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actual activism anti-MRA information antifeminism MGTOW misogyny MRA terrorism threats

The Southern Poverty Law Center takes on the violent misogyny so pervasive in the Men’s Rights Movement

[TW for the comments to this post; discussions of rape and abuse.]

The Southern Poverty Law Center, an organization devoted to tracking and exposing hate groups, has just published a detailed report on the misogyny and violent rhetoric so pervasive in the Men’s Rights Movement — as well as the actual violence inspired by this sort of hatred of women. It’s a piece you all should read, even though few of the details will be new to long-time readers of this blog.

Arthur Goldwag, an expert on conspiracy-mongers and the far right, argues (I think correctly) that the Men’s Rights movement is largely a backlash against the many successes of feminism over the last several decades:

It’s not much of a surprise that significant numbers of men in Western societies feel threatened by dramatic changes in their roles and that of the family in recent decades. Similar backlashes, after all, came in response to the civil rights movement, the gay rights movement, and other major societal revolutions. What is something of a shock is the verbal and physical violence of that reaction.

[Thomas] Ball’s suicide brought attention to an underworld of misogynists, woman-haters whose fury goes well beyond criticism of the family court system, domestic violence laws, and false rape accusations.

The Men’s Rights Movement, as it exists today, is not a civil rights movement; it is a regressive, hateful reaction against a civil rights movement — that is, feminism.

Those who truly care about the rights of men, and who are not motivated by a hatred of women or feminism, need to repudiate the hate and the violent rhetoric of the Men’s Rights Movement as it exists today. Only then can there be a Men’s Rights Movement worthy of the name.

EDITED TO ADD: The SPLC has also put up a guide to some of the more hateful sites in the manosphere. Longtime readers will be familiar with most of them.

EDITED TO ADD AGAIN: And a piece debunking some Men’s Rights Myths.

EDITED TO ADD AGAIN, AGAIN: The discussion of the SPLC report on the Men’s Rights Subreddit is surprisingly reasonable, so far.  (I mean, compared to what I expected. Meanwhile, over in this thread, the Men’s Rightsers are behaving as they usually do.)

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Tamen
Tamen
8 years ago

Pillowinhell: “A poster named Roberta decided to play some moronic game of “what counts as rape” [with] them”. I read that as a acknowledgment that Roberta was moronic and dishonest (due to the use of the word game in this setting). Often people (at least those who have some level of empathy) you discuss with is more willing to take a step back and re-assess their stance if one reveals one’s own victimization. When TS wrote “Roberta eventually pushed Holly so much that Holly mentioned that she was a rape victim as a way of getting Roberta to stop (it did not work).” I did not read that as an disparagment of Holly. You obviously must’ve read it differently than me.

It is clear though that TS (rightly or not – I am not going to read through that monster thread) believes that he has been treated by many commenters here (including Holly according to him) in a similar way that Roberta treated LBT and Holly. That seems to be the main thrust of TS’ post. By that accord it follows that if he thinks Roberta’s behaviour were ok then your(plural) behaviour against him would also be ok. TS defending Roberta would basically shred the main premiss for that post.
Bostonian’s comment did nothing to weaken TS’ assertion that commenters here engage in the same kind of behaviour against MRA’s and him as Roberta did against LBT and Holly.

Bostonian
8 years ago

TS was lying and disingenuous in many ways on the earlier thread here. He was treated more than fairly.

I will note that you are cool with him mocking rape victims though. LBT did not engage with TS ever, either, so if TS had a grudge against Holly, he should have at least left LBT out of it.

Crumbelievable
Crumbelievable
8 years ago

<So we’ve got a curious situation where people are being accused of conspiring to lie and attack women by the SPLC for using an approximation of this supposedly mainstream feminist way of defining rape rather than a more questionable and narrower definition.

That’s really only a small part of the reason you guys are being accused of being misogynistic asshats. There’s also the fact that MRAs and MRM leaders are fond of using incredibly threatening language and sometimes outright endorsing violence against feminists (in the case of the nuttier ones, against all of womenkind) in a pathetic attempt to make people do what theyn want. There’s the Register-her.com website, a disturbingly stalker-ish campaign, the sole aim of which is reportedly to “cause as much pain and suffering as legally possible” to a bunch of women MRAs don’t like. MRM websites are also cesspools of rape apologia, not simply bringing attention to false allegations but publishing sickening editorials about rape victims and actively encouraging MRAs on jury duty to acquit even the guiltiest of accused rapists.

