[TW for the comments to this post; discussions of rape and abuse.]
The Southern Poverty Law Center, an organization devoted to tracking and exposing hate groups, has just published a detailed report on the misogyny and violent rhetoric so pervasive in the Men’s Rights Movement — as well as the actual violence inspired by this sort of hatred of women. It’s a piece you all should read, even though few of the details will be new to long-time readers of this blog.
Arthur Goldwag, an expert on conspiracy-mongers and the far right, argues (I think correctly) that the Men’s Rights movement is largely a backlash against the many successes of feminism over the last several decades:
It’s not much of a surprise that significant numbers of men in Western societies feel threatened by dramatic changes in their roles and that of the family in recent decades. Similar backlashes, after all, came in response to the civil rights movement, the gay rights movement, and other major societal revolutions. What is something of a shock is the verbal and physical violence of that reaction.
[Thomas] Ball’s suicide brought attention to an underworld of misogynists, woman-haters whose fury goes well beyond criticism of the family court system, domestic violence laws, and false rape accusations.
The Men’s Rights Movement, as it exists today, is not a civil rights movement; it is a regressive, hateful reaction against a civil rights movement — that is, feminism.
Those who truly care about the rights of men, and who are not motivated by a hatred of women or feminism, need to repudiate the hate and the violent rhetoric of the Men’s Rights Movement as it exists today. Only then can there be a Men’s Rights Movement worthy of the name.
EDITED TO ADD: The SPLC has also put up a guide to some of the more hateful sites in the manosphere. Longtime readers will be familiar with most of them.
EDITED TO ADD AGAIN: And a piece debunking some Men’s Rights Myths.
EDITED TO ADD AGAIN, AGAIN: The discussion of the SPLC report on the Men’s Rights Subreddit is surprisingly reasonable, so far. (I mean, compared to what I expected. Meanwhile, over in this thread, the Men’s Rightsers are behaving as they usually do.)
Seriously, you come here to be snarky and hate everyone. We get the point. I do hope whoever you really want to be impressed is impressed.
I just hope it is not someone like NWO that you want to be your partner, because he would probably hurt anyone he came in close contact with.
@boomboom
Was this the link? http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/feminist-governance-feminism/descent-into-madness-and-marc-lepine/
It’s women’s own fault when men kill them?
This is a serious question Bostonian, who do you think I’m trying to impress, and to what reason? I’ve heard that line of argument before, that “Just because you’re the only girl on the team doesn’t mean they repect you.” My gender persentation is more complicated than that, and my opinions are not the result of my trying to sleep with the football team….well, maybe they are.
This is a serious question Bostonian, who do you think I’m trying to impress, and to what reason?
If you don’t know, why do you expect us to know? But you’ll never impress us (because you’re clueless and irritating) and you’ll never impress the MRAs (because you’re female); these are both facts.
Actually I’d be interested to hear how you came to believe in the MRA movement, Mags. If you’ve ever explained what happened to convince you that they’re right, I missed it. Most MRAs seem to have some sort of personal story behind their support of the whole idea, so I’d be curious to hear what yours is.
Yes, cloud that was a link and the article is by johntheother, a vlogger on you tube and contributor to AVFM whose fave game is to fear monger and use threat as an argument, “if you wimmenz continue, this is the inevitable outcome” … it’s constant.
Well, I don’t have a good answer. I can tell you what I’ve written before, but it is a imperfect sense of the feelings I have:
“…I like men. No, let me take that back. I love men. I like being with them. I like the way they smell. I like that they are direct; they are honest; they are brave and self-sacrificing. I like that men attempt the impossible, and that even in failure, they are glorious. I like men because they rescue people from burning buildings. I like men for their bravado and expressions of risk – sometimes with devastating results. At least they try. Even in defeat, I am inspired by the attempt. I am horrified that there has been a decades old movement to denigrate, dismiss, slander, abuse, castigate, accuse, and destroy manhood…”
I have found, all my life, that when you get close to a man, he is so simple – honest. It’s just the way I feel.
Huh. That sounds like you’re in love with the idea of men, rather than having much to do with individual, specific men, since some men are all of the things you describe, and others really are quite the opposite, and most are somewhere in between. It almost sounds like a straight female version of what PUAs describe as pedestalizing women.
@mags
Sure you like men (so do I) but that does not explain how you got into the men’s right movement. I did not get into feminism just because I like women.
that’s quite the little fanfic you have there
@mag your post has nothing to do with feminism, and feminism does not do what you claim it does. Evidence? There is evidence of a decline in “bravado”? Sure.
Plus yeah Cassandra has a point you seem to be idealizing men in general rather than apreciating men as individuals. Especially considering not all men are like that (you seem to be describing men in a stereotypical “manly” fashion while most men don’t really fall into all of that).
