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actual activism anti-MRA information antifeminism MGTOW misogyny MRA terrorism threats

The Southern Poverty Law Center takes on the violent misogyny so pervasive in the Men’s Rights Movement

[TW for the comments to this post; discussions of rape and abuse.]

The Southern Poverty Law Center, an organization devoted to tracking and exposing hate groups, has just published a detailed report on the misogyny and violent rhetoric so pervasive in the Men’s Rights Movement — as well as the actual violence inspired by this sort of hatred of women. It’s a piece you all should read, even though few of the details will be new to long-time readers of this blog.

Arthur Goldwag, an expert on conspiracy-mongers and the far right, argues (I think correctly) that the Men’s Rights movement is largely a backlash against the many successes of feminism over the last several decades:

It’s not much of a surprise that significant numbers of men in Western societies feel threatened by dramatic changes in their roles and that of the family in recent decades. Similar backlashes, after all, came in response to the civil rights movement, the gay rights movement, and other major societal revolutions. What is something of a shock is the verbal and physical violence of that reaction.

[Thomas] Ball’s suicide brought attention to an underworld of misogynists, woman-haters whose fury goes well beyond criticism of the family court system, domestic violence laws, and false rape accusations.

The Men’s Rights Movement, as it exists today, is not a civil rights movement; it is a regressive, hateful reaction against a civil rights movement — that is, feminism.

Those who truly care about the rights of men, and who are not motivated by a hatred of women or feminism, need to repudiate the hate and the violent rhetoric of the Men’s Rights Movement as it exists today. Only then can there be a Men’s Rights Movement worthy of the name.

EDITED TO ADD: The SPLC has also put up a guide to some of the more hateful sites in the manosphere. Longtime readers will be familiar with most of them.

EDITED TO ADD AGAIN: And a piece debunking some Men’s Rights Myths.

EDITED TO ADD AGAIN, AGAIN: The discussion of the SPLC report on the Men’s Rights Subreddit is surprisingly reasonable, so far.  (I mean, compared to what I expected. Meanwhile, over in this thread, the Men’s Rightsers are behaving as they usually do.)

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kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

@kita:

They aren’t the same organization, but they’re both pretty solidly misogynistic and anti-woman?

Crumbelievable
Crumbelievable
9 years ago

About fucking time.

Haha, the Redditors think Futrelle’s behind the whole thing, to the extent that he wrote the article on the SPLC website.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

@Crumbelievable:

Oooh, and apparently the title “Does Feminism cause brain damage” isn’t misogynistic because… wait for it… feminism =/= women. ^_^ I suppose that could be technically true, but come on… Do you really think there won’t be any misogyny in that broadcast?

Oh, and there’s this, posted a couple hours after the SPLC thread. I smell damage control. XD

red_locker
red_locker
9 years ago

So, yeah, posting this article on my Facebook to spread the word.

And yes, I WILL be making popcorn…WITH STEVIA! 😀

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

Great plate, Katz!

Lemur
Lemur
9 years ago

Echoing several previous commenters….someone HAS to get Roissy/Chateau Heartiste on that list. He’s as bad as any of them and perhaps more dangerous because he’s actually intelligent. (I hate to give any of them, least of all him, any more publicity,though.)

Quackers
Quackers
9 years ago

@Kirby

Notice how AntiFeministMedia got downvoted and hidden too.

Whatever, that post is bullshit. They’re only extending thanks to the women in the MRM…aka the women who agree with every single thing they say and overlook their misogyny. The rest of us who don’t drink the koolaid are then enemy and to be threatened, vilified and harassed and or at best, lumped in with all the other “Ameriskanks”. Pathetic that they think anyone with half a brain will fall for such tripe.

BlackBloc
BlackBloc
9 years ago

Buttman: The $PLC is far worse than any feminist organization.

The only people I know with an issue with the SPLC are butthurt neo-confederates and other assorted nazis who don’t like the fact that they actually point it out when mainstream Republicans have friends in the far right underground, unlike deferential journalists who still cling to the idea that the Republican party isn’t rotting from the inside with protofascists.