Misogyny is rampant in the Manosphere, whether it be some dudes on Reddit calling a woman a “cunt” or the head producer of Paul Elam’s radio show comparing women to overgrown children.

Crumbelievable
Crumbelievable
8 years ago

I messed up that blockquote. Oops. The first paragraph is quoting Tamen.

Tamen
Tamen
8 years ago

Pillowinhell: “In a society that says men cannot be hurt or raped by women, how many boys and men are going to be able to identify what happened to them, let alone report it?”

Now that is an poignant question. Another important question is “In a society that says men cannot be hurt or raped by women, how many women are going to be able to correctly identify their actions, let alone refrain from doing them in the first place?”

The solution is to talk more about how men can be hurt and raped by women. Then more boys and men can identify what happens to them and more importantly, more women who are about to hurt and rape boys and men can recognize what they are about to do for what it is and chose differently. Keeping up the mantra “women are the overwhelming majority of rape victims and men are the overwhelmingly majority of rapists” which so many (including the CDC in their choice of classification and in their preface and press-kits for their report) are in fact harmful.

katz: So you (just who do you mean by we? I am assuming you’re not using the majestic plural) found it unlikely that a boy would know that his abuser identified as a feminist? A rapist who also was his aunt – so it’s not like it was some stranger. Unlikely enough that you see it fit to re-iterate in a public space the accusation against one particular victim that he lied about how his abuser who also is a family member identified herself?

pillowinhell
8 years ago

Tamen, I havbe yet to see a thread here where one of our regular posters creates a graphic rape fantasy and explicitly directs it at another person. We recently had someone vent in an innapproprite way, and that person was called out and warned not to engage in that behaviour. And it was noithing on par with Roberta’s meltdown.

Either you don’t believe rape victims should be treated that way or you do, provided they are feminists. TS seems to lead to the latter choice. You seem to be fence sitting. Now, you’ve told us plenty in defense of TS. What do you plan to say to him about his treatment of rape victims he has mocked?

katz
8 years ago

Tamen’s a little weak on the concept of listing possibilities, I see.

Holly Pervocracy
8 years ago

I totally agree that we need more awareness of the rape of men and rape by women.

I disagree that harassing rape survivors online and directing detailed rape fantasies against them (or endorsing this behavior) is an effective way to accomplish these things.

Tamen
Tamen
8 years ago

Crumbelievable: You not only messed up the blockquote, you also messed up the attribution. I did not write the paragraph you attributed to me. Makomk did. I am not Makomk.
And then you did go on and conflated me (using “you guys”) with MRAs and MRM leaders whom I neither identifies with nor answer to.

If you want to accuse me of being a misogynist asshat I’d rather you point to something I actually wrote and I’ll either refute/disagree with your assessment of MY words or own it if you are correct.

Holly Pervocracy
8 years ago

…In fact, Tamen, Roberta was telling a MAN who had been raped that he wasn’t really raped. And Toysoldier was just pleased as punch with her.

These people are NOT helping male survivors with SHIT.

pillowinhell
8 years ago

Well Holly, now you know that men who identify as feminists aren’t really men/ end snark.

That’s the way it seems to me. Many MRAs will only support male survivors of anything provided they aren’t feminists or feminist allies.

Holly Pervocracy
8 years ago

Roberta’s sick little rape fantasy was about a man, too.

Is this the kind of thing Tamen and TS want to defend on behalf of men?

pillowinhell
8 years ago

Tamen, in order to show how men can be hurt or raped, we have to break down the barrier of what is seen as rape. And for Roberta and many others, rape is only rape if it involves extreme violence. Roberta didn’t like the fact that rape as defined on Manboobz and other feminist spaces doesn’t need extreme violence. That there are plenty of ways to force someone into assenting to sex which they really can’t or don’t wish to consent to.

So just out of curiositys sake, what’s your opinion of the feminist idea of consent. I’ll leave out the enthusiastic part, since it is problematic for certain groups of people or certain situations.

Crumbelievable
Crumbelievable
8 years ago

My apologies.

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
8 years ago

Omg are we talking about Toysoldier’s aunt again? I go away for months (kind of) and come back to this? 😀

Bostonian
8 years ago

Well, we are more talking about TS and his desire to mock rape victims and then pretend he is some kind of advocate for them.

pillowinhell
8 years ago

Holly, I hope you DIDN’T come across that sick little tale.

katz
8 years ago

I missed it and I seem to have been very, very lucky.

pillowinhell
8 years ago

Also, I don’t think that feminists are entirely unwilling to look at women perpetrators of rape. The fact is that we are so busy even trying to define rape, to get it recognized and properly prosecuted. Society won’t accept rape as it applies to “the weaker” sex, how the hell are we supposed to fight for recognition for men too? The CDC is non partisan.