That’s pretty much it, guys. Sorry, if you were hoping that I am a rapist, woman beater who got forced by family court to pay child support for another man’s baby or something. I don’t live in my mother’s basement, I have a son, I am a professional…I just got asked to be an adjunct prof at a local university. My family income is in the top 10% … I live in San Francisco, I’ve lived in New York….I don’t play video games….I don’t know what you want from me. And if you think I am a fake person, like I’ve always said, I’d be happy to meet you somewhere in San Francisco. It’s hard to intimidate me, and almost impossible to embarrase me. What else???? I see a psychiatrist — I went to berkeley…I was enlisted in the marine corps…i am actually a profoundly nice person when you meet me. I went to burning man last year…someone offered me a ticket to go this year…i own a vw bus and a tear drop trailer. i use public transportation and ride my bikes – one at a time – all the time. I can do track stands on my fixed gear bike, without hold the handlebars. I grew in in So.Cal., I surf…all my life…I use a 6’7″ short board thruster….hmmm…i idealize my youth..i had a good time. i was molested as a kid. I’ve been sexually assaulted, but that was my own fault. i’ve never hit anyone, been arrested, and never tried any drugs except MJ in the nineth grade….i would like to try ectacy though….that’s about it.
I do find it funny that a self described mra strictly catagorizes men in such a sterotypical way (especially when many mras complain about this). Not all men are brave, save people, are honest/direct, or are risk takers. (Of course you imply women can’t be any of those)
That’s right Mags. All men are perfect. And women are worthless right? They aren’t capable of any of those things you listed. The MRM reminds us of this all the time. They are no better than radical feminists that pretended that women were perfect and could do no wrong. When you say shit like that it is called generalizing. It might even make the group you are worshiping feel good for a bit, but it isn’t true. Its the same when those ConciousMen guys wrote all women as perfect and goddesses…it’s just not the truth.
All the feminist movement did was demand the same rights and opportunities that men automatically were given. If women were assumed to be capable and were given those same rights and opportunities, there would not have been a need for feminism. They also identified issues that women face specifically like pregnancy and changed laws to enable women to not be slaves to their biology. Yes their were radicals. Yes they went to far and ruined a lot of the movement in my opinion. But you fail to realize they are largely dismissed by 3rd wave feminists who also have men in their lives they love and appreciate. Its sad that you can’t recognize this.
eh people aren’t interested in your life story, they just want to know how you got into the mra movement. I could talk about how I got into the feminist movement mags so I dunno what is so hard to understand.
tell me how u got into the feminist movement then.
not until you tell me how you got into the mra movement ;P
* is ignoring obvious trolling XD
I notice that Magdelyn has made this implicit claim that feminists don’t like men.
Quakers, I would label myself a feminist if I actually thought that it was not gynocentric. That is to say, that I feel that feminists fight for women no matter what the equities. I feel like guys are vilified in this society and I think third wave feminism does the villification. I believe that advocacy research is rampant in feminist scholarship. If you take a look at marcotte, valenti or any of todays famous feminists, they are pretty much aweful people – at least in their advocacy. I have lived much of my life as a guy…that’s what I believe. I look at someone like hugo schwyzer and want to vomit. it’s the way i feel.
Also Mags I think you fail to also realize when you idealize a gender like that it can also inadvertently harm people of that gender AND people of other genders. Painting men as brave and self-sacrificing…that is a lot of pressure to put on men and I bet your buddy Elam would tear you a new one for expecting men to fight and sacrifice themselves for you or some shit. This idea of masculinity also harms individual men by making them think they must be brave regardless of consequences. Enroll in the military! you want to be a brave man right?
In the same way a woman can look at the idealized female role of purity, nurturing, youthfulness and drop dead gorgeousness and feel like shit for not fulfilling it.
@Cassandra:
It reminds me of when some men will say something sexist, and then when called on it protest “What? But I love women!” by which they mean, “What? But I love attractive thin feminine white women between the ages of 18-25!” showing that they don’t think any other kind of women properly counts.
There are many men I love, but I love them for who they are as individuals. The same is true of the many women I love. I care about people in the abstract, but I wouldn’t say I “love” a group of complete strangers based on the traits I’m assuming they all hold. Knowing who a person actually is, and loving the things that make them who they are, is what love is to me.
Is Mags here or not? She’s like Shrodinger’s MRA.
Not only are you pedestalizing men, you’ve decided to side with men who proudly display the worst traits of masculinity — sadists who want to “fuck their shit up.” Selfish philanderers of children they deem unworthy of support. They openly mock “White Knights,” but what does that make them? Even if “white knights” are naive chauvinist chivalrists, they at least have some bearing on morality.
If you want to worship and support men, you’ve picked the wrong guys to hang out with. You should have taken up hunting, or some other macho but not-ridiculous hobby.
I definitely know how I became a feminist. It wasn’t one specific event, it was lots of them over a long period of time, and I’m not going to tl;dr about it here, but yeah, there’s no mystery to it at all. Wasn’t looking for a life story, Mags, or making any accusations, just curious about how you got involved in the whole thing. From what you wrote I can see that you idealize a specific sort of masculinity, which is fine (people are allowed to like what they like), it’s just that I’m not seeing how you got from a to b. I know other people who idealize masculinity who aren’t MRAs, so it seems like there’s a piece of the picture missing.
It’s OK if you don’t want to share, though (certainly this isn’t a very friendly environment for you). Or if you just don’t know, though that does seem weird to me since I tend to always try to figure out why I feel the things that I feel, believe the things that I believe, etc.