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Thanks! And, once again, big thanks to all who’ve already donated. I’ve been amazed and humbled by the response, which was greater than I had ever expected. Seriously, you rock. Now back to our regularly scheduled programming:
[TW for rape apologism and domestic violence.]
Paul Elam of A Voice for Men has responded to the Southern Poverty Law Center report on the Men’s Rights Movement with an letter to the organization’s head. Apparently, the SPLC is confused, and AVFM isn’t hateful at all! Indeed, it’s like the opposite of hateful. Loveful, you might call it. Here’s Elam:
Contrary to what readers of your site may be led to believe, the goals of SPLC and AVfM are quite similar: We both work to identify groups who seek to oppress others, and inform the public of the inequities they would perpetuate. … The work of AVfM is vital and, despite what you may think, not dissimilar from the goals and aims of the SPLC.
Indeed, AVFM might better be thought of as “a human rights organization.”
Elam also clears up a little matter of terminology:
[T]he term “mangina” is not a euphemism for “weak men,” but rather a label for men who enable and excuse female misconduct – ranging from physical violence to exculpatory false reporting of crimes … – solely because the offender is female (and to gain women’s approval).
I think I can speak for all manginas when I say, thanks for the clarification, Paul!
At the end of the letter, Elam gets all Martin Luther King on us:
Those who fear truth, and brand it as hatred and bigotry, hide behind the worst kind of cowardice – the sniveling complacency that for generations allowed the rich to starve the poor, for one person to own another because of the color of their skin, and for the officers at Nuremberg to claim they were “just following orders.” …
This movement will grow, as it has since its inception, and the time will come when the SPLC (and other groups) must admit our fundamental similarities and aspirations. I am inviting you, with open arms, to do just that.
The alternative, I fear, is that you come down on the wrong side of history, with the likes of Dred Scott as your legacy.
Inspiring stuff, Paul. Nazis, Dred Scott– you totally nailed it. Who could possibly doubt your passion, or your deeply moral vision?
Here’s a link to his letter.
Oh, wait, that wasn’t a link to his letter. That was a link to a post of his in which he tells a feminist that:
I am not going to stop. You see, I find you, as a feminist, to be a loathsome, vile piece of human garbage. I find you so pernicious and repugnant that the idea of fucking your shit up gives me an erection.
Here’s the link to his letter.
Oops! That was actually a link to a post in which he suggests that “vermin” like me (and another feminist writer who has also been critical of the Men’s Rights movement) deserve to be killed. Or have something awful and permanent happen to us that would solve “the problem” that is us. He’s a little vague.
Here, at long last, is the link.
Oh, sorry, that’s actually a link to a post in which Paul puckishly suggested that October, currently designated as Domestic Violence Awareness Month, should be renamed “Bash a Violent Bitch Month.” As he explained:
I’d like to make it the objective for the remainder of this month, and all the Octobers that follow, for men who are being attacked and physically abused by women – to beat the living shit out of them. I don’t mean subdue them, or deliver an open handed pop on the face to get them to settle down. I mean literally to grab them by the hair and smack their face against the wall till the smugness of beating on someone because you know they won’t fight back drains from their nose with a few million red corpuscles.
And then make them clean up the mess.
What a wit!
Anyway, here’s the letter.
Gosh darn it. I’m not doing too well with links at the moment. That’s actually a link to a post in which Elam suggests that women who drink and go home with men are “freaking begging” to be raped:
Damn near demanding it.
And all the outraged PC demands to get huffy and point out how nothing justifies or excuses rape won’t change the fact that there are a lot of women who get pummeled and pumped because they are stupid (and often arrogant) enough to walk though life with the equivalent of a I’M A STUPID, CONNIVING BITCH – PLEASE RAPE ME neon sign glowing above their empty little narcissistic heads.
I guess that’s what they call “human rights advocacy” right there.
Ok, finally, the letter:
Damn. That wasn’t even by Paul. No, that was a guest post on A Voice for Men by a fellow named Keith, with an explanation for why men don’t just beat women all the time. (It’s not why you’d think!)
Let’s face it guys if it was about size or domination, or patriarchy or anything other than power, wouldn’t we be kicking the shit out of women on a daily basis in the streets? The only reason men don’t randomly pound the shit out of women who can’t keep their mouths shut, is because they don’t mean anything to us and they have no power over or in our lives. They are not worth the trouble! That’s the only reason there isn’t bodies strewn all over the streets.
That’s enough human rights advocacy for me for now. Here’s the actual link to Elam’s letter.
