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Oh, Men’s Rights subreddit, will you ever learn? (Probably not.)

Sometimes I ask myself: what is it that I really hope to accomplish with this website, aside from entertaining myself and my readers, and exposing misogynist assholes for who they are. There’s a part of me that still hopes that someday, something I write will cause some misogynist and/or Men’s Rightser out there to develop a modicum of self-awareness, look at what they’ve been saying or doing, and say to themselves, “I’m really kind of a tool, aren’t I? Maybe I should stop.”

When the Southern Poverty Law Center report on the Men’s Rights movement came out, I hoped it might have a similar sort of effect. Or that, even if it didn’t persuade any MRAs out there that they were wrong, it might at least convince a few that they were going about things the wrong way. Nope. On the Men’s Rights subreddit, at least, it seems to have sent many of the regulars into an indignant tizzy, and they have doubled down on their peculiar brand of politics-by-whining-online.

Consider this post:

Yes, that’s right. Some Men’s Rights Redditors seem to think that the best way to convince the world that they’re not part of a hate group is to continue to celebrate a self-admitted child abuser who urged men to firebomb courthouses and police stations and kill people.

Then there’s this post, currently the top post on the subreddit:

Wow, if the Men’s Rights subreddit had anything to do with that, that would indeed be a victory. As one regular put it:

Thing is, I read r/mensrights pretty regularly, and I don’t remember any campaign there to protect the rights of fishermen in New Zealand.

Turns out that’s because the campaign, such as it was, consisted of one post some months back, which got all of 11 upvotes at the time. The current post in which r/mensrights congratulates itself for its “victory” has gotten, last I checked, 120 upvotes, more than ten times that. Simplecosine’s self-congratulatory comment in the new thread has gotten 36 upvotes. The comment in the original thread asking r/mensrightsers to send an email to the US Secretary of State’s office got … one upvote. In other words, only a handful of Men’s Rights Redditors even noticed the original post, much less sent along an email.

Reading one of the linked news articles makes clear the real reason the State Department opened an investigation: a six-month long, three-continent wide investigation by Bloomberg Businessweek revealing abuses in the industry.

The Men’s Rights subreddit: Taking Credit for Shit They Didn’t Do Since 2008.

And then there’s this post:

I’ve got nothing to say about this one — it’s basically self-refuting — except that I’m sort of bemused by the notion that the Southern Poverty Law Center is a “semi-women group.” Uh, what is that exactly? A group with some women in it? A group that doesn’t think women are all a bunch of evil bitches? The horror!

Oh, Men’s Rights movement. You’ll never change, will you?

EDITED TO ADD: And speaking of never changing, here’s how one Men’s Rights redditor responded to my comments there suggesting that maybe, just maybe, MRAs should actually denounce and distance themselves from someone calling for terrorism:

Let me just highlight that bit at the end again:

[T]he cost to the establishment to maintain the status quo in regards to divorce, custody, etc. must be made so high that it’s just no longer feasible. If that means instilling abject fear into the hearts of judges, cops and legislators by making them think their careers and/or lives could be forfeit unless they change their attitudes towards men, then so be it.

Trying to instill fear for one’s life in your opponents: that is the very definition of terrorism.

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LBT
LBT
9 years ago

Kinda off topic, but what I find really creepy about all this is this weird assumption that there’s HEALTH (like Viagra and vasectomies) which are totally for everybody and should be covered, and then there’s WOMEN’S health, like birth control pills, which are only needed by slutty slut sluts and should NEVER be covered.

It really is illustrative of that old theory that men are considered people, and then women are a subclass.

(Though for extra sad, this post came on the day that my insurance died AND I ran out of my meds. 🙁 Withdrawing LBT is withdrawing.)

aceofsevens
9 years ago

Maybe their half-woman,half something else. Fish,maybe

Magnesium
Magnesium
9 years ago

I think a semi-woman group involves lady truckers.

I’m surprised that there isn’t a Wikipedia entry about Thomas Ball. There’s an article on the Friend Zone. But I thought the r/mensrights guys were trying to pretend that they didn’t even know who Ball was.

Falconer
Falconer
9 years ago

@LBT: about there being “health” and then “women’s health:”

I agree that it’s really creepy. The latest thing that brings this problem to my mind is an article linked to on Pharyngula: Women’s heart attack symptoms are often quite different from men’s, and even many doctors don’t catch them, because everybody is expected to react to medical conditions like a man.

It’s sad and infuriating and oh god now I’m remembering Newt Gingrich saying that women get “infections” in trenches therefore soldiers = men and I’m going to have to step away from my keyboard before I pull all the keys off in a blind rage.

