[TW for the comments to this post; discussions of rape and abuse.]
The Southern Poverty Law Center, an organization devoted to tracking and exposing hate groups, has just published a detailed report on the misogyny and violent rhetoric so pervasive in the Men’s Rights Movement — as well as the actual violence inspired by this sort of hatred of women. It’s a piece you all should read, even though few of the details will be new to long-time readers of this blog.
Arthur Goldwag, an expert on conspiracy-mongers and the far right, argues (I think correctly) that the Men’s Rights movement is largely a backlash against the many successes of feminism over the last several decades:
It’s not much of a surprise that significant numbers of men in Western societies feel threatened by dramatic changes in their roles and that of the family in recent decades. Similar backlashes, after all, came in response to the civil rights movement, the gay rights movement, and other major societal revolutions. What is something of a shock is the verbal and physical violence of that reaction.
[Thomas] Ball’s suicide brought attention to an underworld of misogynists, woman-haters whose fury goes well beyond criticism of the family court system, domestic violence laws, and false rape accusations.
The Men’s Rights Movement, as it exists today, is not a civil rights movement; it is a regressive, hateful reaction against a civil rights movement — that is, feminism.
Those who truly care about the rights of men, and who are not motivated by a hatred of women or feminism, need to repudiate the hate and the violent rhetoric of the Men’s Rights Movement as it exists today. Only then can there be a Men’s Rights Movement worthy of the name.
EDITED TO ADD: The SPLC has also put up a guide to some of the more hateful sites in the manosphere. Longtime readers will be familiar with most of them.
EDITED TO ADD AGAIN: And a piece debunking some Men’s Rights Myths.
EDITED TO ADD AGAIN, AGAIN: The discussion of the SPLC report on the Men’s Rights Subreddit is surprisingly reasonable, so far. (I mean, compared to what I expected. Meanwhile, over in this thread, the Men’s Rightsers are behaving as they usually do.)
“assault” means it’s the other person’s fault. Otherwise it’s not assault. If you were assaulted, then someone perpetrated that. You can’t make someone commit a crime, nor should you coddle criminals.
What a low opinion of men a person would have to have to think that someone that committed an assault is not responsible for their own behavior. It would have a be a situation where the individual was mentally disabled. I have a disabled son, and the burden would still lie with him, regardless of his capacity. I would try to explain as best I could to him, and do what I can, but the burden of guilt would not shift.
For women that prefer to think they MADE someone else do something, maybe that’s their way of taking the power and control back. But, unfortunately, that anger when not directed where it belongs can come out elsewhere, self. of…
oh look…
Well is there a group pointing out that she didn’t have power or control over that situation? Is that painful? Maybe. Maybe. Maybe someone feels more in control over a certain situation by putting forward the agenda that men are animals, and helpless victims, nonthinking creatures that can be tricked into committing an imposition on another. Well, a feminist does not engage in that kind of misandry.
The world being boiled down and simplified to men being big babies might be more safe and comforting for some, but it’s wrong, and so feminism will continue to expose that.
I don’t remember *becoming* a feminist. I remember having both my grandmothers, my mother and my aunt be college educated at a time when this was REALLY not the thing.
I remember being raised Catholic and not getting why girls could only be nuns. I remember the third grader who looked at me and said “Only boys can be priests because God loves them more.”
I remember the 1950s and I remember the racism and the factories firing women who’d worked there during the war. War’s over now honey, get back on home and find yourself a beau. I remember the 60s and 70s and the utter lack of sex education, I remember the girls who went away” to visit an aunt” and who came 6 or 7 months later thinner and tired and SO angry and sad.
I remember driving across a state line to get married because the family disapproved. I remember not being able to buy a car or apply for a job without my husband’s written permission. I remember the friend of mine who was sexually assaulted and the response from her boss was to ask if she had led him on. Oh and to fuss at her for not being on birth control . ‘My father wouldn’t sign the slip, ” she said, I remember how desperate she was not to have to carry her rapist’s child.
I remember her funeral. I remember the doctor who was too busy with his wife (in early labor in another room) and I remember they gave me something called ‘twilight sleep’. I didn’t want it but my husband had signed the paper so that was okay. My infant son was born sound asleep because the doctor couldn’t be bothered to actually figure out that I was (even full term with a 7.5 pound baby) too small to be given dosages intended for people taller and heavier.
I remember. quite simply, over half a century of being shown and told that I am less-than because of my ladyparts. And I remember thinking it was bullshit.
