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[TW for rape apologism and domestic violence.]
Paul Elam of A Voice for Men has responded to the Southern Poverty Law Center report on the Men’s Rights Movement with an letter to the organization’s head. Apparently, the SPLC is confused, and AVFM isn’t hateful at all! Indeed, it’s like the opposite of hateful. Loveful, you might call it. Here’s Elam:
Contrary to what readers of your site may be led to believe, the goals of SPLC and AVfM are quite similar: We both work to identify groups who seek to oppress others, and inform the public of the inequities they would perpetuate. … The work of AVfM is vital and, despite what you may think, not dissimilar from the goals and aims of the SPLC.
Indeed, AVFM might better be thought of as “a human rights organization.”
Elam also clears up a little matter of terminology:
[T]he term “mangina” is not a euphemism for “weak men,” but rather a label for men who enable and excuse female misconduct – ranging from physical violence to exculpatory false reporting of crimes … – solely because the offender is female (and to gain women’s approval).
I think I can speak for all manginas when I say, thanks for the clarification, Paul!
At the end of the letter, Elam gets all Martin Luther King on us:
Those who fear truth, and brand it as hatred and bigotry, hide behind the worst kind of cowardice – the sniveling complacency that for generations allowed the rich to starve the poor, for one person to own another because of the color of their skin, and for the officers at Nuremberg to claim they were “just following orders.” …
This movement will grow, as it has since its inception, and the time will come when the SPLC (and other groups) must admit our fundamental similarities and aspirations. I am inviting you, with open arms, to do just that.
The alternative, I fear, is that you come down on the wrong side of history, with the likes of Dred Scott as your legacy.
Inspiring stuff, Paul. Nazis, Dred Scott– you totally nailed it. Who could possibly doubt your passion, or your deeply moral vision?
Here’s a link to his letter.
Oh, wait, that wasn’t a link to his letter. That was a link to a post of his in which he tells a feminist that:
I am not going to stop. You see, I find you, as a feminist, to be a loathsome, vile piece of human garbage. I find you so pernicious and repugnant that the idea of fucking your shit up gives me an erection.
Here’s the link to his letter.
Oops! That was actually a link to a post in which he suggests that “vermin” like me (and another feminist writer who has also been critical of the Men’s Rights movement) deserve to be killed. Or have something awful and permanent happen to us that would solve “the problem” that is us. He’s a little vague.
Here, at long last, is the link.
Oh, sorry, that’s actually a link to a post in which Paul puckishly suggested that October, currently designated as Domestic Violence Awareness Month, should be renamed “Bash a Violent Bitch Month.” As he explained:
I’d like to make it the objective for the remainder of this month, and all the Octobers that follow, for men who are being attacked and physically abused by women – to beat the living shit out of them. I don’t mean subdue them, or deliver an open handed pop on the face to get them to settle down. I mean literally to grab them by the hair and smack their face against the wall till the smugness of beating on someone because you know they won’t fight back drains from their nose with a few million red corpuscles.
And then make them clean up the mess.
What a wit!
Anyway, here’s the letter.
Gosh darn it. I’m not doing too well with links at the moment. That’s actually a link to a post in which Elam suggests that women who drink and go home with men are “freaking begging” to be raped:
Damn near demanding it.
And all the outraged PC demands to get huffy and point out how nothing justifies or excuses rape won’t change the fact that there are a lot of women who get pummeled and pumped because they are stupid (and often arrogant) enough to walk though life with the equivalent of a I’M A STUPID, CONNIVING BITCH – PLEASE RAPE ME neon sign glowing above their empty little narcissistic heads.
I guess that’s what they call “human rights advocacy” right there.
Ok, finally, the letter:
Damn. That wasn’t even by Paul. No, that was a guest post on A Voice for Men by a fellow named Keith, with an explanation for why men don’t just beat women all the time. (It’s not why you’d think!)