Kendra, the bionic mommy
Kendra, the bionic mommy
9 years ago

I was wondering if the MRA’s would distance themselves from Thomas Ball after the SPLC report came out. His manifesto is still posted on AVfM, though. I don’t know if any MRA’s still use a closing tag of “Remember Thomas Ball: He died for our children”. I was expecting them to start deleting any positive references to him and pretend they never said what they did, but I was wrong. They are going to stubbornly insist he was a peaceful martyr for their cause. They also want to insist that it is wrong to criticize anything he ever said or did because he is deceased. That makes no sense, since they are still complaining about what dead feminists said decades ago.

Falconer
Falconer
9 years ago

Uh, I guess I should have said that my link goes to Feministe but I browsed Pharyngula first today.

xardoz
9 years ago

Nice job exposing their slacktivism. If it doesn’t involve doxxing or making someone’s life miserable, MRAs really can’t be bothered to get off their asses. But they’ll generously distribute the asspats after someone else does the work for them.

Russ
Russ
9 years ago

Thomas Ball had a wiki page, but it was deleted, much to the dismay of “John the Other”.

http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/the-organized-silencing-of-a-man-publicly-burned-to-death/

.

boomboom
boomboom
9 years ago

I’m glad you posted this, because when they tout this as a victory in the future…I’ll be there… heh heh… I’ll be there. 🙂

Cloudiah
Cloudiah
9 years ago

@LBT that sucks about your insurance and meds. It’s a shitty world where people can’t get the meds they need.

I believe semi-women groups are groups of half-women. Or groups of women tractor trailer enthusiasts? Gad, I dunno.

The latest thing that brings this problem to my mind is an article linked to on Pharyngula: Women’s heart attack symptoms are often quite different from men’s, and even many doctors don’t catch them, because everybody is expected to react to medical conditions like a man.

When my mother had her heart attack, she argued with the EMTs all the way to the hospital. They kept telling her she was having a heart attack, she kept telling them it was just bad indigestion. My beloved cousin, a man, had a heart attack with symptoms much more like those that women experience. Neither he nor his wife recognized it for what it was until it was too late.

Newt
Newt
9 years ago

Even omega virgin revolt is saying a voice for men is filled with nutjobs.

Shadow
Shadow
9 years ago

I believe “semi-women” groups are groups that seek to help men AND women. It is still unconfirmed by the MRM as to whether or not these groups are just urban legends. After all, in the words of the great WhatIsToBeDone: “They control it all now. We have blogs.”

Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

Never even mind that IT’S NOT TAX DOLLARS.

It’s not even any dollars, because contraceptives save insurance companies money. $1000/year (which is on the high side, my pills cost more like $500/year… and my insurance premium is $200/month) is peanuts compared to the cost of pregnancy and birth. Which itself is peanuts compared to the cost of all the care even a healthy infant will need in its first few years. Which is tiny little peanuts all over again compared to the cost of care for an infant with a birth defect or major illness.

The only real objections to this are “morality” clauses from religious institutions, not expense.

Newt
Newt
9 years ago

A lot of these nutjobs don’t even separate the topic of toxic women from criticism of feminism.

Just doing that simple thing keeps you from getting futrelleboobed.

LBT
LBT
9 years ago

RE: Cloudiah

Yeah. Now I’m pretty D: because I have to get a new insurance plan, don’t know if they’ll cover, and without insurance coverage, a month’s of meds costs about as much as three months of my groceries. I have savings, so I can afford it for a while, but… D:

Shadow
Shadow
9 years ago

But, but… women WANT shit Holly!!! Surely, if they want it, it must be bad!

QuantumSparkle
QuantumSparkle
9 years ago

Semi-women are female-gendered robots in disguise, who transform into semi trucks.

*kwrrr-khaa-khee-khee-khrr* (Transformer noise!)

blitzgal
9 years ago

It’s not even any dollars, because contraceptives save insurance companies money. $1000/year (which is on the high side, my pills cost more like $500/year… and my insurance premium is $200/month) is peanuts compared to the cost of pregnancy and birth.

Was arguing with a winger who said he didn’t want it covered because his insurance premiums would go up. I pointed out the same thing to him — pregnancy and childbirth costs far more than contraceptives, and lowering the number of unintended pregnancies would save money, not cost money. His response to that was that the only way to avoid pregnancy is to keep your legs closed.

My mistake for taking him seriously at his first point. He was never debating honestly. I’ll let all of my married friends know that they are no longer allowed to have sex with their husbands unless they’re willing to have a dozen kids.

blitzgal
9 years ago

Also, this entry on the website “Not Always Right” reminded me of the MRM:

http://notalwaysright.com/

Now Accepting Immigrants From Femmerica

RETAIL | MARION, IA, USA | BIGOTRY

(I’m sweeping when an older gentleman comes up. Note that I’m female.)