—
This post contains some
Steersman, don’t go claiming that a Funny or Die video is a threat to men everywhere. You can if you want, but it makes you look none too bright.
Steersman…
You are not very bright.
Really? From sketch comedy to Auschwitz in one fell swoop? That’s got to be some sort of Godwin record, right?
Here:
http://www.foulmouthshirts.com/New-Shirts/PRO-CHOICE-T-SHIRT.htmirts/THIS-BITCH-DIDNT-KNOW-WHEN-TO-KEEP-HER-MOUTH-SHUT-DO-YOU-T-SHIRT.htm
http://www.foulmouthshirts.com/New-Shirts/MAYBE-ONE-DAY-I-WILL-UNDERSTAND-WOMEN-T-SHIRT.htm
http://www.foulmouthshirts.com/New-Shirts/NO-MEANS-YES-YES-MEANS-ANAL-T-SHIRT.htm
http://www.foulmouthshirts.com/offensive-t-shirts/Retarded%20people%20make%20better%20sex%20slaves!%20T-shirt%20-%20Offensive%20T-shirts.htm
So, we done here? We’re not going to be throwing down the distasteful t-shirt card anymore, are we?
@Steersman Are you seriously, seriously citing a site that promotes spaying/neutering of pets as an example of why men are justifiably angry? (Those are dog balls they’re talking about: you know that, right?) boomboom is right; you wouldn’t survive 12 hours as a woman in this world if a site as totally innocuous as that one qualifies as even the TIP of an iceberg for you.
@makomk When my husband had a vasectomy, they did not ask my permission. Nor should they have.
@CaptainBathrobe:
No, as far as I know it doesn’t cut both ways. Not only that, but the making the final decision isn’t a matter of “that’s good enough,” it’s “that’s not what I want yet.” 😐
Anyway… Point is that what MRAs call equality is just giving men more power over women. Then framing women having control of their bodies as having power over men. Then some really silly stuff that would be laughable if there wasn’t a body at the other end of the net actually believing what zie types…
Well, if Funny Or Die videos are suddenly proof positive of shit:
http://www.funnyordie.com/embed/251fa6410bWomen’s Health Experts Speak Out from Judd Nelson http://www.facebook.com/plugins/like.php?app_id=138711277798&href=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.funnyordie.com%2Fvideos%2F251fa6410b%2Fwomen-s-health-experts-speak-out&send=false&layout=button_count&width=150&show_faces=false&action=like&height=21
huh, that didn’t work
http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/251fa6410b/women-s-health-experts-speak-out
Well, at least we have a new troll. I do miss the classics like NWO and Meller though.
I read and post often in Mens Rights, I am not anti-feminist so long as the feminist in question does not hold her existence above a mans, very much in the same way I do not hold mine above a womans. To do so is sexist, for a woman to do so is sexist.
I think it is fine to say that these remarks from AVFM are childish, insulting and hateful, but let us also admit that such things have come from the mouths of women. Women who make a lot of noise about being feminists. I note however that hateful anti-male feminist sites talk about killing men at birth, wiping out the entire male “species” assume guilt before innocents etc etc etc and these sites which in many cases go far and beyond those that the the SPLC listed are strangely absent from any hate list, to me this is nothing short of double standards and propaganda.
The majority of men who have made it as far to a male rights resource have a legitimate reason to be there, men just do not have the support mechanisms in place to help them anywhere near as much as women, it’s a sad fact. It’s also a sad fact that some of these men have been shit on so much that they can no longer function as a voice for male rights, but they still stick around and pollute the waters. I have as much pity for them as I do disdain, that being said I call a bigot when I see a bigot, weather that bigot be posting on behalf of mens rights or a woman belittling men and their struggles while still championing her own.
America is basically litmus paper, there is something very much in the way its population is raised that makes them believe they are always right and everyone else is wrong, it’s also a hotbed of extremists, probably more so than any faction of Muslims America may invade and kill for being exactly that, but then we see this “I’m never wrong” extremism filter through society into feminist groups and mans groups alike. Yet we live in a society that labels the men that do these things as “hate groups” and women guilty of the same and even worse behavior are ignored and not pulled on their bigotry in any real meaningful way.
Male Genital Mutilation – Much ignored in men, demonized in women.
Child Custody – Heavily in favor of the female parent regardless of statistical evidence of abuse and consequences of removing a father totally from the childs life, which is all to easy to do with no valid reason.
Bias Gender Based Laws – A persons chromosomal make up has no place in the laws of an equal society.
Male Suicide Rates – Disproportionately high when compared to women, men don’t get anywhere near the same level of support.