I remember meeting feminists, hearing them speak, seeing them march and organize and knowing that I wanted to do that too.
need to know,
that was powerful and moving, thank you
I vividly remember my first “click” moment. It was in Sunday school. We were learning about Adam and Eve, and my little seven year old self was profoundly sad to learn that women were to blame for sin and for all of the hardships that human beings experience. I didn’t know what feminism was at the time. But I starkly remember the feelings of shame and sadness I felt at that moment.
My next “click” moment was later on, around the age of 12, when I realized that my mother’s day didn’t end until after 9 PM. She got us up in the morning and sent us off to school, then went to work, then came home and made dinner and cleaned up afterward. She never got off her feet until late in the evening. Meanwhile, my father went to work, came home, and sat down in front of the television until dinner, then went back to the television after dinner. They worked the same number of hours at their jobs (my mother actually made more than he did), but my father did zero cooking, zero housework, and zero childcare. I realized that this was incredibly unfair, but no one seemed to say anything about it, and in fact they seemed to think it was perfectly normal. So basically yeah, I was meant to be a feminist from childhood.
I will say that things are better. Every couple my age makes at least some effort to share housework. Actually, all of the men are the ones who do all the cooking. Yes, the women still do the lion’s share of childcare, and they’re also the ones who have to use sick time at work to stay home when their children are ill, but it’s still not as bad as it was with my parent’s generation. And that’s something.
My “click” moment? I became an anti-feminist once it dawned on me that feminism is just chivalry on steroids.
I know why I became a feminist. My family history is the kind that would make the newspapers had the times been different. I remeber hearing at five how my grandmother had repeatedly tried to flee her husband, who was a true psychopath and routinrely tried to kill her and the children. Finally, she took her daughters in the middle of the night and fled to another town while he was passed out drunk. Like all the other times, the cops picked her up for vagrancy and took her before a judge. I guess this judge couldn’t ignore the bruises of how badly she had been beaten or the bruises on my mother and aunt. So he told her she had one month to find work and a home or he would order her to be taken back to her abuser. Until then, her gave her a jail cell as shelter and saw to it that she knew where the local soup kitchen was. At that time the first womens shelter was just opening in toronto. If your family wouldn’t shelter you there was nowhere to go. Then welfare intervened and they helped, but it was like the inquisition, they would show up and question employers, friends, neighbors and toss her house like a police raid to be sure she wasn’t seeing any men. All that just to get food stamps. Her second husband was another kind of abuser, but he didn’t beat her so much so she stayed until he died.
The cycle of abuse was a long one in my family, happily, all of her children realized that abusive behaviour is a choice and they didn’t have to be that way. My uncles can be real chauvinists sometimes, but they see that women are people and capable beings because feminism and changing values showed them that. Unfortunately, what I read on MRA sites is exactly the same thinking and behaviour of the abusers in my family (including my grandmother).
@pillow
Where?
Where are the MRAs arguing that men abusing women is at all acceptable? The most they’ve ever said about DV is that the system should be more gender neutral and should not automatically assume the male is the abuser. Something I think most reasonable people would agree with.
zhinxy:
The problem with the $PLC is that they use accusations of anti-semitism or racism or sexism to intimidate any opposition to their agenda. They have listed EVERY immigration restrictionist group as a hate group. They are practically a branch of the media since the media just reports their press releases as fact.
The $PLC is the left-wing equivalent of people calling Obama a terrorist because he had guilt-by-association with William Ayers, Jeremiah Wright, Farrahkhan, Ghadafi. Obama was friends with Wright who went to visit Ghadafi at the height of Libyan sponspored terrorism with Jeremiah Wright. Therefore Obama = Terrorist! It’s disgusting.
I became a feminist after hearing about MRAs.
I didn’t want to write all MRA’s off as bigoted assholes, I read this article, liked to A Voice for Men and can now finally say “Yea, MRA is a hate group” …. They allude to murdering feminists like…. EVERY EPISODE of their podcast o.O
I almost wish there was an alternative men’s rights movement.
Where they could advocate for some of the legitimate issues that they identify without all the misogyny and focus on hating feminists which is way too prevalent in the current movement.
@Roberta:
Here are two right in the Southern Poverty Law Center article.
@Roberta:
Want a movement dedicated to equality between the sexes?
Why not Feminism?
@kirby
Because feminism does nothing to address men’s issues and often seeks to deny of minimize men’s issues.
