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actual activism antifeminism drama grandiosity hypocrisy misogyny MRA MRA paradox oppressed men reddit terrorism

Oh, Men’s Rights subreddit, will you ever learn? (Probably not.)

Sometimes I ask myself: what is it that I really hope to accomplish with this website, aside from entertaining myself and my readers, and exposing misogynist assholes for who they are. There’s a part of me that still hopes that someday, something I write will cause some misogynist and/or Men’s Rightser out there to develop a modicum of self-awareness, look at what they’ve been saying or doing, and say to themselves, “I’m really kind of a tool, aren’t I? Maybe I should stop.”

When the Southern Poverty Law Center report on the Men’s Rights movement came out, I hoped it might have a similar sort of effect. Or that, even if it didn’t persuade any MRAs out there that they were wrong, it might at least convince a few that they were going about things the wrong way. Nope. On the Men’s Rights subreddit, at least, it seems to have sent many of the regulars into an indignant tizzy, and they have doubled down on their peculiar brand of politics-by-whining-online.

Consider this post:

Yes, that’s right. Some Men’s Rights Redditors seem to think that the best way to convince the world that they’re not part of a hate group is to continue to celebrate a self-admitted child abuser who urged men to firebomb courthouses and police stations and kill people.

Then there’s this post, currently the top post on the subreddit:

Wow, if the Men’s Rights subreddit had anything to do with that, that would indeed be a victory. As one regular put it:

Thing is, I read r/mensrights pretty regularly, and I don’t remember any campaign there to protect the rights of fishermen in New Zealand.

Turns out that’s because the campaign, such as it was, consisted of one post some months back, which got all of 11 upvotes at the time. The current post in which r/mensrights congratulates itself for its “victory” has gotten, last I checked, 120 upvotes, more than ten times that. Simplecosine’s self-congratulatory comment in the new thread has gotten 36 upvotes. The comment in the original thread asking r/mensrightsers to send an email to the US Secretary of State’s office got … one upvote. In other words, only a handful of Men’s Rights Redditors even noticed the original post, much less sent along an email.

Reading one of the linked news articles makes clear the real reason the State Department opened an investigation: a six-month long, three-continent wide investigation by Bloomberg Businessweek revealing abuses in the industry.

The Men’s Rights subreddit: Taking Credit for Shit They Didn’t Do Since 2008.

And then there’s this post:

I’ve got nothing to say about this one — it’s basically self-refuting — except that I’m sort of bemused by the notion that the Southern Poverty Law Center is a “semi-women group.” Uh, what is that exactly? A group with some women in it? A group that doesn’t think women are all a bunch of evil bitches? The horror!

Oh, Men’s Rights movement. You’ll never change, will you?

EDITED TO ADD: And speaking of never changing, here’s how one Men’s Rights redditor responded to my comments there suggesting that maybe, just maybe, MRAs should actually denounce and distance themselves from someone calling for terrorism:

Let me just highlight that bit at the end again:

[T]he cost to the establishment to maintain the status quo in regards to divorce, custody, etc. must be made so high that it’s just no longer feasible. If that means instilling abject fear into the hearts of judges, cops and legislators by making them think their careers and/or lives could be forfeit unless they change their attitudes towards men, then so be it.

Trying to instill fear for one’s life in your opponents: that is the very definition of terrorism.

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Viscaria
Viscaria
9 years ago

Not to mention being rich and white and a whole host of other privileges contribute to how pretty you’re perceived to be.

LBT
LBT
9 years ago

Yeah, and rich, handsome black men still get to eat the shit sandwich that is racism. All the privileges intersect and interact with each other, but they tend not to cancel each other out.

AVT
AVT
9 years ago

There is also a dominant cultural narrative that when a straight white man makes it big, it’s his own individual success (based on merit); when anybody else makes it, it’s to satisfy a quota, or because of appearance/manipulation/etc.

This is BULLshit. I am the victim here, and I have dealt with so much shit your pampered mind couldn’t even cope. Goes for all of you.

Viscaria
Viscaria
9 years ago

Hmm. Is AVT posting from a real place, David?

I thought it was a little sketchy when he went full hate-on the moment Cassandra said something.

Shadow
Shadow
9 years ago

@Viscaria

yep yep

@LBT

That’s funny because I was going to say that Obama’s a good looking, rich black man, the motherfucking President, and he STILL gets to eat the shit sandwich of racism

This is BULLshit. I am the victim here, and I have dealt with so much shit your pampered mind couldn’t even cope. Goes for all of you.

Shadow
Shadow
9 years ago

I don’t know if it’d be worse to find out that this is just another incarnation of MRAL, or to find out that we just attracted another one.

LBT
LBT
9 years ago

RE: AVT

Really? You don’t know me at all, but you believe, with absolutely all certainty, you have dealt with more shit than me?

Part of me wants to take that bet, but most of me is just too sad.

ithiliana
9 years ago

@AVT: people here have answered your question, just as my original post does (relatively less privilege does not mean no privilege). In short, you’d do a lot better analyzing your own privilege than claiming that women have it, etc.