Customer: “It’s good to see you doing that.”

Me: “Oh…um…thank you.”

Customer: “So many of you young ladies these days are d*** fem’nists.”

Me: “Actually, sir, I am a feminist. It’s just a little dirty, so I need to clean up.”

Customer: “You d*** fem’nists! Taking jobs from real ‘Mericans who need jobs.”

Me: “Sir, I was born in this country. I’m a third generation American. Being a feminist makes me no less American than you. I just support women’s rights.”

Customer: “That ain’t ‘Merican! Women ain’t ‘Merican!”

Me: *speechless*

Falconer
Falconer
9 years ago

Semi-women are female-gendered robots in disguise, who transform into semi trucks.

“Freedom is the right of all sentient beings!

… Except men. F#@& men.”

Anthony Zarat
9 years ago

“Oh, Men’s Rights movement. You’ll never change, will you?”

No, we are not going to change. We are going to win. And then, YOU are going to change.

katz
9 years ago

@ AntZ

darksidecat
9 years ago

Not thinking all women are bitches makes you a semi-woman, or a mangina, which is bad because that makes you not a man, and if you aren’t a man, you’re not human. That’s how they think.

Dracula
Dracula
9 years ago

No, we are not going to change. We are going to win. And then, YOU are going to change.

Karalora
9 years ago

Hey, MRM, you know what else is a “semi-women group”? The population of Planet Earth.

For an organization to focus half its resources on women isn’t favoritism, it’s exactly proportionate representation.

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
9 years ago

Anthony Zarat February 29, 2012 at 11:31 am

I am sorry. I misunderstood. As you know, I believe that VR is the only way men will find safety from institutional prejudice that stems from asymmetric compassion. I do not believe that the MRM will succeed, and I am preparing for a future where equality is permanently out of reach for men, boys, and fathers.

Anthony Zarat March 9, 2012 at 10:47 am

Futrelle, we are going to win. We will not stop until we have achieved equal protection under the law for men, boys, and fathers. We will not stop until we have achieved equal protecvtion of government for men, boys and fathers.

BoggiDWurms
BoggiDWurms
9 years ago

@LBT: about there being “health” and then “women’s health:”

I agree that it’s really creepy. The latest thing that brings this problem to my mind is an article linked to on Pharyngula: Women’s heart attack symptoms are often quite different from men’s, and even many doctors don’t catch them, because everybody is expected to react to medical conditions like a man.

It’s sad and infuriating and oh god now I’m remembering Newt Gingrich saying that women get “infections” in trenches therefore soldiers = men and I’m going to have to step away from my keyboard before I pull all the keys off in a blind rage.

It stems from a deeper problem: The widespread assumption that men are the default and that women are derivatives and embodiments of “femaleness”.

nwoslave
9 years ago

Dave, don’t sell yourself short in the accompishment arena. You’re helping to fuel the fires of societies hatred of boys/men and all things pertaining to men or masculinity.

Why I rate you right up there with verison’s monster ad where only men are depicted as DV monsters and of course the victim is a little girl.

Or perhaps the bus billboards in Texas, where a little girl is pictured with the caption, “One day my husband will kill me,” or where a little boy is pictured under the caption, “When I grow up, I will beat my wife.” Since women commit DV in more than equal numbers and quite a few murders of men as well, societies indoctrinated hatred of only boys/men and the love of only girls/women is readily apparent. There really is only one lobby with the power and zeal for the hatred of boys/men to place such a distorted message. That’d be the womens lobby of course. Heck, I’ll even give you a link for this one.
http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/2008/10/from_outside_dallas_a_campaign.php

Or maybe you prefer grade school indoctrinated hatred of boys/men. Like the propaganda billboards placed in grade schools showing young boys wearing a hoodie with the words, “awaiting instructions” emblazoned on the hoodies. Strange how boys are in apparent need of girls instructing them like trained animals, yet girls are taught to be repulsed at the very idea ever listening to a boy or man. Once again we have the womens lobby to thank for their thoughtful message.

You’re doing fine work here, Dave. As are every one of your brood of hatefilled commentors. Why every advert portraying men as backward buffoons and women as morally infallible and intellectually superior gets the DF seal of approval.

Kendra, the bionic mommy
Kendra, the bionic mommy
9 years ago

No, we are not going to change. We are going to win. And then, YOU are going to change.

LOL, good luck with that!

Kendra, the bionic mommy
Kendra, the bionic mommy
9 years ago

Dang blockquote fail. The first line was AntZ’s quote.

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

How’s the VR, Zarat? Does FOREIGN BRIDE know?