Bostonian
9 years ago

It is as if they do not realize that all of their postings are on the internet. Guys, we can see what you post. No one will be fooled by CYA stuff now.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

I’ve come to expect sexism from MRAs, but the idea that anyone hates the SPLC? What, do you hate puppies and sunshine too?

katz
9 years ago

FYI, men’s rights groups aren’t actually on the SPLC’s official list of hate groups (presumably because they don’t qualify as “groups”). The SPLC just wrote about them.

Kendra, the bionic mommy
Kendra, the bionic mommy
9 years ago

This is so awesome! The Southern Poverty Law Center did a great job on their research for this article. I’m glad to know such a large, reputable organization is keeping tabs on the MRM.

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth

The myth list is great.

Hesster
9 years ago

I’m boggling at this line:

“All he had done, he said, was smack his 4-year-old daughter and bloody her mouth after she licked his hand as he was putting her to bed.”

If you hit a four year old in the face hard enough to draw blood, you’re a child abuser. End of story. And the MRAs are trying to make this guy into a martyr?

chuckeedee
chuckeedee
9 years ago

FYI, men’s rights groups aren’t actually on the SPLC’s official list of hate groups (presumably because they don’t qualify as “groups”). The SPLC just wrote about them.

Or maybe these groups are not all motivated by hate. Either way, good call katz. I was about to dismiss SPLC as just another irrelevant, noxious manifestation of the feminist agenda, but given that they haven’t placed sites like The Spearhead, AVFM and SAVE on the hate list just yet, perhaps this would be premature.

If the SPLC wants to remain relevant, then they have to remain credible. Strong views backed up with verifiable, reliable evidence (as per the publications of TS, AVFM and SAVE) do not constitute hate. Maybe the SPLC, to their credit, has got at least this much right. Or maybe they realize that if push came to shove, then feminists themselves would have to be brought to account for the hate that characterizes their movement. After all, are not affirmative action and VAWA unconstitutional, state-sponsored sexism directed against men? No comparable state-sponsored hate is implemented against women. I say to the SPLC – bring it on, because it will bring the face of this grotesque, feminist beast into the bright light of day.

BigMomma
BigMomma
9 years ago

Hesster

that was my reaction to that line too.

all he had done? all he had done? it make me feel sick.

boomboom
boomboom
9 years ago

Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Something is right with the world. This is making my moment. Still digesting. High fives all around.

I told you, I told you this is racism. I know you know that, but…
Ok going to read links.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

I’m trying to wrap my head around the mindset that would consider “well I only smacked my toddler and made her mouth bleed because she licked me” to be the thing that you say when you’re trying to present yourself in a good light and argue that you’re not abusive. And failing.

boomboom
boomboom
9 years ago

chuckee, why do you minimize the violence and the violent threats, the publishing of private information, the SUPPORT of Thomas Ball? He would be a good soldier in the war? So what would the MRM have to do in your eyes for an intelligence report by SPLC to be justified?

You have a pretty extreme bar. It doesn’t surprise me that a person that supports the MRM blogosphere and activities would not see things clearly. I mean they constantly go on as if FEMINISTS are the ones acting like this. But where are the websites like manboobz that are taking from the femosphere? You can’t find anything like this on feminist blogs. But there’s so much on the MRM blogs/reddit that David can post an entry a day or more. And it’s horrible stuff. EVERY DAY is Sharon Osbourne day, and the MRM thinks it’s ok.

mythago
9 years ago

I know we have at least one lawyer among the regulars. At what point do vague online threats cross the line into something that’s legally actionable?

There’s no magic line for when you’re allowed to call the FBI or other law-enforcement agencies to report that somebody is making actual threats or posting a person’s address and phone number along with suggestions that they ought to be killed, raped, or similar.

If by “legally actionable” you mean, criminal charges? Generally when there is a credible threat. Posting personal information may well fall into that category. If you mean, a civil lawsuit, well, suggesting that a person is sexually immoral is classic defamation. (Which is, I believe, why Limbaugh gave a fauxpology. Calling someone a prostitute when she isn’t? Write the check, fuckstain.)

magdelyn
9 years ago

All the SPLC did was validate that women’s organizations recognize the power of the dark side…uh, I mean the men’s rights movement. Try to ignore, as David feigns to do, the MRM, but it’s growing. I think, by the wording of the articles, that this announcement came out as a result of the debates by MRA about Obama’s healthcare legislation (with its gendered components) and the VAWA, which MRA’s have been rightfully critical of.

