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[TW for rape apologism and domestic violence.]
Paul Elam of A Voice for Men has responded to the Southern Poverty Law Center report on the Men’s Rights Movement with an letter to the organization’s head. Apparently, the SPLC is confused, and AVFM isn’t hateful at all! Indeed, it’s like the opposite of hateful. Loveful, you might call it. Here’s Elam:
Contrary to what readers of your site may be led to believe, the goals of SPLC and AVfM are quite similar: We both work to identify groups who seek to oppress others, and inform the public of the inequities they would perpetuate. … The work of AVfM is vital and, despite what you may think, not dissimilar from the goals and aims of the SPLC.
Indeed, AVFM might better be thought of as “a human rights organization.”
Elam also clears up a little matter of terminology:
[T]he term “mangina” is not a euphemism for “weak men,” but rather a label for men who enable and excuse female misconduct – ranging from physical violence to exculpatory false reporting of crimes … – solely because the offender is female (and to gain women’s approval).
I think I can speak for all manginas when I say, thanks for the clarification, Paul!
At the end of the letter, Elam gets all Martin Luther King on us:
Those who fear truth, and brand it as hatred and bigotry, hide behind the worst kind of cowardice – the sniveling complacency that for generations allowed the rich to starve the poor, for one person to own another because of the color of their skin, and for the officers at Nuremberg to claim they were “just following orders.” …
This movement will grow, as it has since its inception, and the time will come when the SPLC (and other groups) must admit our fundamental similarities and aspirations. I am inviting you, with open arms, to do just that.
The alternative, I fear, is that you come down on the wrong side of history, with the likes of Dred Scott as your legacy.
Inspiring stuff, Paul. Nazis, Dred Scott– you totally nailed it. Who could possibly doubt your passion, or your deeply moral vision?
Here’s a link to his letter.
Oh, wait, that wasn’t a link to his letter. That was a link to a post of his in which he tells a feminist that:
I am not going to stop. You see, I find you, as a feminist, to be a loathsome, vile piece of human garbage. I find you so pernicious and repugnant that the idea of fucking your shit up gives me an erection.
Here’s the link to his letter.
Oops! That was actually a link to a post in which he suggests that “vermin” like me (and another feminist writer who has also been critical of the Men’s Rights movement) deserve to be killed. Or have something awful and permanent happen to us that would solve “the problem” that is us. He’s a little vague.
Here, at long last, is the link.
Oh, sorry, that’s actually a link to a post in which Paul puckishly suggested that October, currently designated as Domestic Violence Awareness Month, should be renamed “Bash a Violent Bitch Month.” As he explained:
I’d like to make it the objective for the remainder of this month, and all the Octobers that follow, for men who are being attacked and physically abused by women – to beat the living shit out of them. I don’t mean subdue them, or deliver an open handed pop on the face to get them to settle down. I mean literally to grab them by the hair and smack their face against the wall till the smugness of beating on someone because you know they won’t fight back drains from their nose with a few million red corpuscles.
And then make them clean up the mess.
What a wit!
Anyway, here’s the letter.
Gosh darn it. I’m not doing too well with links at the moment. That’s actually a link to a post in which Elam suggests that women who drink and go home with men are “freaking begging” to be raped:
Damn near demanding it.
And all the outraged PC demands to get huffy and point out how nothing justifies or excuses rape won’t change the fact that there are a lot of women who get pummeled and pumped because they are stupid (and often arrogant) enough to walk though life with the equivalent of a I’M A STUPID, CONNIVING BITCH – PLEASE RAPE ME neon sign glowing above their empty little narcissistic heads.
I guess that’s what they call “human rights advocacy” right there.
Ok, finally, the letter:
Damn. That wasn’t even by Paul. No, that was a guest post on A Voice for Men by a fellow named Keith, with an explanation for why men don’t just beat women all the time. (It’s not why you’d think!)
Let’s face it guys if it was about size or domination, or patriarchy or anything other than power, wouldn’t we be kicking the shit out of women on a daily basis in the streets? The only reason men don’t randomly pound the shit out of women who can’t keep their mouths shut, is because they don’t mean anything to us and they have no power over or in our lives. They are not worth the trouble! That’s the only reason there isn’t bodies strewn all over the streets.
That’s enough human rights advocacy for me for now. Here’s the actual link to Elam’s letter.
—
This post contains some
Uh, right on, Mr. E?
@KathleenB:
That’s right. Everyone knows that only free, land-owning men deserve to vote. And they hate kittens.
The bastards.
Mre:
Mens’ Rights Activists are real civil rights activists who truly fight to do good in the world
If you were a true MRA you would finish that paragraph with “So there, you fat, ugly sluts”
LOLLL. Definite Poe.