Cloudiah
Cloudiah
9 years ago

No, we are not going to change. We are going to win. And then, YOU are going to change.

This seems relevant to that: Field Guide to Rage Faces

BoggiDWurms
BoggiDWurms
9 years ago

What MRAs think they are.

What they really are.

Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

Sometimes the saddest thing about the MRM is when they think their assholery is some sort of new idea.

Yeah, go ahead, chumps, you’re the first person to ever think of intimidating cops and judges. What a shocking novel plan that you totally don’t share with every criminal organization ever.

Courts have had metal detectors and armed security since way before the MRM was a thing.

boomboom
boomboom
9 years ago

Keep documenting this stuff. The jig is up for them, they can’t lie and gaslight about what they really stand for with this site around.

Crumbelievable
Crumbelievable
9 years ago

Some dared to point out that Thomas Ball smacked his daughter in the face, and the response was:

“You are a misandric cunt and should be banned.”

Nothijg misogynistic about calling people cunts, no siree.

Paul Daniel Ash
9 years ago

Project Mayhem, Anthony, for reals? You do know that Tyler Durden was a sociopath, right? Also: made up?

Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

I think if the MRM’s reaction to Manboobz has taught us one thing, it’s that there’s nothing more misandric than reminding people of things that they actually did.

Shadow
Shadow
9 years ago

“Who you calling a terrorist? I’ll teach you misandrists to call us terrorists. We need to make them fear us!!”

Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

“Who you calling a terrorist? I’ll teach you misandrists to call us terrorists. We need to make them fear us!!”

This is a very common abuser script. Nothing sets ’em off like being called an abuser. Why, if you use that word again, they might just… abuse you. That’ll learn ya.

Sad thing is, in the context of a relationship where they have enough power to put their partner/family/employees in the “just keep them happy and they’re not so bad” mindset, this can actually work; it can become so ingrained that it makes it hard for survivors to use the A-word even after they’ve gotten away.

This doesn’t work so well when they’re a group of like a thousand guys maximum, trying to abuse all of society.

Kendra, the bionic mommy
Kendra, the bionic mommy
9 years ago

NWO, I already explained earlier today what the MRM is really about

Of course you’re offended by a cell phone ad that showed that women or girls can be victims of violence. You don’t think that ever happens.

Moewicus
Moewicus
9 years ago

nwoslave is supporting my “magic asshole” theory that the trolls are all just one person. Usually it’s Antsy going on and on about “misandric” posters in schools and I can’t recall owly talking about men AND boys before–that’s usually Antsy’s thing. If the mag asshole theory is correct, what I’m seeing is the Author forgetting the unique voices of zir characters because some of them have been away for a while.

Curiouser and curiouser.

nwoslave
9 years ago

@Kendra, the bionic mommy
“Of course you’re offended by a cell phone ad that showed that women or girls can be victims of violence. You don’t think that ever happens.”

Has there been a relentless ad campaign depicting women as abusers of men/boys and children in our schools, government and MSM? That’s how you know whose privileged and holds the power in any given society.

boomboom
boomboom
9 years ago

Anthony Zarat clearly supports terrorist threats and lies. He does not distance himself, or say that he disagrees, but keeps saying they will “win”. I suppose considering what they’ve said over and over their tactics should be, AZ saying they will win should be considered a threat.

Among feminists and in feminism there is no shortage of women going on and on about what they DON’T agree with and which rad fem statements cause them to clutch their pearls. There’s an endless stream of women and feminists basically saying, NO, I don’t believe anything that would make me appear less attractive to random strangers on the internet, please love me! So there is just no comparison. Feminism cannot be painted with the broad brush, yet, the MRM do so. After they’re done doing that, they will claim that ALL of what the MRM does is right, but that they are all being painted with the same brush and “guilt by association is wrong!” Yet won’t admit a thing or distance themselves from any of it.
I mean you would think people like Bernard Chapin, who says none of this crazy stuff would speak out to delineate what is true MRM and what is crazy talk, but no. He complains about the cherry picking, but stands by ALL OF IT! Ergh.

Shadow
Shadow
9 years ago

@Holly

Good point

I dunno if this is just a kneejerk reaction, but I think I agree with Owly that the TX campaign is over the line

Anthony Zarat
9 years ago

The MRM is a civil rights movement promoting equal protection under the law and equal protection of government.

You people are throw backs to brutish times that most societies wish they could forget.

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

Zarat, you forgot to call us bigots. You’re slipping.

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

Shadow, the article NWO posted about the billboards is 4 years old.

Lauralot
9 years ago

It’s not the NWO doesn’t believe women can be victims of violence, it’s that he’s rooting for it to happen.

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