Now, has anyone thought to write the CDC with their concerns about how male victimology was presented? I haven’t read the discussion on their findings, so I’m not sure why they presented envelopment seperately.

Holly Pervocracy
8 years ago

I did. 🙁

I thought about telling my boyfriend but I decided it really wasn’t something he needed to hear. I’m glad it got deleted before he read this post.

pillowinhell
8 years ago

I’m sorry to hear that Holly. Many here were hoping David could make it disappear before you came across it. Same with LBT

Holly Pervocracy
8 years ago

It’s okay, I might as well have seen it. I’m not really sensitive about this stuff (well, obviously I’m sensitive, but I mean it doesn’t cause pain) or I wouldn’t be as open as I am here.

Tamen
Tamen
8 years ago

Holly: “I disagree that harassing rape survivors online and directing detailed rape fantasies against them (or endorsing this behavior) is an effective way to accomplish these things.”

I that wasn’t pretty clear from before. I am not endorsing Roberta’s behaviour and I believe I expressed that when I said earlier that I thought deleting/banning her comments were an appropriate response. What you describe is reprehensible. I did not read TS post as an endorsment of Roberta’s behaviour. If my reading is mistaken and TS is in fact endorsing such behaviour then it follows from my first statement that I would be in disagreement with TS on this point.

Bostonian: I thought it was Roberta who did not leave LBT out of it.

katz: Exactly which listing of possibilities am I having trouble with? If we are talking about the list of possible ways Bostonian’s comment can be interpreted which MAKOMK listed (to which you responded) I don’t really think there is a list of possible interpretations.
“He could have been abused, but I doubt his abuser actually specifically identified as a feminist.” is not very ambiguous.

Pillowinhell: Asking that question is getting close to doing one of the things that triggers me the most. Assuming that my arguing for male victims of rape and female perpetrators is a rape-apologistic ploy to revert to older and narrower definition of rape for all (including women) is one of the things that pisses me off to no end. I am going to assume no bad faith of from you and answer your question.

I am a male survivor of a rape by a female which wasn’t violent. Women close to me have been raped in a non-violent way by men. To put it shortly “no means no” should in my view be a legal standard while “yes means yes” should be a personal standard all people should strive for. I think a “no – come-on – no – come-on – no – come-on…no – come-on …ok then” is at the very least very troublesome and that it can amount to rape. As I mentioned in an earlier comments I argued against a feminist on NSWATM whether the “seduction” scene in Almost Famous could’ve been rape. Given that there at no point were a clear reversal of his repeatedly expressed “no”s I thought that it very much could be rape. As to how I stand on the feminist idea of consent I’d have to ask you to define that closer as I can’t see there is one feminist idea of consent. I for instance had issues with Feministe’s two posts on men who won’t do cunnilingus and who won’t participate in sex when their partner is menstruating because I think someone saying “If you won’t do this sex act, then you’re a misogynist” can very easily be coercive.

In short, I do not find the definitions for instance CDC uses for rape AND “being made to penetrate someone else” in the NISVS 2010 report as too wide. I firmly do believe that the requirement to obtain consent should be applied equally to everyone regardless of gender or orientation. The importance of obtaining women’s consent has been talked about a lot compared with how much the importance of obtaining consent from men have been talked about in our society. A balance would be mutually helpful in my opinion.

Tamen
Tamen
8 years ago

Pillowinhell: “Also, I don’t think that feminists are entirely unwilling to look at women perpetrators of rape.”

Some aren’t and some are. Feminist Soraya Chemaly (with Huffington Post as a platform) submitted an article on rape culture to TGMP which among other things stated: “There is a qualitative difference between saying men rape women and women rape men and that difference gets eliminated when you tell individual stories without context.”
“Raising the specter of women raping boys implies a false equivalence and doesn’t help us understand and change a culture where rape—the power, the crime, the threat, and the jokes—is acceptable.”
“Only men can stop rape.”

Feminist admitting that if the genders in a situation were reversed they wouldn’t call it rape.

Other feminists do get it – Ozymandias42 handling of the thread where another feminist asked for visual enactments of women raping men because she just couldn’t imagine it happening was an example of a feminist getting it.

