn’t turn to this crowd. Look at the responses in this thread! I can’t imagine anyone of you giving a shit about any man

And yet, I’ve done more about rape in prison than pretty much any MRA ever, because I’ve been part of large – and real – campaigns on the matter. That’s the difference between thinking something is an actual problem in our society, and thinking of something as a way to score points on ideological enemies

So yeah, that’d be why you only hear about it in the form of a point in an argument.

No, it’s because you don’t do anything about it.

@Rutee – way to miss the point. “Creepy” (in this context) is about judging someone by their looks, therefore = prejudice.

No, creepy is far more about actions, demeanor, and words than looks, no matter how much you try to make it so. Robert Pattinson is pretty good looking, but it doesn’t change that Edward in Twilight – even the movies, where you can look at a pretty boy – is fucking creepy.

“creepy” looking people get the opposite – e.g. a crowd of folks like you assuming they must have done something criminal.

You’re mistaking ‘creepy’ for ‘ugly’.

abeegoesbuzz
abeegoesbuzz
9 years ago

@Holly Pervocracy – gosh, if I was looking for help for men who suffer from rape in prison I certainly wouldn’t turn to this crowd. Look at the responses in this thread! I can’t imagine anyone of you giving a shit about any man*. So yeah, that’d be why you only hear about it in the form of a point in an argument.

So, A: Joe, you’d be wrong in your imaginings, but also, B, are you really arguing that the reason why MRAs on their own MRA blogs only talk about prison rape is when they’re discussing hypothetical male prisoners convicted of a false rape accusation is because we here on Manboobz exist and we, um, wouldn’t care (or something)?

That’s weird.

Joe
Joe
9 years ago

@MollyRen – here’s how false accusation works to do harm, and why men are so leery about it:

False accusation of e.g. totally fictional sex assualt made to cops – it can be some time after the fact so there’s no forensic, but police must still pursue allegation (I know actual conviction is less likely), description of fictional attacker circulated. Headlines in paper. Men who happen to match fictional attacker cuffed & hauled in for questioning, may be beaten (or shot) by cops. Time in jail on remand awaiting trial. Court / lawyer costs. Names smeared, jobs lost, families broken etc. etc. White knights, especially relatives go out hunting for fictional attacker, may find men who roughly meet description beat / stab / shoot / kill that men.

Eventually police work out accusation was a lie, no assault took place e.g. vid cam evidence of place and time accuser said it occurred, shows everything = ok (more likely in UK as we have CCTV cams up the wazoo). Police circulate withdrawl of manhunt – gets three lines bottom left of p.7 in newspaper. In UK false accuser might get a fine or short to medium jail sentence more likely a fine or community service for wasting police time.

i.e. convictions are not required to utterly trash some dudes life.

@Whoeveritwas – FRS / CotFA is basically a news aggregate. Every story links through to an original report in newspapers etc. the aggreator does not WRITE the report. You don’t have to read anything on the site other than the links to the reports, treat it as a transparent portal. That’s what I do. I read the original sources.
They’re actually currently working on moving to a “no commentary at all” policy, just pure news aggregation, hence the migration to CotFA, in response to the negativity of SPLC listing.

Kyrie
Kyrie
9 years ago

@Joe: creepy is not so much about the look as much as it is about the behavior. But we agree, women can be creepy too.

Joe
Joe
9 years ago

@rutee – which anti-prison rape campaign??

Rutee Katreya
9 years ago

That’s changing too. Rest assured that a mini side project of men’s rights is raising awareness that women can behave in a “creepy” manner too,

Judging by the second sentence, you’re not doing a bang up job of it.

and should be called out on it. E.g. when women laugh about men’s genital mutilation that = “creepy” see the foulness that is Sharon Osborn.

No, that’s not creepy, that’s horrible. What was creepy was the stalker lady in Ctrl-Alt-Del (I used to have shitty taste in webcomics). Learn to understand words.

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
9 years ago

@rutee – which anti-prison rape campaign??

Don’t you think it’s kind of fucked up that you accuseus of not caring about prison rape when you’ve clearly never heard of -let alone supported- Just Detention? (justdetention.org)

cloudiah
9 years ago

@Rutee — I just found it interesting that the author of that Forensic Examiner article, who obviously thinks “false rape” is a significant problem, admits that the 8% unfounded number is essentially meaningless.

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
9 years ago

Weird. Block quote fail.

Try again:

@rutee – which anti-prison rape campaign??