Spousal Abuse – Men are very much a victim of violence in a relationship, perhaps just as much as women looking at some reports but men are a joke if they complain and a monster if they hit back. Very few refuges exist for male victims.
Pregnancy/Abortion – Men have no say in this what so ever should an unplanned pregnancy occur, he pays for the child or he accepts the termination with no say what so ever. This one is a hard argument but one men are excluded from without any thought to their humanity.
Rape – It’s apparently impossible for a woman to sexually assault a man, even if she has a gun or drugged him, or is notably larger than him.
These are just some examples of inequalities faced by men, men who may very well find themselves at one of these so called hates sites given that they have so few other options in life. Does anyone reading this think that this is fair to brandish victims as monsters because a few individuals are without reason? How is that any different than hating a womans rights group because one woman goes around saying “All men are rapists without exception” or “all men should be drowned at birth”. I don’t think it’s fair and to be honest I feel pretty sick about the whole thing.
I don’t confuse womans rights with feminism, I do however see an association, why associate mens rights with masculinists (the true opposite of feminism, man celebrating man, like women celebrating women, for those of you wondering) or more likely why are men associated as chauvinist for speaking out against bigoted women? Is it out of order to call someone on their hatred because they are a woman and you are a man. Is that not “EQUALITY WHEN IT BENEFITS ME”? And is that not disgusting to any educated person?
TLDR; To sum it all up the the SPLC article was shockingly ill advised, one sided and derogatory to victims.
Most of the articles I’ve read agree that bar crawlers and egalitarians do not belong with armed secessionists. Radical far-right cottage publications like Business Insider, Reason Magazine, etc.
Welcome to the fifth and final day of the Man Boobz Pledge Drive. If you haven’t already, please consider clicking the little button below and sending a few bucks my way.
Didn’t he write financial advice?
@Kirby,
Oh, well that sucks, then. All he’s doing delegating the work, while still maintaining the decision making power. A nice deal for him, but not terribly sustainable over the long run.
Carl, I think you’re the one confusing advocating for men’s issues and hate-groups who are not pro-men but anti-women and anti-feminists. Calling them a hate group has nothing to do with hating men, or not caring about them.
It’s not not just a few rotten apples, it’s a whole rotten basket. Again, I mean the manosphere, AVfM and co, not men in general. They’re a small group, yet this blog is filled with countless of examples of hatred. And on the other side of the balance, no good deed, no accomplishment.
Among the issue you’ve raised is pregnancy. What would you wish, that men have the right to decide whether or not to continue the pregnancy they helped to start?
In that issue:
Firebombings of abortion clinics (brief)
Anti-gay junk science (second billing)
The controversy over Lowes withdrawing ads from the Muslim reality show (brief)
Something about sheriff Arpaio (brief)
Conspiracy theories about UN Agenda 21 (second billing)
Online misogynists and PUAs (second billing)
Expansion of the Patriot Movement (on the front cover)
The misogynists do not exactly look like the odd ones out here, especially given the violence and hateful rhetoric that has occurred. A pretty lame criticism, in short.
IR: It is commonly accepted as polite to pay for things that entertain one. On the Internet, the most usual method of paying for things is via donation.
And that’s ignoring the loaded use of the term “egalitarians.”
I lol’d.
Moe sees Pick Up Artists and arsonists in the same magazine. Moe thinks people who don’t call women back after having sex with them are on the same level as people who burn down buildings.
And that is how the feminist mind works, ladies and gents. Give Moe a hand, she’s a good girl and has done a good job.
Carl, please go learn the difference between radical feminists and the rest. If you bring up the classic Undead Zombie Feminists, you lose.
If you can’t see the difference between radfems–who are not even trying be mainstream and really aren’t venerated–and Paul “fucking their shit up gives me a boner” Elam, that is squarely on you.
FactFinder, what the fuck are you on about?
How’s PreggoPunchout going?
So, how are the riches and fame coming along from the video game industry, IR/FF/PreggoPunchNJudy?
Hellkell, you have jinxed me and now owe me a Coke.
OK. I’ll spring for that coke.
Bostonian, did you ever make it to ATX? Sorry for the crap weather if you did!
[blockquote]Male Genital Mutilation – Much ignored in men, demonized in women.[/blockquote]
It is primarily men who promote circumcision for “health” reasons as well as “religious” reasons. Besides, while, in my opinion, circumcising children is wrong, let’s not equate two things that are nowhere near identical. FGM is an extreme form of mutilation that not only deprives a woman of the ability to enjoy sex, but creates permanent and excruciating problems — such as prolonged and extremely painful urination, prolonged menstruation, chronic infections and extremely painful sex. This practice also calls into question the culture in which men are so terrified of women being into sex that they subject their daughters to such barbarities.