So for me feminist self-identification is not alone a reliable indicator whether they get it. First when someone states their stance can I evaluate to what extent I think they are willing to consider women perpetrators of rape as something more than a theoretical possibility, an anomaly, or perhaps even more insiduous, something they have to acknowledge out of political correctness, but which they really don’t believe in.

Holly Pervocracy
8 years ago

Tamen, I don’t disagree with anything in the above comment.

Except that TS is clearly gloating in Roberta’s trolling (because two male-rape erasures make a right???) and trying to shame me for talking about my rape, and I don’t think you need to be defending him.

Tamen
Tamen
8 years ago

My 9:19pm comment which starts being adressed to adressed to Holly has the sentence:
“I that wasn’t pretty clear from before.”

That contains a typo, it should be:
“If that wasn’t pretty clear from before;”

The first one doesn’t make sense, but can be misconstrued so I thought I’d correct it.

pillowinhell
8 years ago

My apologies Tamen, for asking in such an insensitive way, on a thread that hasn’t exactly been welcoming. I apologize for any harm or distress I may have brought you.

I read the feministe article on cunnigulus and sex during menstration. And I was disgusted with it for the very reasons you mentioned. I don’t often read their stuff over there, but that one I did. And it doesn’t seem to have crossed many minds as to where that thinking leads. I can sympathize with women who’ve been expected to perform blowjobs for men, even when its not something they enjoy but the men won’t reciprocate in like and kind. Personally, if my partner were to insist on acts I don’t like to perform and tried pressuring me into it I’d walk. When I was younger I tried to please in this way, its not worth it. And I sure as hell don’t want to pressure my partners into doing things they don’t want to do.
I suppose you’re right that there are several lines of thought on what makes for consent. Still, you’re thinking on the concept of consent is similar to feminist thought, and balanced. I haven’t seen the movie you’re talking about, but on occassions where I watch movies, I have seen women “seduce” in ways that definately promote the idea that men do not need to consent. Battlestar Galactica comes to mind.

darksidecat
8 years ago

The NCVS report again? I’ve gone over these numbers and why mras are being dumbasses about them umpteenth fucking times. Get some new lines, I’m getting tired over here. Maybe I should just archive my response posts and copy paste.

darksidecat
8 years ago

I read the feministe article on cunnigulus and sex during menstration. And I was disgusted with it for the very reasons you mentioned.

Really? You agree with this sentiment as an accurate one and as an accurate reading of the Feministe posts?:

I for instance had issues with Feministe’s two posts on men who won’t do cunnilingus and who won’t participate in sex when their partner is menstruating because I think someone saying “If you won’t do this sex act, then you’re a misogynist” can very easily be coercive.

Because, while there were problematic assumptions in the article (plenty of men who won’t engage in sex during menstruation won’t for heavily misogynist reasons, there is a problem, however, in saying that to all of them), saying that it is a relationship deal breaker for you if your partner won’t have certain kinds of sex is not the equivalent of saying it would be okay to coerce an unwilling partner into those kinds of sex.

Here’s what the actual article said:

<blockquote:His reasoning was “it’s gross.” And when I stopped seeing him approximately 24 hours after that conversation, my reasoning was, “I don’t want to be with someone who thinks that a natural, healthy uterus-having body is gross.” Do you have a right to refuse to have period sex because you think bleeding vaginas be nasty? Of course. And do I have a right to leave your ass and think less of you because of that? You betcha. Because it does come down to misogyny, basically — most pre-menopausal people with uteruses and vaginas who are old enough to consent to sex bleed once a month.

While you’re obligated not to pressure him, I think you are entitled to be like, “Well, we appear to be done here.” And I think you’re entitled to tell him that his vagina-phobia is why.

The author of both pieces makes it explicitly clear that it’s not okay to pressure people into it, but it is okay as a dealbreaker.

pillowinhell
8 years ago

Well Tamen, I have to admit I still suffer a bias towards thinking of rape as female victim, male perp…although I hope to put such thinking in the dust bin where it belongs.

Some feminists seem to look at rape through a historical lens. But with the stats that come out now about when men in our society are most likely to suffer rape (boys early in puberty from what I gather) and the age old thinking that a guy is always up for sex, well, I have to wonder if more men were raped than is thought. On the other hand, marital rape was outright promoted. One painting in particular comes to mind..”The rape of(I can’t remember her name” and was frequently given as a wedding gift to remind the bride about how one of the worst things in life could happen to her but if she worked hard she could make a happy life.