Don’t you think it’s kind of fucked up that you accuse us of not caring about prison rape when you’ve clearly never heard of -let alone supported- Just Detention? (justdetention.org)

Rutee Katreya
9 years ago

There was one I helped organize on my campus during my time when I was majoring in legal studies, for one. Yeah, I know, activists in college are annoying and all, but I tried to impress upon people – as part of a larger message that criminals are people – that rape of prisoners is neither funny nor just.

The fact that you can only talk about prison rape tells me you’re not really educated on the underlying problem, though (Which is part of how I know you, personally, have done jack and shit, since AFAIK there is literally nothing that focuses on just rape in prison, because *EVERYTHING* about USian prisons is wrong). The fact of the matter is that this is part of the larger narrative about criminals, how criminals are subhuman and don’t deserve consideration. If you want to fight this, it’s improbable you’ll do so well by just focusing on rape, because there is an (abstract) understanding in society that rape is wrong. The problem is that people think that it’s okay to do wrong things to prisoners.

Crumbelievable
Crumbelievable
9 years ago

White knights, especially relatives go out hunting for fictional attacker, may find men who roughly meet description beat / stab / shoot / kill that men.

Can you show me enough cases of this happening to prove that it’s a real phenomenon? We’ve all heard this scare tactic from MRAs time and time again but we don’t believe any of it.

Rutee Katreya
9 years ago

Ahahaha, I get to eat crow. My mistake!

@Nobinayamu: See above. I could totally believe it, if you know, he cared about more of what prisoners face. But, you know, he don’t. He doesn’t care at all. It’s just a device to score points on ideological opponents. Which is getting to be a thorn in my side.

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
9 years ago

Rutee, I agree with you completely. Just Detention is an international organization doing unbelievably important work and could really use the support of people who claim to care about prison rape. Now, go check out the “Boob Roll”. Take a quick glance and see how many of those blogs list or link to the organization’s site.

I’ll wait…

abeegoesbuzz
abeegoesbuzz
9 years ago

Just Detention is an amazing group, but of course there are other ways of supporting a non-abusive environment in prisons. I’ve been an advocate for rape victims for several years, and we’ve finally got the go-ahead to enter our county’s prison and jail to serve rape and sexual assault victims there.

Not like Joe has to support this cause with money and time, but boy would it be awesome if some MRA accusing us of hating men actually did more work supporting his pet issues than we do.

Shadow
Shadow
9 years ago

Fighting for equality.

Sheeit, if that’s all it takes to be fighting for equality, I’ve been fighting since I was a preteen. Where’s MY parade?!!!!

Lady Zombie
Lady Zombie
9 years ago

You know, I’ve had sex that I regretted but it has never, not once, crossed my mind to cry rape afterwards. All the women I know have never cried rape as a way to punish, or because they regretted having sex with a particular dude, or for any other reason. Not only that, all the men I know have never been accused of raping a woman who regretted having sex with them.

Surely if woman running around crying rape when they weren’t raped is so common, surely I would have noticed it by now, right? I mean, it’s just statistics.

I’m not saying it doesn’t happen. But it’s not as common as these guys want us to believe.

Also, pointing out a man and saying “he raped me” isn’t enough to throw some hapless guy into the clink for years.

And do I need to mention the backlog of rape kits that are collecting dust? Yeah, the women those were taken from really succeeded in ruining some guy’s life.

All this false rape bullshit is really insulting to one’s intelligence.

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
9 years ago

Can you show me enough cases of this happening to prove that it’s a real phenomenon? We’ve all heard this scare tactic from MRAs time and time again but we don’t believe any of it.

Let’s not forget, the ONLY possible reason that black men used to get lynched was that women kept falsely accusing them of rape! And it was always women (never white men!) And it was all totally color blind on the part of the mobs! Racism played no part, hence it MUST have been sexism against men that did it! Etc.

Totally legit!

pillowinhell
9 years ago

Ack Schroedingers Rapist..

Okay, so this guy doesn’t feel safe around women, fine hire a staffer to go everywhere you do unless your family is present. The very wealthy often hire personal bodyguards and staff so I’m sure it won’t be noticed. I’m sure there are ways to structure the normal everyday business meetings and such that a persons fears can be allieviated.

Schroedingers rapist is an idea that long predates feminism. It isn’t particularly well thought out, because its a series of happenstances and peoples thoughts about what went wrong, over a long period of time. That list is getting mighty lengthy these days and includes all the new technology women use that might put them in contact with strange men. Including phones, emails, chatrooms, online shopping, text messaging and blogs. It also includes all the old stuff about being out in public spaces, meeting new people (esp men) time of day, what may be consumed, appropriate places a woman may go, how to manage her dating life, how to live in her own home , how to dress, and I’m sure I haven’t got it all.