Let’s face it guys if it was about size or domination, or patriarchy or anything other than power, wouldn’t we be kicking the shit out of women on a daily basis in the streets? The only reason men don’t randomly pound the shit out of women who can’t keep their mouths shut, is because they don’t mean anything to us and they have no power over or in our lives. They are not worth the trouble! That’s the only reason there isn’t bodies strewn all over the streets.
That’s enough human rights advocacy for me for now. Here’s the actual link to Elam’s letter.
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This post contains some
Wow. These guys are just so angry. How does it get to this?
This kerfuffle made Reddit significantly more entertaining.
The scariest thing about Paul Elam is that I think he actually believes all the shit he says.
Thank you, David. That letter needed to be exposed. Any thoughts on why Angry Harry escaped the SPLC radar?
David, you are a wonderful person, and you are hilarious.
With that said, reading those things make me ill.
But just imagine the SPLC reading that letter. Can’t you just see them gathered in a circle and laughing?
Fidelbogen commented,
Sure, Fidelbogen, having your site called out for its hate is exactly like a fucking tornado. Seriously, think about what you write before you write it.
I am very pleased to see SAVE singled out as one of the misogynistic groups. They try very hard to look respectable, but their agenda is no better than AVfM and the Spearhead. Now I can direct people to the SPLC when I state why the MRM is the Abusers’ Lobby.
*sigh* I really hate context arguments sometimes. Because he never actually goes on to mention what the context was, or to provide the context for the quotes. He just goes on to assert that “you and I aren’t so different after all.”
Huh… What about all those claims of thousands or millions of MRAs ready to take the world by storm? Apparently stormfront has 130,000 registered members, and used to have around 20,000 active members before 2008 (number from an SPLC page).
Apparently the spearhead has a little over 800 (“many of whom are probably only occasional users” – source).
The first link. Does it not dawn on them that their complaints that talking about rape and DV does not “PAINT” all men as anything? Yet when a woman makes that claim it’s laughable? I mean… I’m at a loss for words.
Also I was looking to see if he was talking to vermin when he said those disgusting things to this random women. No, she just wondered if those sites were ok. Disagree with her, fine, but wow. The violent speech speaks for itself.
Fucking Christ. You want to talk about tornadoes, Fidelbogen, you piece of shit? Let me tell you about tornadoes. I drove home for spring break last Friday THROUGH a tornado. I had to stop due to the rain completely destroying my visibility, and had repeated phone calls from my horrified family members asking if I was all right. Then I got to drive through the aftermath of a nearby community whose entire school system was destroyed, along with dozens of homes, and I got to look at all the cars that had been utterly demolished while trying to drive away. And the icing on the cake is that I got to spend the entire weekend hearing about the status of a child who had been carried ten miles by the storm while her family had been instantly killed, and she didn’t make it.
In conclusion, Fidelbogen, your bullshit movement is more comparable to the funnel formed when one drains a bathtub than it is to any force of nature. Fuck yourself.
@kirby I suspect that “A Voice For Men has more than 90 registered contributors is a veiled deflection. He didn’t WANT to say the next line outright, “and I might not agree with all of them”…
He can’t say that because he does agree with all of them. But he put that in there to see if that would go over. I pulled up the articles where serial killers were held up as victims and warnings, and the ones I found were written by JohnTheOther, not Paul. He likely loves what John writes. Yet there’s that have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too by just throwing that out there that there are lots of contributors. I mean he didn’t even say “and opinions, or expressions of those opinions may vary” He’s hoping that will go over without him having to flat out distance himself. It would be a lie anyway.
AMEN!
I am so sorry for your experience, Lauralot. That must have been very frightening. I know a lot of what you’re going through, because we had quite an ordeal in Joplin last year with a tornado. If you ever want to talk about it at the forums, I’ll do anything I can to help. I’m just as mad at you. I look out my windows at dirt lots where houses used to be, where my neighbors died, and here Fidelbogen is saying the MRM is like a fucking tornado. What an asshole.