[blockquote]Child Custody – Heavily in favor of the female parent regardless of statistical evidence of abuse and consequences of removing a father totally from the childs life, which is all to easy to do with no valid reason.[/blockquote]
This is simply false. It is actually very difficult to remove a father totally from a child’s life, and happens in one of two cases: (1) where the father would rather not have anything to do with the child than contribute one red cent towards that child’s expenses; or (2) where the father has been conclusively proven to be abusive and dangerous.
As for women usually getting physical custody — and in the majority of cases, by amicable agreement — this is a consequence of women generally doing the bulk of child care and most sacrifices for the sake of the family. I am fully in favor of men getting custody as much as women — but that is contingent upon men doing as much childcare as women and giving up their dreams and their careers just as often. It’s a little to late to start being a caring and involved father after you get served with divorce papers. As they say, no pain, no gain. And generally speaking, a father who changes as many diapers as the mother has an equal chance of getting custody in the event of a divorce.
[blockquote]Bias Gender Based Laws – A persons chromosomal make up has no place in the laws of an equal society.[/blockquote]
If you refuse to solve or even acknowledge a problem, don’t complain if someone else solves it for you. A person’s chromosomal make up has no place in an equal society — but as long as society continues to subject people to harassment and inferior treatment on the basis of their chromosomal make-up, that make-up will continue to be a factor in laws.
[blockquote]Male Suicide Rates – Disproportionately high when compared to women, men don’t get anywhere near the same level of support.[/blockquote]
I will grant you that male suicide rates are disproportionately high. However, cultivating paranoia in emotionally vulnerable men, calling for violence, cheering mass murder, ruminating about some imminent anti-woman revolution and preaching that women are to blame for every problem in the world, including the kitchen sink, will do NOTHING to drive men’s suicide rates down. If anything, this kind of “activism” will drive them UP.
[blockquote]Spousal Abuse – Men are very much a victim of violence in a relationship, perhaps just as much as women looking at some reports but men are a joke if they complain and a monster if they hit back. Very few refuges exist for male victims.[/blockquote]
Men do not become victims of domestic violence nearly as much as women — we’ve covered that over and over. Family and friends are generally more likely to side with the man in the event of a conflict, and men have greater financial resources for leaving and starting a new life.
[blockquote]Pregnancy/Abortion – Men have no say in this what so ever should an unplanned pregnancy occur, he pays for the child or he accepts the termination with no say what so ever. This one is a hard argument but one men are excluded from without any thought to their humanity.[/blockquote]
Your comment bears no trace of thought of women’s humanity. Why the fuck should you have a say over what happens to someone else’s body? Yeah, it sucks if the woman’s plans don’t coincide with yours, but you know what else sucks? Pregnancy and all that it entails: the threat of death; the threat of developing chronic and debilitating conditions; the serious derailment of your career; the medical expenses (which men don’t have to cover); the discomfort; the insomnia; being fucking unable to breathe for months; the swollen feet; the absolutely INSANE pain of childbirth; the piece of shit that your body is after you’ve gone through it; and, if you choose to abort, the emotional pain and the social opprobrium of being the one to actually pull the plug. You don’t get pregnant; you don’t get to abort. You, as a man, will experience NONE of the pain, the dangers, the permanent damage to your health and the personal economic consequences of pregnancy. The price you pay for that, is that you don’t get to decide what happens to the person who DOES have to bear all this shit. Get over yourself.
[blockquote]Rape – It’s apparently impossible for a woman to sexually assault a man, even if she has a gun or drugged him, or is notably larger than him.[/blockquote]
This is hardly a feminist belief. On the contrary, this is a highly patriarchal view, invariably promoted by anti-feminists. Maybe if you stop objectifying women, people will have less difficulty recognizing it when men are being objectified.
Apparently Carl is yet another mra who lives in a parallel universe, because all of that shit is factually false (except that men can’t control pregnant women’s bodies, which is hardly a fucking oppression or tragedy) in this reality.
@IR:
…. Wut?
No seriously… what? Talk about selective reading… Grah.
Of all the things in that paragraph to emphasize… You want to claim that “not calling back” is the reason that Roosh is on this list. FFS…
Kirby, to our friend PreggoPunchout, a hate fuck (and taking that shit on the road) is A-OK, but not calling is the real tragedy here. He’s not real smart.