What women are not taught is how to assess various scenarios so they can feel more comfortable living their lives. The Rapist theory focusses on strangers, which detracts attention from the fact that women more often than not have already vetted a man, came to trust him and then were assaulted. Its the people wew know and love we have most to fear from.
Its ironic that stranger danger is so heavily taught to women, when from what I’ve read (and I’m no expert but the DOJ has stats I’ve looked over) men are most likely to be targeted by violent strangers or people they might only know by sight or name.
The answer to this is to make sure both genders get accurate info about crime and how to assess individual situations. Also to assess individual people for risk factors for violence or abusive behaviours. Stats will not peg out any given individual but you may find yourself able to interact with those waving red flags in a way that helps to protect you rather than them.

Ideally we could rid ourselves of all types of predators, but its a lot of work and the victim blaming that the stranger danger theory is also used for is really slowing things down.

Xeginy
9 years ago

I don’t know how it is in the U.K., but I know here in the U.S., cops don’t go on hunts for suspected rapists. I would know; though I’m not a cop, I am a sexual assault advocate. If a victim wants to make a report, but it’s been more than 72 hours after the attack, then there can be no physical evidence to collect (fluids and hair and such). Yes, they can make a report, but you have to realize that the media does not write a story on every single report of every crime. Unless either the victim or the accused is high-profile, or the crime was especially heinous (victim was a child, it was a gang-rape, etc.) then it never actually makes it to the newspaper. And when I go to work, I hear “All my friends and family won’t talk to me since I accused [name] of raping me. They’re all on [name]’s side. I feel so alone.” I have to yet to hear a story where a woman accused someone of rape and not only was she completely supported by her community, but the accused rapist was ostracized. That doesn’t happen. It doesn’t happen with sexual assault, and it doesn’t happen with domestic violence, either. You’re so full of shit, Joe.

Wait. I already know this, and Joe here probably isn’t going to care. Why, oh why do I interrupt important studying time to feed trolls? They’re not even as cute as ducks.

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
9 years ago

Ducks are way better than trolls in every way. Throw bread at trolls and ducks, see who is more grateful. I REST MY CASE.

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

The latter is part of wide spectrum male disposability.

Not THIS shit again, Joe.

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
9 years ago

hellkell, you laugh, but would you believe how many haploid males get disposed of in wads of tissue every day?? It’s horrible!

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

Bagelsan, I forgot. WON’T SOMEONE THINK OF THE HAPLOIDS?

Bostonian
9 years ago

So are we sure that Joe is not MARL, yet again, proving that he has no life?

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
9 years ago

Luckily, female-produced haploids are being well-protected, thanks to laws aimed at banning birth control! Yaaay… -_-

Hershele Ostropoler
9 years ago

I’ve seen that before.

I want to say it was a Miss Manners column, reprinted in a book years ago, though that would imply MRAs would take etiquette advice, and from a woman besides. In any event, the specific sentence “if a women is in his office, the door will remain open, with his assistant as witness” looks extremely familiar.

Ithiliana
9 years ago

Yeah, Joe’s theory of male disposability is ringing a bell! An MRALish bell.

Ithiliana
9 years ago

Andie: It is quite common to see male students and professors sitting together in the pub or cafeteria, but a male prof would have to be mad to ever take a female student out for a beer to discuss methodology or theory. Even a hint of impropriety can derail a professor’s career. I admit that even I shy away from anything less than totally public, formal interactions with female students, particularly the ones who come to class half-naked.

I’m not sure where you and your husband teach, but I’m a faculty brat (born in 1955 to a professor who became dept. head and Dean when I was in graduate school), professional student (kept taking graduate degrees because it was hard to find a job, so multiple schools, etc), then took my doctorate and have worked 19 years at a small university in NE Texas.

The blurring of the boundaries between student/faculty member back when most were men (i.e. hanging out at pubs together, bringing male student home for dinner that wife fixed because godforbid there were many women faculty, let alone any who dared bring home male students, etc.) were common in the US in the 195s, 1960s, etc. Things did begin to change when more women were being admitted, and there are still some hangovers from that tradition–recent debate about The APA’s (American Philosophical Association)’s “Smoker” (http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2011/12/12/women-job-candidates-philosophy-appalled-smoker) make that clear. (Philosophy btw in the US at least is still the most sexist and racist of the humanities.)

I remember being a grad student under such circumstances, before the regulations against sexual harassment were instituted, and the bullshit that went on at professors’ houses and in such “social” circumstances.