Pecunium
9 years ago

After all, are not affirmative action and VAWA unconstitutional, state-sponsored sexism directed against men?

No. That was easy.

As to the rest of that farrago of lies… the SPLC quoted (and debunked) the various justifications the MRM sites it listed use to rationalise the hate they have for women.

The best disinfectant is sunshine.

Pecunium
9 years ago

Dave doesn’t ignore the Manosphere. You, in fact, try to mock him for not ignoring it.

What Dave does; the reason the Manosphere has such a hate on for him, in particular, is laugh at them.

That’s what pisses them off. If he took them seriously, treated them as legitimate activists (which I notice the SPLC didn’t, quite), they’d be a lot happier, because it would lend them a credibility they lack, and lift them from a circle-jerk to a movement.

FelixBC
FelixBC
9 years ago

PUAs on XKCD. Perfect!
http://xkcd.com/1027/

Xardoz
Xardoz
9 years ago

Mags, I couldn’t help noticing you’re going out of your way to find out who wrote the SPLC article.

http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/qnxyb/til_southern_poverty_law_center_thinks/c3z4zif

Trying to get some brownie points with Elam by doxxing someone free of charge? Why not hold out for the 1000bux he’ll inevitably offer for the e-lynching of another “bigot?”

And you wanted to donate to Manboobz anonymously. Coward.

cloudiah
cloudiah
9 years ago

AVfM has now responded: http://www.avoiceformen.com/a-voice-for-men/an-open-letter-to-richard-cohen-of-the-splc/

Typically florid quotes:

Those who fear truth, and brand it as hatred and bigotry, hide behind the worst kind of cowardice – the sniveling complacency that for generations allowed the rich to starve the poor, for one person to own another because of the color of their skin, and for the officers at Nuremberg to claim they were “just following orders.” For men and boys, there is no more time for complacency.

and

The alternative, I fear, is that you come down on the wrong side of history, with the likes of Dred Scott as your legacy.

That last, directed to the SPLC, is almost delicious.

Helpfully available as a .pdf download. Thanks, Paul E.!

magdelyn
9 years ago

@Xardox,

tonight, I am going to refrain from the pissing contests that I get sucked into here at MBz. I always start out nicely, and get attacked by people like you. So, hence, and therfore, I won’t comment. I will say, that the person that wrote it should take responsibility for their article if they are going to slander everybody on /r/mensrights.

Cordially,
Magz

Xardoz
Xardoz
9 years ago

Also, check out the reply from AgentMRAOrangeMRMBBQ — possible Elam sockpuppet, who released dox* on radical messageboard feminists he deemed a threat to public safety.

* I forget, did he go through with releasing actual identifying information? I wouldn’t be surprised if he didn’t, because he’s a coward as well.

cloudiah
cloudiah
9 years ago

@Ma99ie

Try to ignore, as David feigns to do, the MRM.

Er, have you read and understood the purpose of this blog?

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

How is it necessary to doxx the dude who wrote the SPLC article? He’s a published author, and his name is right at the top.

Xardoz
Xardoz
9 years ago

Why don’t you want to accept responsibility for all your “FURST!!” posts? Cya later Mags, good luck getting another person harassed by a bunch of maniacs.

magdelyn
9 years ago

No….there is the one that mentions /r/mensrights that has no author. There are three articles in the issue. Two have authors.

magdelyn
9 years ago

Good night sweet Xardoz. Parting is such sweet sorrow. Until we meet again. hugs and kisses.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

Bylines – how do they work?

cloudiah
cloudiah
9 years ago

And Fidelbogen’s comment on AVfM post is good too:

This is in regard to your postings about the men’s rights “manosphere” websites.

I am one of the bloggers listed on your “hit list”, and I am not at all pleased about being there. I consider the tenor of your material to be grossly libellous, and in need of justification.

I have personally not engaged in hate speech as the law defines it. Nothing in my writing is directed at any religious group, ethnic group, racial group or birth group whatsoever. Nor have I made threats against any individual. I have spoken harsh words about feminism, but I have a perfect right to express my opinion about ideologies I don’t agree with. Freedom of speech was guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution the last time I checked.