Uh… yeah, you rock that vocab, Mr. E.
Seriously, you read like my old phonology textbook.
Come on, folks. This Poe is not only obvious, but also kind of funny.
@Shadow
Actually he’s not. Dude has a youtube channel
unless it’s someone impersonating him? o.O
@Quackers
Really? He was ACTUALLY claiming that “concise reasoning and adroit use of evidence” is a ploy? That’s on par with “Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. 14% of people know that”
The RockingMrE of the twitter feed and YouTube channel appears to be genuine, although I was only able to watch one video he linked to of something written by St. Fidelbogenus. This RockingMrE just seems like deliberate parody and a compliment to manboobz through its “facts have a liberal bias” style joke and its over the top conflation of Islam, marxism, fascism, etc.. It’s not that there’s no one that could actually say such things and mean them as genuine criticism, but it seems so silly. But if anyone does it’s the guy with that twitter feed. I guess that’s the point of a Poe. Well done, sir.
I just realized something. The SPLC debunked the Kanin study that had shown number of false allegations of rape to be at 40%, when the reality is probably between 2 and 8% at most. Elam actually cited the Kanin study in his response to the SPLC. What kind of debating tactic is that? First someone debunks a study, and then you respond by citing that same discredited study? I doubt many of his readers ever bother to follow the links and check his facts, because something like that is very obvious.
@Moewicus
Yeah, that was exactly how I read it, but I didn’t know that there was an actual MrRockingE. The absolute lack of links to any of his sites makes me think that this is an impersonation like Quackers said.
I fully expected that this SPLC write-up would only serve to embiggen Paul’s ego. But it was still a nice symbolic “fuck you”
@ Amused
1) Women aren’t the overwhelming majority victims of genital mutilation in the USA/Western World. Men are. You make valid points about women suffering more in this area on a case by case basis, but it’s honestly not our problem (despite my sympathy) and outside the scope of the discussion.
2) I find your arguments about custody to be incoherent. “Most of the sacrifices for the family”? How is it that the mothers (who have been proven in wage gap research to have a broader spectrum of choices in families) are seen to be the ones to have made sacrifices? The person who never had a choice is the one making the sacrifice. “Bulk of the child care”? Is someone who works as a provider somehow a delinquent or incapable or not pulling their parental weight because of the necessity for them to be in a separate location more frequently. Is it really what men want? To be kept away from their family? To sacrifice for the sake of higher earnings? I find it quite offensive to assume men don’t care about their kids until they’re served with divorce papers. “No pain. No gain.”? I guess men were doing nothing the whole time. I don’t know how men die so often on the job compared to women if they’re just watching women do everything. Whatever image you hold of men does nothing but reinforce the views of MRAs that they are part of a group under attack and held in less regard than their counterparts.
3) Tell me what laws (outside abortion since that reflects obvious differences in physiology) that women need that men don’t. I’m a bit more open on this one since nothing jumps out at me.
4) Your arguments regarding the suicide problem are confused at best, but it’s understandable (so I give you a pass) since you don’t have the experiences that would make the arguments of the MRM appeal to you. What men’s experiences have made them feel is that the social constructs they were raised upon regarding interactions with women were lies. Many men are in pain (obviously) and don’t see how they can create the life they thought they might build. Some of those men kill themselves. Other men find solace and hope through the explanations and alternatives offered to them through the Manosphere.
5) Your rebuttal on the domestic abuse problem did nothing but play into the notion men already have that women don’t give a fuck about men being abused and that women need more, more, and more help. Yes, we know women are hurt more often. Is that proportion equivalent to the money put towards those problems? No, it is overwhelmingly disproportionate in favor to women. Remember when women wanted money to go towards women’s sports? Women would have never accepted the argument that they shouldn’t receive those funds because men play sports more often, and rightfully so. Why should men give women a near monopoly on DV support?
6) Abortion. Well, here’s a proposal I’ve read a few times. Women keep the right to choose what to do with their body. Whew, glad we got past that. However, men and women get the right to choose what to do with their wallets. When a child is fertilized, men get the same option as women to opt out of the situation financially. I’m not saying it’s perfect or that I’d elect to do such a thing in my personal life, but it does give men an equal right as women without touching any rights you think are associated with your pregnancy.
7) Objectification (sexual or otherwise) is a two way street and everyone knows it. Neither gender gets a pass to play that card.
Gender issues are emotional. People are going to say some wild shit. The situation is pretty basic. Women are historically viewed as the oppressed victim. MRAs see this as a bullshit justification for ignoring the current state of affairs. They perceive that most people are fine with this perception and happy to dismiss the notion that men have real issues. I don’t know how it surprises anyone that they get angry and bitter. As would you! I don’t care. Ignore them, chastise them, arrest them. It only makes for more entertaining reading. Fuck reality anyways.