But, no, I see you’re now claiming you are the victim, and we’re all pampered–which, again, shows how fucking little you know about people here.

True colors: Troll.

I’m done here — you’re not worth spending time on, and you clearly do not want to discuss anything except how much you personally have suffered, and how much women have privilege

Fuck off, TrollDude.

LBT
LBT
9 years ago

I don’t even get it. Of COURSE women have privilege. EVERYONE has privilege, because the only people without privilege are DEAD. I thought everybody knew that.

Is AVT mad because some classes of people have different kind of privileges, or feeling that by having privilege invalidates any suffering he’s suffered or what? O_o

katz
9 years ago

An attractive woman still has opportunities that unattractive women don’t have. Can you explain to me how this is not a privilege?

Because it’s a tradeoff. Attractive women are assumed to be less intelligent and don’t get taken as seriously as plain women. There’s no corresponding disadvantage for attractive men.

katz
9 years ago

Dammit, this conversation is going way too fast. I’m going to go give a shelter dog a bath.

Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

MRAL’s getting better at faking, but I’ll never understand why he bothers. Either he doesn’t get to say stuff that he really believes–in which case why bother?–or he says stuff that he believes and everyone disagrees with him.

He seems to think that there must be SOME secret way to get us to admit that men who don’t get laid are the REAL victims. He’s not good with “no means AIN’T GONNA HAPPEN,” this kid.

Dracula
Dracula
9 years ago

There is also a dominant cultural narrative that when a straight white man makes it big, it’s his own individual success (based on merit); when anybody else makes it, it’s to satisfy a quota, or because of appearance/manipulation/etc.

This is BULLshit. I am the victim here, and I have dealt with so much shit your pampered mind couldn’t even cope. Goes for all of you.

Funny thing about this is, it looks to me like you’re claiming no one dismisses women’s struggle to succeed by… dismissing women’s struggle to succeed.

ithiliana
9 years ago

@Shadow: Yep, I’m just waiting for the “I’m so ugly women spit on me,” or the “I am a short many therefore OPPRESSED,’ rhetoric to come out. Nothing new here, but he did actually name some feminists that most people don’t know about, even though he doesn’t appear to have learned much from reading them (or what he read of them).

But other than that, typical Troll (aka: “I want to discuss feminism with you all as long as you’ll admit I the white man am the TWUE victim here.)

Viscaria
Viscaria
9 years ago

@Shadow, I hope he’s new, because every time MRAL shows up, it makes us all more paranoid that he’ll show up again. I’d love it if he’d stay away long enough that we stop worrying about him. I’d rather have 10 new AVT-types, frankly.

katz
9 years ago

I am the victim here, and I have dealt with so much shit your pampered mind couldn’t even cope.

*Facepalm*

David, you’re supposed to be screening these people.

Dracula
Dracula
9 years ago

He did jump into the “Cassandra is privileged princess!” routine fairly early on in the conversation, I noticed.

ithiliana
9 years ago

@Holly: Hmm, usually MRAL and his socks never talk to me — so I didn’t think it was him. But the focus on Cassandra, and the “pampered” (not princess but still) do ring a faint MRAL-ish type of bell. Will be interesting to see what David says about his location.

Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

It’s funny though, in the process of his idiot persistence MRAL’s learned a lot of social justice terminology and concepts. Way more than the average “privilege means all men are rich!” troll. But he sees these concepts just as tools to use to manipulate us.

It’s a shame, because he could to so much with that knowledge.

ithiliana
9 years ago

Any bets on the “I don’t know MRAL but have read some of his posts on X and he seems perfectly reasonable” post coming from AVT, or do you think he learned his lesson the last time he tried that?

Also: AVT?

A Veritable Troll?

Amnesia
Amnesia
9 years ago

Sociology class?

Shadow
Shadow
9 years ago

I can’t think of any other explanation that won’t cause my mind to fry! If this isn’t MRAL, then we literally have no back story here to even compare ours to, so that breakdown would just be bizarre

Kyrie
Kyrie
9 years ago

Obviously, it is easier to be “pretty” is you have money (for pretty clothes, hair dresser, make up, etc), time and skills (make up, etc).

LBT
LBT
9 years ago

Jeesh. I haven’t even TALKED to this MRAL guy, and now I kinda want to meet him, since apparently he lives near me. I’ve known a good number of cis guys like him; until he tells me that my being raped is better than his still being a virgin, he ain’t the worst I’ve met.

I know it’s a stupid impulse, but I guess I’m still kinda boggled by people like him.

ithiliana
9 years ago

David: Maybe he’s on spring break (I am, and should go to work and grade papers but am ignoring it ahahahahah), so has time to prep more.

I’m still bemused by Mags’ Wicked Witch of the West routine……..

Bostonian
9 years ago

I have a feeling that he thinks if he says unreasonable things in a “rational” way then magically we will agree with him or something.