I consider feminism to be on a par with the KKK or any similarly odious thing. That is my highly principled conclusion, and I have reached it only after long and serious reflection. But I know quite well that if I had created a website against the KKK, I would not be on the SPLC watch list. Yes, I know a double-standard when I see one. So I consider the action of the SPLC to be unjustifiable and inexcusable. What is your excuse, then?

The SPLC does not condone the KKK, so why does it condone feminism?

Furthermore, there is no “misogyny” in my writing. Nowhere do I attack *women* (as a class or birth group) in any in any way whatsoever. So that is another case of libel. Is libel a practice of the SPLC?

Also, in regard to Arthur Goldwag’s article (issue 145). I was offended by what I saw there, because most of the information presented is simply FALSE, and in many cases slanderous — for example, a completely unfounded linkage to Mark Lepine. In other words, the SPLC is misinforming the public, and I am sure you will agree that the public is ill-served in that manner.

I would like to see you correct the information in Goldwag’s article, and I will be happy to provide the necessary consultation. I will even write an article myself, to set matters straight, since Mr. Goldwag appears uninterested in reporting things accurately.

I look forward to your serious and considered response in the near future.

Oh, and tell your friends at the FBI I said hello! 😉

~Fidelbogen~

magdelyn
9 years ago

David, it’s not that I don’t believe you, but can you tell me on this -> http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2012/spring/misogyny-the-sites page where the author is. Maybe I’m just missing it.

Shadow
Shadow
9 years ago

The best disinfectant is sunshine.

Particularly for a movement composed almost entirely of trolls :p

magdelyn
9 years ago

David, as I always say, it’s aways a good idea not to start out the conversation with veiled condescension.

mythago
9 years ago

So, hence, and therfore, I won’t comment.

Good night sweet Xardoz. Parting is such sweet sorrow. Until we meet again. hugs and kisses.

Sticking the flounce, are we?

boomboom
boomboom
9 years ago

I’ve never even heard of fidelbogen. Did SPLC get that one wrong? He clearly can’t think straight, tno. Why would a site exposing a hate group like the KKK be wrong? That’s not a double standard if SPLC doesn’t care about anti-KKK sites.

Also if he has so much evidence that feminism is a hate group like the KKK, why doesn’t he hand over that evidence to the Southern Poverty Law Center for review instead of skwaking about being listed? It’s clear that he does not believe his own crap.

OH and fidelbogen… try googling Lepine and Elam. Wait, I did it for you.
http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/feminist-governance-feminism/descent-into-madness-and-marc-lepine/

Having said all that, I wonder why SPLC included this gentleman here? I believe that their paragraphs describing sites should have at least one example of why they were chosen.

Dracula
Dracula
9 years ago

I consider feminism to be on a par with the KKK or any similarly odious thing.

You wanna talk about “…in need of justification.”?

magdelyn
9 years ago

I am indeed. As the other attorney on this board, don’t underestimate the power of the dark side.

boomboom
boomboom
9 years ago

I posted a link, is that why my comment was held up? It was to an article on Lepine by Elam showing that there is a link, against what Fidel was claiming.

Bostonian
9 years ago

Ok magdelyn, we know you hate women, especially feminists and everyone else. You have proven it beyond a shadow of a doubt. Hopefully the MRAs that you come closest to liking will now like you back.

Or maybe not, because those guys do not seem to like anyone.

cloudiah
cloudiah
9 years ago

Gad, they’re so melodramatic! Almost like “feminists” with the vapors!
Here’s Fidelbogen again:

The calm before the storm. The foreboding silence. Can you feel the electrical tension in the air, as the thunderheads pile up and up over the prairie? The sky grows ominously dark. Look yonder, a funnel cloud….!

He is totally serious.
I am beginning to see what inspired David’s mockery, which I enjoy so much.
(Insomnia again. Sucks.)

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

They’re trying to use Dred Scott to attack the SPLC? These people have no sense of irony.

magdelyn
9 years ago

Well, Bostonian, I understand that you are not my biggest fan in the world. But, as I’ve said, today, I am being all sunshine and lollipops. The last few times I’ve been on here, the conversation devolves into a clash of snark.

katz
9 years ago

There is so much fail to this flounce.