[TW for the comments to this post; discussions of rape and abuse.]
The Southern Poverty Law Center, an organization devoted to tracking and exposing hate groups, has just published a detailed report on the misogyny and violent rhetoric so pervasive in the Men’s Rights Movement — as well as the actual violence inspired by this sort of hatred of women. It’s a piece you all should read, even though few of the details will be new to long-time readers of this blog.
Arthur Goldwag, an expert on conspiracy-mongers and the far right, argues (I think correctly) that the Men’s Rights movement is largely a backlash against the many successes of feminism over the last several decades:
It’s not much of a surprise that significant numbers of men in Western societies feel threatened by dramatic changes in their roles and that of the family in recent decades. Similar backlashes, after all, came in response to the civil rights movement, the gay rights movement, and other major societal revolutions. What is something of a shock is the verbal and physical violence of that reaction.
[Thomas] Ball’s suicide brought attention to an underworld of misogynists, woman-haters whose fury goes well beyond criticism of the family court system, domestic violence laws, and false rape accusations.
The Men’s Rights Movement, as it exists today, is not a civil rights movement; it is a regressive, hateful reaction against a civil rights movement — that is, feminism.
Those who truly care about the rights of men, and who are not motivated by a hatred of women or feminism, need to repudiate the hate and the violent rhetoric of the Men’s Rights Movement as it exists today. Only then can there be a Men’s Rights Movement worthy of the name.
EDITED TO ADD: The SPLC has also put up a guide to some of the more hateful sites in the manosphere. Longtime readers will be familiar with most of them.
EDITED TO ADD AGAIN: And a piece debunking some Men’s Rights Myths.
EDITED TO ADD AGAIN, AGAIN: The discussion of the SPLC report on the Men’s Rights Subreddit is surprisingly reasonable, so far. (I mean, compared to what I expected. Meanwhile, over in this thread, the Men’s Rightsers are behaving as they usually do.)
@Roberta Sandolval
citation needed.
@Molly
I think everyone had the exact same words run through their head when they read that bit. I think Roberta finally gave us the impetus to form the manboobz hivemind!!
@Holly
I think the bigger worry, if this is true, is that homeboy considers himself lucky to find a woman who doesn’t accuse him of rape after sex. Occam’s razor does not have kind words to say about him.
@Kyrie
I think that may have been a genuine typo since W is next to E and X is next to C. It would be on par with her other “insults” though.
Why do you keep saying women? Do only women get raped? Do only women accuse? Do only women lie?
And please cite where anybody said we should put people in prison without proof.
Huh, I just realised that I started all three of those comments with “I think”. I’m not sure I’m comfortable with that much thought.
If rape is a subjective crime then the question of proof has no meaning. If someone says they were raped, they were. No amount of evidence could ever dispute their claim.
Nevermind the fact that a genuine rapist could simply argue that his victim “wanted” to sleep with him even though she was screaming and crying the whole time. Her subjective feelings are unfalsifiable, after all. Anyone’s opinion is just as valid as the next person’s.
Roberta, why do you think that emphasizing false rape accusations and keeping the narrow legal definition of rape would be helpful to anyone?
It seems to me that even if (please note that I’m not agreeing with you here) there is a widespread problem of women falsely accusing men of rape because they experience cognitive dissonance and regret over consensual sex that they had, this would not be the way to go about fixing it.
Now where, I wonder, might I find a movement looking to make sex something that women can have without degrading and devaluing themselves?
Okay, I can’t read this whole thread, just no time. Can someone tell me whether or not Roberta has ever provided one single credible citation for her claims? One?
Cloudiah: I can’t. But I keep trying.
Just in case you missed it the first two times.
I think I’ve worked out Roberta’s scenario.
Woman: Let’s have sex! I would very much like to have sex! With you! Now! Yeah!
Man: Okely-dokely!
[sex]
[next morning]
Woman: Oh no! I regret having that sex!
[police station]
Woman: Officer, this man had sex with me! I told him “let’s have sex! I would very much like to have sex!” and he had sex with me and I didn’t want it!
Officer: We shall throw him in the Pit of Doom immediately!