With power inequalities, ‘socializing’ between faculty and grad students (especially) has to be handled carefully–the fact that some faculty are treating male students differently than female and somehow blaming the women (omg they are half naked! they dress whatever), and the changes that have led to some (very) flimsy protections against sexual exploitation of graduate students (a very vulnerable population esp. in some disciplines and departments) pisses me the hell off.

I’m a faculty member. I’m a queer woman (and it’s fairly well known on my campus, well enough so that rude graffitti was written up in the women’s room accusing me of making a pass at an unnamed student). Amazingly enough, a report was made, the graffitti cleaned off, and my dept. head (woman) who has known me since we were hired together did not in fact throw me off campus and ruin my career (no doubt it’s my pussy pass privilege).

Generally speaking: I would not meet in my office with a student after hours or on a weekend (male or female); I’d meet with them in the library. I often meet with students, and the door is open (because it’s office hours); if a student is horribly upset or freaked out, then with their permission I close the door. I would never meet a student at a bar (not in the Bible Belt), nor would I have public meals with students–though I’ve gone out with a group. I wouldn’t students to our home (my partner is a woman, and a dept. head on campus) for many reasons (mostly, who wants to clean up all the cat hair). That is true of most of my faculty colleagues–and yet my dept. is known for close and good mentoring or ALL our students, male and female, through a variety of ways, including a grad student organization that invites faculty to speak to any who are interested; through faculty working with groups of students to help them submit to conferences, and get published (a lot of that gets done by email, btw, with drafts–I don’t have time to spend a lot of time meeting with individual students). I run a weekly support group for students working on their thesis or dissertations. I have at least ten office hours a week, and I have no problems with getting a group together to mentor on a topic (I gave a workshop on human subjects issues a few weeks ago). We do guest lectures in other faculty’s classes, and we have a welcoming reception and end of term reception for ALL faculty and ALL graduate students, and when we have candidates on campus, grad students are invited to all the events EXCEPT the committee interview (including the meals). So there are all sorts of opportunities that do not involve one/one interactions in a place where alcohol is sold or in a home.

If women students are being disadvantaged by the academic culture, the fault is in that culture, not in the students nor in the changes that came about because of very real issues (when I began my first MA degree, at the same program I got my BA, one of the two women faculty who kept her door locked after hours and on weekeneds when she worked because of male colleagues met with me privately–first time ever, despite a whole lot of mentoring–and warned me against specific male colleagues by name that she knew would make passes at me based on her observations of them in the past–several were on their second or third graduate student wife–ex-grad student, more appropriate to say. She was right to every single one. This was when the men took female students sexual availability as a job perk, and the private warning system she embodied was known among the faculty wives and wives of graduate students and the largely female staff at my dad’s university-the women looked out for each other, as best they could, and warned each other about the predators).

Joe
Joe
9 years ago

You’re all very much missing the point. You’re all busting an organ trying to convince me that false accusations of sex crime are not a problem for men. I’m not going to be convinced, because I know your assurances would be utterly useless to me, or any man, should the cops ever come kicking the door in. “But… but…. Holly and Molly and Rutee said this never happens!!” Nope. Not helping.

My point:
A great many men, (far more than those who are even aware of the existence of the ridiculously named “manosphere”) are very, very worried about this issue of pedo/sexcrime-hysteria. This is NOT something restricted to MRA-land or whatever you call it. It’s society wide, and gets more and more entrenched with every poster demonising men (e.g. NSPCC’s recent campaign) and every cry of “rape culture” (as though rape was somehow approved of, rather than greviously punished in the Anglosphere).

Manboobz tried to claim these men don’t exist. Yet even idon’trememberherhandle said she witnessed a bunch of men expressing their fear about this, and discussing their tactics to protect themselves from it.

This fear has CONSEQUENCES:

As I’ve pointed out upthread, (with links), already a little girl has DROWNED because a bloke was too scared of false accusation to help her when she got lost. Apparently no-one here cares!?! – not one of you has said anything about it. If any of you had bothered to read the linked articles you’d find that pretty much no men who heard about that tragedy were surprised that the bloke felt that way. That’s really fucking sad. And should worry, oooh, pretty much anyone who is sane, as an indicator that our society is in deep shit.

Men have fled teaching / mentoring of kids in droves. There are very few men in primary teaching in the UK for instance. Surely you can see that it’s a very bad thing for kids of both sexes not to have trustworthy, decent adults of both sexes in their lives? If not as parents, then at least as teachers / mentors / group leaders whatever?

