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[TW for rape apologism and domestic violence.]
Paul Elam of A Voice for Men has responded to the Southern Poverty Law Center report on the Men’s Rights Movement with an letter to the organization’s head. Apparently, the SPLC is confused, and AVFM isn’t hateful at all! Indeed, it’s like the opposite of hateful. Loveful, you might call it. Here’s Elam:
Contrary to what readers of your site may be led to believe, the goals of SPLC and AVfM are quite similar: We both work to identify groups who seek to oppress others, and inform the public of the inequities they would perpetuate. … The work of AVfM is vital and, despite what you may think, not dissimilar from the goals and aims of the SPLC.
Indeed, AVFM might better be thought of as “a human rights organization.”
Elam also clears up a little matter of terminology:
[T]he term “mangina” is not a euphemism for “weak men,” but rather a label for men who enable and excuse female misconduct – ranging from physical violence to exculpatory false reporting of crimes … – solely because the offender is female (and to gain women’s approval).
I think I can speak for all manginas when I say, thanks for the clarification, Paul!
At the end of the letter, Elam gets all Martin Luther King on us:
Those who fear truth, and brand it as hatred and bigotry, hide behind the worst kind of cowardice – the sniveling complacency that for generations allowed the rich to starve the poor, for one person to own another because of the color of their skin, and for the officers at Nuremberg to claim they were “just following orders.” …
This movement will grow, as it has since its inception, and the time will come when the SPLC (and other groups) must admit our fundamental similarities and aspirations. I am inviting you, with open arms, to do just that.
The alternative, I fear, is that you come down on the wrong side of history, with the likes of Dred Scott as your legacy.
Inspiring stuff, Paul. Nazis, Dred Scott– you totally nailed it. Who could possibly doubt your passion, or your deeply moral vision?
Here’s a link to his letter.
Oh, wait, that wasn’t a link to his letter. That was a link to a post of his in which he tells a feminist that:
I am not going to stop. You see, I find you, as a feminist, to be a loathsome, vile piece of human garbage. I find you so pernicious and repugnant that the idea of fucking your shit up gives me an erection.
Here’s the link to his letter.
Oops! That was actually a link to a post in which he suggests that “vermin” like me (and another feminist writer who has also been critical of the Men’s Rights movement) deserve to be killed. Or have something awful and permanent happen to us that would solve “the problem” that is us. He’s a little vague.
Here, at long last, is the link.
Oh, sorry, that’s actually a link to a post in which Paul puckishly suggested that October, currently designated as Domestic Violence Awareness Month, should be renamed “Bash a Violent Bitch Month.” As he explained:
I’d like to make it the objective for the remainder of this month, and all the Octobers that follow, for men who are being attacked and physically abused by women – to beat the living shit out of them. I don’t mean subdue them, or deliver an open handed pop on the face to get them to settle down. I mean literally to grab them by the hair and smack their face against the wall till the smugness of beating on someone because you know they won’t fight back drains from their nose with a few million red corpuscles.
And then make them clean up the mess.
What a wit!
Anyway, here’s the letter.
Gosh darn it. I’m not doing too well with links at the moment. That’s actually a link to a post in which Elam suggests that women who drink and go home with men are “freaking begging” to be raped:
Damn near demanding it.
And all the outraged PC demands to get huffy and point out how nothing justifies or excuses rape won’t change the fact that there are a lot of women who get pummeled and pumped because they are stupid (and often arrogant) enough to walk though life with the equivalent of a I’M A STUPID, CONNIVING BITCH – PLEASE RAPE ME neon sign glowing above their empty little narcissistic heads.
I guess that’s what they call “human rights advocacy” right there.
Ok, finally, the letter:
Damn. That wasn’t even by Paul. No, that was a guest post on A Voice for Men by a fellow named Keith, with an explanation for why men don’t just beat women all the time. (It’s not why you’d think!)
Let’s face it guys if it was about size or domination, or patriarchy or anything other than power, wouldn’t we be kicking the shit out of women on a daily basis in the streets? The only reason men don’t randomly pound the shit out of women who can’t keep their mouths shut, is because they don’t mean anything to us and they have no power over or in our lives. They are not worth the trouble! That’s the only reason there isn’t bodies strewn all over the streets.
That’s enough human rights advocacy for me for now. Here’s the actual link to Elam’s letter.
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This post contains some
This is the kind of sentence that tended to have “(irony)” written in pencil in the margins whenever it appeared in books on my English Lit reading list.
I don’t see any diversion going on. On the contrary, the passage that you’re criticizing is now being scrutinized in much more detail. The only problem from your perspective is that exactly the same conclusions are being drawn – unsurprisingly, because they’re the most reasonable conclusions that the evidence supports.
How is he “lying and distorting” if he includes a link to the supporting evidence and that evidence backs up his claim? Which I’d argue very strongly that it does.
Oh dear, and just when you were bringing me round to your point of view. After all, there’s nothing like calling someone a baboon to convince them that you’re in the right.