[applause]
Futrelle, we are going to win. We will not stop until we have achieved equal protection under the law for men, boys, and fathers. We will not stop until we have achieved equal protecvtion of government for men, boys and fathers.
After we have won, our struggle will be written into history. You will be remembered also, for what you have done. You will share company with other historical figures who have fought for sexism and intolerance, such as Samuel Bowers, William Joseph Simmons and Richard Girnt Butler.
Do not doubt for an instant that this will occur. We want no more than equality. No more than equal treatment by our government. We will win.
Antz, shouldn’t you be spending time with your FOREIGN BRIDE?
Thanks, Kendra. Thankfully, no one I knew personally was harmed (though one family friend was in the school while it collapsed, he managed to get out safely). Still, it’s sickening to see MRAs try to compare themselves to such horrible tragedies. They redefine the phrase “tempest in a teapot.”
Comment from “Codebuster:”
See, that’ll prove that MRAs don’t advocate violence!
Nope, they merely “predict” “actions and reactions.” That could mean anything. I’m sure he’s talking about letters to the editor.
Also, wow, he thinks people are all going to stand up and take sides on the MRM. Of the people I know in real life, the only ones who know what “MRA” stands for are the ones who read Manboobz.
“I find you so pernicious and repugnant that the idea of fucking your shit up gives me an erection.”
” I mean literally to grab them by the hair and smack their face against the wall till the smugness of beating on someone because you know they won’t fight back drains from their nose with a few million red corpuscles.”
The only reason men don’t randomly pound the shit out of women who can’t keep their mouths shut, is because they don’t mean anything to us and they have no power over or in our lives.
EQUALITY
EQUALITY
EQUALITY
Equality is “fucking your shit up,” apparently.
Darn, less impotent rage than I guessed, but I was right on the baaawing. I should have gone with the thin blanket of pious denial approach.
“I don’t hate women, I just think men are oppressed!”
“I don’t hate homosexuals, I just hate their sin!”
“I’m not against blacks/Jews/Muslims/whatever, I’m just pro the white race!”
Thanks for exposing Elam as the lying sack of hypocritical shit that he is. He can’t even hide behind the “I only provide the platform for others I don’t necessarily agree with” excuse, since he wrote those vile words himself.
@AntZ:
Oooh, so feminists are like white supremacists now? I thought white supremacists were on your side of the field…
You don’t have to wait that long, take a look!
Do not doubt for an instant that this will occur.
Too late, I am doubting.
Doubting.
Doubting.
Doubting.
Aww, a blockquote disappeared… 🙁 Fiddly things, those blockquotes.
For a little taste of what a poster on the spearhead thinks of equality, here is someone philosophizing on how to equalize men’s rights on reproduction.
A little story about a couple I know. They are husband and wife but have problems because the wife feels like she never gets to make any decisions. The husband thinks this is absurd, because for example when they go out to pick furniture for their house, the husband lets the wife pick out what she likes. All he asks is to have the final say on what they end up buying.
Of course, what this means is that the wife doesn’t actually have any choice at all, because her opinion is superseded by her husband’s. Equality!
Looks like Antsy is going to denial again. Poor thing. The VR form was better.
Graham: The scariest thing isn’t Paul Elam. It’s that people say he’s moderate. That people like Roberta refuse to admit he, and his fellow travellers, are (at core) violent.
@Holly
I think more people would take sides on the MRM if they knew about it. Only it wouldn’t be the side they think. Normal people would take one look at some of the hateful rhetoric the MRMers spew and decide they didn’t want anything to do with it. There may even be a backlash.
It’s a shame because some of the things Elam mentions in his letter are real issues. Too bad he only uses them as an attempt to distract attention from his own hateful views. When has he ever volunteered to help homeless men or donated to prostate cancer research? I’m betting never.
Men are currently the privileged class. You want to be equal with women? You want to be denied rights over your body, raped in higher numbers, paid less, make up a disproportionately small percentage of all parts of government, etc.? No, you fucking don’t actually wanted to be treated equally to a woman, you want the law to maintain and further your oppression of women.