NOW has repeatedly opposed legislation aimed at reducing the discrimination that fathers experience in child custody cases. Feminists have also created primary aggressor policies for police that make male DV victims more likely to be arrested than helped if the reach out for assistance.
I also frequently see feminists arguing that false accusations of rape and abuse do not exist, and thus we should do away with all due process and presumption of innocence business. At least for rape, anyway. Probably want to keep that stuff for crimes that women can potentially be accused of.
Roberta there is stuff all over the MRA sites about how men should be able to hits their wives to “maintain discipline and ensure she undertands personal accountability”. They also advocate that women “had it coming” by “nagging”.
What exactly do you think these guys mean when they talk about fucking our shit up? Not doing dishes?
Roberta, citation needed. You are tiresome.
Mags, being assaulted wasn’t your fault. No one deserves that. I also find you likeable when engage rather than troll.
@Roberta Sandolval
Sure they do.
http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2005/12/dont-just-blame-victim-prosecute-her.html
@Roberta: Come in from the field and stop hanging out w/Strawfeminists.
As a feminist, I know women can be accused of rape!
Roberta:
eremiahMRAin MensRights
[–]JeremiahMRA[S] -1 points 23 hours ago
If a woman hits you, and you leave the room, she only gets more angry because she wants you to dominate her. Perhaps she cools down, but she’ll do it again, in due time. You should probably read the articles I linked. The first makes the point that generally men TRY the very strategy you’re talking about, but it doesn’t work, and only makes things worse. Finally, the guy snaps because she has made him so pissed off. It doesn’t matter if you don’t think it’s “right”, that’s what happens, and it could have been prevented. The second article makes the point that with a little corporal punishment, things never would have escalated to that point anyway.
That last line is REALLY important. Ever met an abuser who didn’t state their partner did something to deserve it? Abusers will almost always claim to be the true victim when the police come knocking, in the hopes of getting away with it. And it often works. It also shows how he believes that wife beating should be allowed for good discipline.
Also: inb4 “but but but false accusatyions of *rape* destroy a man’s life, unlike false accusations of burglery or carjacking”
Here’s a very true story:
My Uncle was actually falsely accused of rape. It went to court and everything. He was found not guilty.
And you know what? He’s perfectly fine. He started a photography business. Met a nice woman and they have a very happy life together. He bought a puppy at Christmas. He lives a very happy life, unhindered by any supposed lingering stigma of being falsely accused.
Put that in your pearls and clutch them.
@Halite
Congratulations, you can link to one study from one locality. Who knows what kind of methodology that study employed, either? Do you want me to link you to dozens of studies finding much higher rates of false reporting?
Studies on this issue have placed results all over the map. From 1% all the way to 91% in one (seriously flawed) study. Most of the good studies converge at about 8-10%. That’s high enough to be concerned about the issue.
I strongly suggest you read the article I’ve linked below. It’s written by two feminist lawyers and published in Slate. So there’s no attacking the source. The article discussing the issue in length and compares and contrasts numerous study’s on the issue.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2009/10/how_often_do_women_falsely_cry_rape.html
@pillow
Wow, that comment is completely repugnant. Thank god it was downvoted. See my comment about wishing there was an alternative MRM.
@Halite
http://www.details.com/culture-trends/critical-eye/201106/kevin-driscoll-rape-charges-jail-assault-stigma-reputation?currentPage=1
>>>NOW has repeatedly opposed legislation aimed at reducing the discrimination that fathers experience in child custody cases.
Yep, organizations like NOW often oppose legislation supposedly aimed at solving non-existent problems…
@Blackbloc
Thanks for helping me make my point. There’s a whole profession that disagrees with you, BTW. Even feminist family court attorneys will readily admit that fathers get the shaft.
See here: http://www.seattleweekly.com/2012-01-18/news/ripped-apart/
Seattle Weekly, not exactly a bastion of MRA propaganda. Written by a feminist, as well.
Roberta, its comments like that that are all through the MRA sites. Its in the articles it is in the comments sections. Some of the MRAs want nothing more than to see women either enslaved or exterminated.
There are social justice movements in real life that seek to address the problems of male victims of rape, lack of housing and custody issues with mothers unjustly and illegally denying access to children. And many feminists work with and support those groups. Get it out of your head that all feminists hate men to the point where we are actively attempting to obstruct or deny justice for men.
VAWA had specific provisions to help men, yet the MRAs want to see it burn because women would be helped too.