So Adi, are you mad that the dishonesty of your chief baboon was totally exposed? By his own words, quoted in context? Yeah, I thought so.
Will the flounce be unstucken?
By and by, Lord, by and by.
When you call someone “vermin” it’s generally understood what you think they deserve. To pretend otherwise is just stupidly dishonest.
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Why do all the new trolls fucking suck?
Lol. And the mob descends upon the truth. I see a whole load more baboon cries and I haven’t read one single word of them. That’s the handy discipline to be able to divert your eyes away. Well perhaps they’re not even addressing me but given your desperate thirst for validation, that is supremely unlikely. I’m guessing there are a whole load more labels, shaming and of course the “now you really got us” type of sarcasm. You know something? Now that I’m not reading your squabbling verbal masturbation, you actually sound more intelligent. Maybe that’s due to the total absence of the same in the comments I did read.
In case some new people joined in the discussion and you feel unfairly lumped up with the bigoted baboons then tough. Anyone who isn’t one of the baboon bigots would not hang around this cesspool of feminist excrement. And on that note, now it really is time to leave – never keep people waiting.
You must admit, as much as you might hate me or condescendingly pretend to pity me, at least I’ve given you pathetic losers something to do for the afternoon.
Indeed. But perhaps not in the way that you affect to pretend.
So let me get this straight – if you see something that you think you might disagree with, you simply don’t read it? I can see the virtue in that: in fact, it’s a useful skill if you want to avoid upsetting yourself with opinions that challenge your own worldview – but isn’t it a tad blinkered if you’re expecting to bring people round to your point of view?
After all, why should anyone take you seriously if you’re actually telling us point blank that you’re going “LA LA LA LA I CAN’T HEAR YOU”?
I think we’re supposed to be impressed by this “gotcha”, but the punchline seems to have fallen by the wayside.
Has a troll ever actually managed to stick a flounce round here? What’s the betting this won’t be Adi’s last comment either?
Why should anyone hate you? You’ve put forward a shallow, silly argument that was ripped to shreds – and so quickly that you’ve clearly given up defending it and have resorted to childish ad hominems instead. That’s hardly worthy of hatred: my six-year-old daughter does this all the time, and she’s adorable.
How do you know they’re responding to you, then? 😛 We’ve actually been talking about our favorite brands of toothpaste THE ENTIRE TIME! 😀
For fuck’s sake, asshole, stick the flounce or we’ll just laugh even harder.
I find it interesting that David posts to several things in this post, all of them vile, and the one about him in particular was disgusting. Instead of this MRA nutjob asking Paul where David supports child abuse, he comes here and says that Paul’s post says nothing vile.
WAT?
And speaking of supporting child abuse, Thomas Ball his his four year old in the mouth until it was bloody because she licked him, and Paul continually lies about Thomas and writes as though he was persecuted and not responsible for his own behavior and hold Ball up as a warning to us all. Like that’s not batshit insane, dangerous and worthy of not just an SPLC mention, but an FBI watch.
There is so much gruesome venom from that abuser’s lobby and this cretin comes here to troll. What a nightmare of a human being.
I see a whole load more baboon cries and I haven’t read one single word of them.
No shit you haven’t. Trust me, it really shows.
Crest can beat any other toothpaste in the FACE with its own cap. Anyone want to challenge that?
Adi, why are you commenting here? No one is making you comment here, and it seems to make you angry. Why don’t you go discuss cats somewhere else?
holy mother of fuck your english teacher must grade your essays with a bottle of whiskey. this is the twentyfirst motherfucking century, not colonial williamsburg. writing like a shitty thomas paine knockoff doesnt make you look smart, it makes you look like every other rip-off hack on the internet.
Just as winter yields to the summer sun, in time the light of truth and equality will burn through the fog of feminist occupied government. History will regard our cruel taunters as nothing more than dogs barking at shadows, too dumb and cowardly to comprehend the forces against them.
DO YOU GUYS NOT SEE HOW FUCKING LAME THAT SOUNDS. WHY DO YOU DO IT? WHY DO YOU SUBJECT US TO YOUR INCESSANT MOTHERFUCKING DIARYSCRAWL.
And you’re here because?
I know you’ll be back, our trolls are like herpes, they always come back.
hey adi if youre still reading this i just wanted to let you know that alliteration works with other letters besides ‘b’
@ hellkell
So what you’re saying is that MRAs are the STD of the Internet?
Pretty much, Cassandra.
I’d like to address that, so let’s pretend tomorow a fairy will destroy all misogynism. I uess it could be problemeatic for people whose living is based on feminism, like, I don’t know, people who write about feminist issues, or professional speakers or people of the like.
I guess they could go to write on the history of feminism.
But the people who run the DV shelter, plan parenthood and the likes,… they would still have a job. Just an easier one.