I think what is definitly needed is to stop rape, regardless of gender. Even one person raped is too many and there is no moral excuse for condoning or dismissing it on any grounds.

Tamen
Tamen
8 years ago

Holly: I tried not to talk about that article of TS. I originally was talking about Bostonian’s comment here. I did not intend to defend the post by TS here. Bostonian and other commenters asked me why I wasn’t commenting on TS’s post – I should’ve refrained from explaining why.

felixBC
felixBC
8 years ago

@pillowinhell Rape of Lucretia, or Rape of the Sabine Women, both popular themes for wedding chests in the Renaissance. “Heroic Rape”, oh yay.
http://www.oneonta.edu/faculty/farberas/arth/arth200/Body/Heroic_Rape.html

pillowinhell
8 years ago

DSC, its my stupid ass that wonders why the numbers for envelopment was placed seperatly, and if you’re tired of flogging that horse its fine, you don’t need to explain further.

Also, yes I did have a problem with it, because I could imagine the worst case scenario conversation with a guy based on this. Refusing cunnigulus in and of itself does not a misogynist make. I think there should be other behaviours or signs along with that before you make that decision. Also, I do not masterbate when menstruating, does this mean that I’m a misogynist? Or maybe it just means that I don’t like the feeling of blood drying on my skin or the clean up afterwards? Does the fact that I don’t like giving blow jobs or getting facials mean that I don’t like men?
Certainly, people are free to find more suitable relationships to meet their needs. Its how its handled, because handled wrong it can become a pressure tactic.
“I’m sorry honey, this relationship is going great except you won’t go down on me, so maybe it would be better if we just broke up”. Now, if it was a committed relationship, and the guy is in love, do you think there would be no pressure to perform? If its stated up front at the begining of the relationship that that’s something you’re looking for and would consider a dealbreaker its different. It has to be handled with care.

So yes, I understood what the article was about, but I can also see how that article can be misconstrued, especially by people like me who still have that nasty little bias kicking around that says men can’t be rape victims.

For the record, I’ve had a few different tactivcs used to persuad me to give blowjobs. One of them being that if I didn’t, I musnt like men, with a side of “are you sure you aren’t lesbian?”

Jen
Jen
8 years ago

At the risk of being flamed out of this discussion, why is there so much discussion about what a suspected troll said?

I agree with the poster who said that the Register Her site is creepy, stalkerish, and bizarre.

I think (hope) that this was just a warning shot and that SPLC will continue to expose what the MRA’s do. If you don’t know what they have been able to do to victims in the family courts, then the SPLC action won’t make as much sense to you.

There is a new study about to be released from the DOJ and the University of Michigan that confirms the growing body of research on how it is that abusers often have the upper hand in family courts. MRA’s have had a big part to play in that. Abusers don’t care about the children caught up in all this, and the MRA’s certainly don’t.

What needs to happen is that the true father’s rights moderates, who aren’t misogynists and seriously want to see a better system in place need to break away from the MRA’s and join with protective mothers to fight for court reform. More educated and accountable judges, and court personnel are going to make better decisions…they are going to take the time to separate the small number of false allegations from real cases of abuse. Then everyone wins.

pillowinhell
8 years ago

Thanks Felix! The name totally escaped me.

felixBC
felixBC
8 years ago

Only click that link if you’re ready to see rape glorified and glamourized. I can’t believe I was raised with this stuff as being normal…my grandfather used an image of a Sabine woman being abducted by a Roman as a bedside water glass coaster. My mother painted it.

pillowinhell
8 years ago

Yes and its been kicking around for a long time. People love that painting without knowing that its a morality tale to accept rape. I think there are stylized versions of it, so it could be carved or embroidered by the average person, and to look at them you wouldn’t realize that its representitive of that tale.

pillowinhell
8 years ago

Oh wait.. I’m thinking of Zeus’. Obsession with Leda, who became a swan.

Plenty of fairy tales centered on that theme too. Cinderella’s slipper comes to mind.

Tamen
Tamen
8 years ago

Darksidecat: I don’t think anyone here has talked about the NCVS report, but rather the NISVS 2010 Report.