I’m still waiting on evidence that this has happened ever to anyone. Mostly it seems to be the scenario that gets shoved in the faces of people who, say, talk about how they were raped while crying and curled up on the floor.
“We’re throught the looking glass here people”
BTW everyone is craving a B&J Reese’s milkshake right now. Lactose intolerance? HAH! Peanut allergies? LMAO! Don’t like peanut butter in your ice cream? Piffle. Why, because I say you want it dammit, and my opinion of what you want is just as valid as what you say you want, if not more.
What if someone consciously and voluntarily decided to sleep with their partner even when they weren’t really in the mood? Is this rape in your view?
This happens quite frequently in long term relationships. I’ve certainly done this before. I’m tired and gassy and I’ve had a long day but my BF has a raging boner so I voluntarily agree to give him a handy even though I just want to get some sleep. He hasn’t threatened or coerced me in any way, but I’ve decided to do it anyway.
Is this rape in your view, holly? Because I’ve got 91 ready on my cellphone and waiting for you approval before I enter the final “1”.
@Kyrie
I thought not. Thanks for trying.
No. Not a one. It’s almost funny.
She has, however, decided to double-down on stupid and it’s kinda entertaining.
It hasn’t happened to anyone, holly. Because your hilarious standard of consent is not yet the law.
Wait for it and someone could easily argue that the scenario you describe is rape.
Oh, so now you understand subtlety.
No, that isn’t rape. In fact NO ONE FUCKING EVER said it was rape.
Stop playing the “you think it’s rape if a man wears a blue shirt, that’s ridiculous, blue shirt rape hysterics!” game. It’s a smokescreen for the way you treated a man who was crying while he was bullied into sex as a young boy.
What wires crossed in your brain that made you think “I’m not really in the mood for sex, but I want to take care of my partner’s boner” = “I don’t want to have sex right now, but I’m too scared of the consequences if I don’t”
I’m sorry, but what kind of criminal attorney cannot be found on the web? Why give a false name? Also this “hetero men have to choose between celibacy or imprisonment”
Come on, we’re being polite at this point calling you Roberta. You’re clearly a Robert. No woman on earth would think this, not even girlwritescrap.
No one made such a distinction, jerkass. They said: “If you don’t want it then it is totes rape. Even if you totally consented.”
Sorry for assuming that people mean what they say. I guess that would make me a rapist under Holly’s standard.
Celibacy, imprisonment, or Roberta! The only decent woman! The only woman on Earth capable of honesty, rational thought, and consideration for others!
(so long as they’re not women or rape victims)
Seriously, and she’s right here with us now. What are the odds, people, what are the odds.
You realise that wanting to care of your partner’s boner MEANS THAT YOU WANT THE SEX THAT IS HAPPENING IN ORDER TO PLEASE YOUR PARTNER
STOP THIS.
It’s not just dishonest, it’s disgusting. The “ooh, anything’s rape these days” game is fucking vile to shove in the faces of people who have been raped by being forced into sex.
Oh geez! Look at the time!! I better hurry and meet Beloved and remind him how silly female me who can’t possibly know her own mind or take responsibility for her own regrets hasn’t accused him of rape yet!! Gosh, I wonder if he’s been warned about that yet? I better let him know.
My family would laugh their ass off at the thought of me not knowing my own mind! Or any of the women in my family not knowing their own minds!! I’m sure some of them occassionally wish I didn’t knoiw my own mind, just so they wouldn’t have to hear my Opinions.
In all honest most men are fine so long as they avoid casual sex with strangers. I’d advise men to only have sex with women if they trust said women completely.
Because every time a man sleeps with a woman. He’s putting his life in that woman’s hands.
Holy shit holly, since when is rape being forced into sex? If that were the case then I wouldn’t be disagreeing with you.
I thought rape was any sex that you didn’t super, totally, and enthusiastically want way down deep inside now and forever. If rape is just sex that you are forced into in one way or another, then… shit, that’s actually reasonable.
Why have you said so many things to the contrary in the last few hours, then?
As someone whose sex life has consisted SOLELY of casual sex with strangers, I can tell you that that’s a load of shit