These consequences will continue to get worse as the fear gets worse, as the hysteria / propaganda gets worses, as men become increasingly isolated from women and children. It’s a vicious cycle and it will damage prettty much everybody as it continues to ratchet up.

Bostonian
9 years ago

Yeah, it is MARL.

Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

Men are far more likely to be the victim of sexual violence than to be falsely accused of it. Worry about that.

…Except that all too often gets you worrying about kids and queer men and (non-false-accused) prisoners, and, you know, God forbid the men’s rights movement spare a single instant for any man who isn’t living the “my life is so hard, I won’t even get to golf this week” lifestyle.

Ithiliana
9 years ago

Someone mentioned Miss Manners: one of my fave writers. She has a lot to say about how ‘business’ events have to be different from (and understood as different from) social events with friends, and how the two should never mix (she’s usually talking more about corporate/business things, but I think there’s a lot that academics could learn from that).

Crumbelievable
Crumbelievable
9 years ago

MRAL must have a LOT of email accounts.

MollyRen (@MollyRen)
9 years ago

Ithiliana: yeah, there seems to be a LOT of confusion here as to what’s not a good idea because it’s just not professional, vs. what’s not a good idea because it violates personal boundaries. Taking a student to a bar might *not* violate their personal space, but it’s definitely not what I’d think of as professional.

Joe
Joe
9 years ago

And the societal disposability of men is not a “theory” it’s fact, certainly in Western cultures*. Only the deaf, dumb and blind could fail to see it.

During WWI while the suffragettes** were handing out white feathers and campaigning for conscription (in collusion with the ruling class / the 1%) nearly a million British men (and boys) – the majority of whom did not have the bloody vote either!! – were slaughtered in Flanders and the Somme. That’s male disposability, in a nutshell.

I could fill endless books with stats (99% of combatant deaths = men, 95% of work deaths = men, 80% of suicides = men, 90% of homeless= men) and examples current / modern and ancient (conscription, the pressgang) but it seems pretty redundant – just open your eyes!

(*Not so much in India and China – see the mass gendercide of female babies/infants out there, in response to mandated population reduction measures.

**Emmeline and Christabel Pankhurst were the warmongering ruling-class-collaborators who, inspired by Lord SomebodyOrOther, led the transformed suffragette / then White Feather movement to encourage / mandate male sacrifice to serve their own ends.
Sylvia Pankhurst, in contrast, gets honourable mention for taking a pacifist stance and allying herself and her suffragette group with the union movement. She became estranged from her mother and sister due to her stance.
It was Emmeline who got the fame, power and glory of course. There’s a statue of her in London. Winning is easy when you ally yourself with Kings and Lords and get the common man to serve your purpose.)

MollyRen (@MollyRen)
9 years ago

Not so much in India and China – see the mass gendercide of female babies/infants out there, in response to mandated population reduction measures.

I’d love to hear your theory as to why one gender is being targeted in this instance.

Wetherby
Wetherby
9 years ago

I don’t think Joe is MRAL – his writing style is quite different, and to my ear he sounds as though he genuinely is from my side of the Atlantic.

Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

Wait, the suffragettes were the same as the white feather women?

…What?

In what universe besides “paranoid, complicated, and increasingly self-referential MRA fantasies” does that make sense?

Next we’ll be hearing that the white feather suffragettes were all Titanic survivors.

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
9 years ago

Yeah… Women have been both accused and convicted of child abduction too.

Wouldn’t stop me from offering help to a toddler I saw wandering around a park/lake/city street.

But, hey, if you’re convinced that there’s a significant population of men who won’t help children because of the chances of false accusations, so be it. I’ve seen, and continue to see, men who help kids, work as teachers, volunteer with youth groups, etc.

Obviously, I have a much higher opinion of men than you do, Joe.

Ithiliana
9 years ago

Well, if JOE isn’t MRAL, he’s certainly every bit as boring and more so as MRAL!

Old, stale, talking points.

so, Joe, tell me what you think about hard library chairs: misandry or not?

Kyrie
Kyrie
9 years ago

More to the point, what do you think about heels, Joe? Especially for tall women. 🙂

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

MRAL is pathetic enough to try to sound like he’s from somewhere else.

Yes, Joe! We have it on good authority that your libraries across the pond are full of hard, misandric chairs. Tell us!

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

Joe, do women spit on you?

Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

I actually don’t think Joe is MRAL. MRAL might have the wit to throw a few “bloke”s in there, but he wouldn’t remember to “demonise” men or to refer to UK politics.

I don’t want to believe there’s more than one of these guys either, but sadly…