Here he is on AVfM:
http://www.avoiceformen.com/men/fathers/21st-century-fatherhood/
Apparently he’s a stay-at-home dad, which is nice, but denies that feminism has anything to do with his ability to do this.
Bonus points:
He describes his wife as a “diamond in the rough of female entitlement.”
He thinks the artificial womb is a hair’s breadth away from being realized and apparently the state will like this something something.
Even more bonuser points:
Antsy shows up in the comments to contend that the artificial womb will be a boon to mankind.
I hadn’t realized there was such a strong anarcho-capitalist presence at AVfM, nor that its contributors regularly posted science fiction.
Here’s a video from another youtube user “owning” RockingMrE:
From the description:
“This can be seen as an overall pwnage of RockingMrE as of late mixed with some earlier stuff as well he is a objectivist and anarcho-capitalist and MRA who loves to call anyone disagrees, marxist and politicaly-correct and cultural marxist and post modern.”
Accurate, I’d say.
I think the artificial womb would be a brilliant invention.
@Shadow
LOL! didn’t he say it was “fourfty percent?” XD
Kirby: The Money Quote is, IMO, this, “Political systems should reflect real political power to be most effective
In other words, men had the power (because they had the vote) so men should be the only ones who have the vote, because they have the power.
Begging the question, and making a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Isn’t the assumption more “men are bigger and stronger than women and can beat them up, therefore men have the power, which should be reflected in who’s able to vote”? Or am I mixing up multiple articles/comments?
RockingMrE….OMG In the immortal words of James Earl Jones, NOooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
He has NO IDEA what feminism is. None. Refuses to learn. No matter what evidence he is given he just chases his tail. It does cause him to malfunction though, his comments get very broken robot, funny when challenged.
His FIRST video was wanting to explore the economic repercussions of women working. We were like, YEAH! Good idea! Next do black people!!! Do black people!! And he was like ergh.. well, I don’t think that the analysis would apply to black people because…. and some totally incoherent BS after that. M first comment on that video was a parody, “right on man.” and he did not get the parody. The second one was the black people, and the third one was the direct question/critique and he was like, “you just agreed with me earler”
and I said, no , that was parody I was joking. And EVERY subsequent comment in the argument was “first you agreed with me”… “But you first said you agreed with me”… no….listen…to…me RockingMrEvil… I…was…joking…it…was…parody…
sigh. I’ve been meaning to do a video on him for awhile. He quotes Steinem, like one
quote and claims that quote means she’s anti family. The quote does NOT mean that,
but also it’s one quote compared to tons of others. And the facts are that family DID used
to mean something horribly oppressive for women. The quote that he uses, she was RIGHT.
I think numanist (not exact screen name) did much better pwnage of him. I’ll have to check.
Oh my God, that comment wasn’t a parody?
I just don’t know anymore, man.
The RockinMrE of the Man Boobz comments is not the real RockinMrE.
If I had known that there WAS a real RockinMrE I wouldn’t have let the comment through. And I’m going to ban the imposter acct., and put the person who did it on moderation.
Impersonating other people, big no no. Do not do it. Even if the person you’re impersonating is a giant asshole.
Also, I’m sort of tired of joke Poes here, unless they’re really, really obviously fake.
I was reading through the comments backwards, and didn’t realize that people were referring to a post here on manboobz, when I read it I was like…hmm… yeah does not seem like his handiwork. Seems like his ideas all smashed into one, but, likely not him. However… I wonder if I know who the parody poster was? Know “of”, let’s be specific. Yeah, if someone is going to do parody, plz don’t use real names or personalities and why not just not do them, because I would hate to spend time arguing with a joke comment. 🙁
I am posting this because it is the first time I have ever heard the word “mangina” spoken aloud by a human being.
How anyone can ever possibly take themselves seriously again after saying that aloud, I will never understand.
That RockingMrE is one pleasant character. And to think I once actually took him seriously! I myself tried to reason with him in the past, but like other critics I was instantly barraged with labels like “fascist” and “misandrist”. I admit my response wasn’t emotionally appropriate (I was very angry at the time) he made me very upset by generalizing me and being very manipulative.
And yes, I was the Poe. I won’t do it again. I didn’t know it was that bad to impersonate people. But I just needed to dig him in the ribs with a little satire. 😉
Eopyk’s response video was brilliant.
I made a Paul Elam version of Mr. Rageface, using his Hunter S. Thompson wannabe icon as reference.
http://i.imgur.com/EB7zi.png
Epic RockingMrEvil thumbnail is epic. Also, if that’s your first “mangina”? So you’re not familiar with Bernard Chapin, pinegrove33, “A Wandering Cauldron of…” factually incorrect information.