Now, if you want to talk about manboobzer, I really wouldn’t worry about them. If you a regular lurker, you might know there is a lot of talk about kitten and other pet, about politics, aboutactors, about books, movies, sex life, bras, video games,etc. Remove the misogyny mocking and all the manboobzers still have all the listed above. plus jobs, studies, loved ones, issues outside misogyny,…
So don’t worry about us, you can remove misogyny, it wont hurt us. Please do that.
Adi, are you really this obtuse or are you just pretending? This is a serious question, actually.
If Elam is talking about something like a libel suit, why on earth would he make a point of saying that giving me and the other writer what we “deserve” would be
Obviously he is talking about something bad, and something permanent, so bad and permanent — and something so obvious to the readers that he felt it necessary to cover his own ass here with this statement so he could say, “oh, I didn’t really advocate that.”
If he were talking about libel, he would have simply said so; he’s not shy about saying the “l-word.” Indeed, he said this yesterday on Reddit:
He’s not going through with a libel case in this instance not because he is somehow morally opposed to libel suits, but because, among other things, he’s afraid he would lose it, and this could cost him money.
The link:
http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/qpgg0/its_time_to_wake_the_a_up_in_mralets_sue_the_splc/c3zf4nv
Oh, and make no mistake, he would lose a libel case. Defamation of character almost always requires direct evidence that the untrue thing being said has actually harmed you (Which is why the MRM’s perennial cries of MANGINA or FEMINAZI will never get them libel’d; :D)
The David Irving example mentioned above is an excellent cautionary tale. Despite suing in a British court, he not only lost the case against Penguin Books but as an immensely happy side-effect his entire reputation as a serious historian was trashed after it was proven beyond any doubt that he’d deliberately mistranslated documents, left out crucial contextual details and numerous other things that proper historians Just Don’t Do. His supporters often conveniently “forget” that he brought the case in the first place, so keen are they to paint him as some kind of victim.
And it’s exactly the same situation with Elam – even if his case was infinitely stronger than it actually is, the collateral damage in terms of his reputation being dragged slowly and methodically through the mud as an inescapable by-product of such a lawsuit must be a powerful disincentive. Because the defendant in such a case would scour every syllable of AVfM for as much dirt as possible – and I don’t think he’d have much difficulty finding it.
Im not about to wade through the comments. I am only going to say that the nature of this rebuttal is no surprise, and it really wouldnt matter the object of the local scorn. It amazes me that folks who tend to be leftest AND feminist see pseudo clever wit as discourse. The writer makes verbal hand to forehead comments, wry observations, cute insults, and clever metaphors (“goes Martin Luther King on us”), ok…..but did he SAY anything?
This attribute of the unique forensics of the left is ubiquitous. There is literally NOTHING of substance in the rebuttal, and that is painfully evident to a reader even if they had no idea even what the writer is on about. I needn’t even break into any particulars taken by the two sides to simply ask, where is the meat?
Its a sad state of affairs that it seems learning, and thoughtful analysis has been replaces by this , what passes as rhetoric. In a judged forensics contest this would not even qualify as stalling filler. This is however reflective of a demographic that is at once ignorant, yet witty (too clever by half) because they have taken their current events from John Stewart, and learned his delivery. Ive no doubt that even the brow expressions would accompany this if seen being spoken.
How courageous is it to be a male feminist? Cracks me up because they are celebrated for their courage, especially by women, who actually see them as useful idiots and token men to refer to when debating their banal points. This poor man is smug for no reason, surrounded by sycophants its easy to FEEL that way.
If you doubt me, please list off just three tangible rebuttals in this post, 3 factual or even allegedly factual (heck I don’t care if the facts are correct or not, I cant find any facts posited) counterpoints.
To respond to the post in kind, maybe a bit more dry and dull, I’d say to the writer:
You are dumb! If I could wrap that in Stewartisms it may even sway some of these deep thinkers
These are snips of the comments from the last couple of hours. See a pattern? They dont SAY anything, but they must stimulate the like minded who feed of it. I could jump right in and write some cute inflammatory posts and pretend to be indignant and I may even gin up some gold stars
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I see a whole load more baboon cries and I haven’t read one single word of them.
For fuck’s sake, asshole, stick the flounce or we’ll just laugh even harder.
I see a whole load more baboon cries and I haven’t read one single word of them.
No shit you haven’t. Trust me, it really shows.
holy mother of fuck your english teacher must grade your essays with a bottle of whiskey. this is the twentyfirst motherfucking century, not colonial williamsburg. writing like a shitty thomas paine knockoff doesnt make you look smart, it makes you look like every other rip-off hack on the internet.
DO YOU GUYS NOT SEE HOW FUCKING LAME THAT SOUNDS. WHY DO YOU DO IT? WHY DO YOU SUBJECT US TO YOUR INCESSANT MOTHERFUCKING DIARYSCRAWL.
I know you’ll be back, our trolls are like herpes, they always come back.
o what you’re saying is that MRAs are the STD of the Internet?
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If I went further Id get more, I may be able to change key words that have specificity the the topic and use these on all liberal feminist blogs. Its like a random cute insult generator put on a pedestal as a scholar