Kyrie
Kyrie
9 years ago

LBT: you would be unlikely to be targeted by MRAL, since you’re not a pampered princess. You’re not a woman, therefore you’re not someone MRAL is likely to be attracted to, so you have a right to have tastes, sexually speaking. And any height is ok for you, and so are all shoes.

Amnesia
Amnesia
9 years ago

@LBT
You might be targeted by him if you’re taller. Do you know your morning height and evening height?

ithiliana
9 years ago

And now I’m thinking that VBT/MRAL cribbed the published feminists (de Pizan, hooks, and maybe Alice Walker) from posts by me and others in the past……

Viscaria
Viscaria
9 years ago

Ugh, I am so sick of this whiny, self-obsessed little puppy.

Shadow
Shadow
9 years ago

Nah, LBT’ll be alright since he’s gay, and therefore not oppressing MRAL with his ALPHA-FUCKness

Dracula
Dracula
9 years ago

I wonder if MRAL would go after me if I mentioned that I’m 6’2″ and have had lots of sex. Does that make me a FUCK ALPHA, or do I get a pass for being fat, currently single and wearing glasses?

Viscaria
Viscaria
9 years ago

@Dracula, I don’t think anybody gets a pass, because MRAL is TEH MOST OPPRESSED11!!1

Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

And now I’m thinking that VBT/MRAL cribbed the published feminists (de Pizan, hooks, and maybe Alice Walker) from posts by me and others in the past……

I think he’s spent so long making an ass of himself in feminist spaces that he’s actually picked up a lot of concepts. (His arguments on Pharyngula were relatively sophisticated by troll standards, what with trying to get points by acknowledging cis privilege and such.) Unfortunately, he’s completely unable to connect these mysterious “concepts that make feminists listen to you” to their actual meanings.

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

MRAL, you’re pathetic. Didn’t get enough negative attention and gnawing on over at Pharyngula?

Next you’ll tell us how your mind is turbo-charged and you just read Canterbury Tales.

cloudiah
cloudiah
9 years ago

It’s funny though, in the process of his idiot persistence MRAL’s learned a lot of social justice terminology and concepts. Way more than the average “privilege means all men are rich!” troll. But he sees these concepts just as tools to use to manipulate us.

Seriously true.

Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

Oh, and MRAL can totally hate LBT, because LBT is married, and thus clearly an ALPHA FUCK.

Viscaria
Viscaria
9 years ago

Somehow I think MRAL considers gay guys more lucky than him, too, because they can have sex without having to deal with those FUCK BITCHES FUCK.

Kyrie
Kyrie
9 years ago

I’m not sure it matters that LBT is married, since he’s not stealing a pretty girl from the dating pool. And since most of MRAL’s anger seems to come for jealousy (and it seems it’s more of women than of men who have sex with them) he wouldn’t be a really good target: a man married to a man, nothing for MRAL to be jealous about.

Anyway, a recent PUA troll explained us that monogamy (without cheating, without poly or open relationship) is completely beta.

And if you think about it, in a sense, gay men are the real MGTOW. ^_^

Sharculese
9 years ago

Somehow I think MRAL considers gay guys more lucky than him, too, because they can have sex without having to deal with those FUCK BITCHES FUCK.

pretty sure he’s said in the past that he wishes he were gay, he just can’t get past the fact that he’s not attracted to men

Scutter
Scutter
9 years ago

This is ever so sad; DikTak gets off to a surprisingly good start with the point that we need to change the cultural perception of what being a man really is. It’s horrible, then, that the follow-up to that idea is to head further down the road of aggression and continuing a cycle of fear through domination and violence.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

You know, I was wondering last night if this was MRAL after he puked up the “privileged prefect” line. Get a life, dude!

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

Also, if I’m a prefect then I get to tell MRAL to get his ass back to class, right? Just remember – no running in the hallway!

LBT
LBT
9 years ago

RE: Amnesia

Lessee… I’m 5’4, skinny as fuck, and puny. (Good cardiovascular health, though!) I’m also often asked what grade I’m in, despite being in my mid-twenties. If I managed to get myself wedded and bedded, I must truly be the alpha cock to rule all alphas.

RE: Kyrie

I totally stole the most gorgeous man on the planet from the dating pool, though. (In my humble opinion, anyway.) Does that give me points?

Rutee Katreya
9 years ago

Oh, MRAL came back. I was wondering why you all were talking about the little mediocrity. XD

makomk
makomk
9 years ago

Don’t worry, even if you’re not achieving something, your friends over at ShitRedditSays are. For example, right now they’re achieving the destruction of the /r/LGBT community through clever techniques such as allowing comments equating gay men with pedophiles whilst deleting comments objecting to this and banning the commenters. Great job! After all, everyone knows that because of male privilege, gay men don’t have to worry about little things like homophobic hate crimes, so it makes perfect sense to have a moderation policy like this. (I’m not exaggerating here; one of the SRS parachute moderators pretty much said that hurting cis gay men was her goal, and she didn’t seem too worried about restricting this to just the cis ones.)