As for what I find problematic about the Feministe posts I can say that you touch upon it when you say that all men are not misogynists for not wanting cunnilingus or period sex. There is always a chance of the dumping turning into a negotiation (initiated by any of the parts), especially if any of the parts have invested emotionally in the relationship, and then a (perhaps even misplaced) value judgement of misogyni might then make the following negotiation more coercive as being in the form of an ultimatum or a perception of such. Judging and expressing that judgement of people on their sexual preferences or dislikes is not the same as breaking up with an incompatibel partner.

Pillowinhell: Both male and female victims have in common that the most common perpetrator is an intimate partner so marital rape is not exclusively “wife rape” as some call marital rape.

felixBC
felixBC
8 years ago

Yeah the rape of the swan. Didn’t Sleeping Beauty have several children in some versions of the tale, before waking up? Sometimes I think the fairytales embed rape fantasies in our psyches…

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
8 years ago

I was taught that if a woman in a painting like that has her hands thrown up in the air, that was a visual hint that she gets raped. Yay art. :p

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
8 years ago

And boys are taught that they should kiss any lady they find — even dead ones.

Boys. Don’t do that. It is super unsanitary. And even if she’s not actually dead that doesn’t make it better.

pillowinhell
8 years ago

Tamen, tru enough that marital rape can happen to any gender. But how many stories, paintings or poems were aimed explicitly towards men to accept being raped by their lover or partner? The only one coming to mind at the moment is the story of Hermaphroditus? I think? Anyways the greek tale of a young boy who was changed into a mix of male and female when he refused a nymphs advances.

felixBC
felixBC
8 years ago

And that castle with the thorns around it. Defenses are totally for storming, with a really big sword.
Lots of young boys get seduced in those stories/paintings. Ganymede, for one. Also abducted by Zeus, to be a cup bearer, among other roles. (Latin form of name is Catamitus…hence catamite.)

This message was brought to you by Sunday evening with Google.

Pecunium
8 years ago

So Tamen: Why are you so up in arms about what you think to be unfair treatment of TS, while not being, in any visible way, up in arms about his similar (IMO, worse) treatment of LBT and Holly?

pillowinhell
8 years ago

Felix I may have to read those old stories again, starting with Ovids metamorphises again.

felixBC
felixBC
8 years ago

“At the risk of being flamed out of this discussion, why is there so much discussion about what a suspected troll said?”

Because one site’s troll is another site’s favoured writer/commenter. And this blog is about what those people say.

Tamen
Tamen
8 years ago

pillowinhell: Yes, those stories you list and more do exist. Yes, I think they have been and have the potential to be harmful to anyone in a relationship with someone who takes any stock in them. I am hoping less and less people let their ethics and moral be influenced by stories like those. Both men and women report a high level of sex with their intimate partner which they did not consent freely to. A rate I hope can be reduced for both men aand women.

Pecunium: Are yours or anyone else’s conclusion about Bostonian’s comment contigent upon what I write about TS rather than upon the content of Bostonian’s comment itself? Please say so straight up if that’s the case.

makomk
makomk
8 years ago

Pillowhell: “I haven’t read the discussion on their findings, so I’m not sure why they presented envelopment seperately.”

The discussion section in their report has this to say about their statistics on rape by envelopment:

“As an example of prevalence differences between the National Intimate Partner and Sexual
Violence Survey and other surveys, the lifetime prevalence estimate of rape for men in this report is lower than what has been reported in other surveys (e.g., for forced sex more broadly) (Basile, Chen, Black, & Saltzman, 2007). This could be due in part to the National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey making a distinction between
rape and being made to penetrate someone else. Being made to penetrate is a form of sexual victimization distinct from rape that is particularly unique to males and, to our knowledge, has not been explicitly measured in previous national studies. It is possible that rape questions in prior studies captured the experience of being made to penetrate someone else, resulting in higher prevalence estimates for male rape in those studies.”

So basically they believe that previous surveys have overstated the number of male rape victims by counting rape through envelopment as rape. I suspect that, given the prestige of the CDC, there will be pressure on future surveys to take this into account when defining rape. It also seems fairly likely that, were it not for the need to deal with these other surveys that did count envelopment as rape, the CDC wouldn’t have bothered trying to count it at all just like their previous surveys.

LBT
LBT
8 years ago

I apparently missed Roberta’s fantasy about me. (Though someone earlier above said my attacker was female. No, sorry, he was a guy.) Dare I ask what it involved?

Also, who the hell is toysoldier? I swear, I leave a thread for a couple days, and suddenly it goes kaboom all over again! I have no idea who that guy is, but I still feel extremely uncomfortable with the idea that he’s lying about his own abuse.