[TW for the comments to this post; discussions of rape and abuse.]
The Southern Poverty Law Center, an organization devoted to tracking and exposing hate groups, has just published a detailed report on the misogyny and violent rhetoric so pervasive in the Men’s Rights Movement — as well as the actual violence inspired by this sort of hatred of women. It’s a piece you all should read, even though few of the details will be new to long-time readers of this blog.
Arthur Goldwag, an expert on conspiracy-mongers and the far right, argues (I think correctly) that the Men’s Rights movement is largely a backlash against the many successes of feminism over the last several decades:
It’s not much of a surprise that significant numbers of men in Western societies feel threatened by dramatic changes in their roles and that of the family in recent decades. Similar backlashes, after all, came in response to the civil rights movement, the gay rights movement, and other major societal revolutions. What is something of a shock is the verbal and physical violence of that reaction.
[Thomas] Ball’s suicide brought attention to an underworld of misogynists, woman-haters whose fury goes well beyond criticism of the family court system, domestic violence laws, and false rape accusations.
The Men’s Rights Movement, as it exists today, is not a civil rights movement; it is a regressive, hateful reaction against a civil rights movement — that is, feminism.
Those who truly care about the rights of men, and who are not motivated by a hatred of women or feminism, need to repudiate the hate and the violent rhetoric of the Men’s Rights Movement as it exists today. Only then can there be a Men’s Rights Movement worthy of the name.
EDITED TO ADD: The SPLC has also put up a guide to some of the more hateful sites in the manosphere. Longtime readers will be familiar with most of them.
EDITED TO ADD AGAIN: And a piece debunking some Men’s Rights Myths.
EDITED TO ADD AGAIN, AGAIN: The discussion of the SPLC report on the Men’s Rights Subreddit is surprisingly reasonable, so far. (I mean, compared to what I expected. Meanwhile, over in this thread, the Men’s Rightsers are behaving as they usually do.)
@LBT
I fully endorse that. I can’t stop laughing imagining people’s reaction to being called “the Neville Longbottom of X”
LBT: I think we are seeing “let” in a different context. I was pressured into sex. I chose, later, to not let that sort of pressure be a thing I caved in to. I assented. That was an action I took. It doesn’t absolve her from the coercive aspects, but so long as I was willing to contend against her desire, no sex was happening.
There isn’t a good word in english to cover the change in will I underwent. Permitted is worse than let. Allow, perhaps, because it’s a bit more active, but the bottom line is that I learned where my autonomous limits needed to be. I wasn’t old (or perhaps experienced) enough yet to know what they were.
It wasn’t quite, “if you loved me you would”, but it was related.
RE: Shadow
I myself would be AMPED to be referred to as a Neville Longbottom. Of ANYTHING. I could be the Neville Longbottom of orifuckingami and I would’ve been psyched.
Antifeminism is now an act of terrorism against the ol’ stars and stripes. I guess when the rest of the world stops taking the word “misogynist” seriously, feminists have to step it up a notch.
Considering that half of the citizens of the ol’ starry-stripey country are women… yeah.
The rest of the world did what now?
Anyway, I’ll never get why you guys are offended by being called “misogynist.” It’s not just an insult, it doesn’t mean “poopiepants badhead”; it means “person who hates women.” You hate women. So, you know, it’s just a description.
LBT, naw don’t sweat it!!! Found a great job that gives me flexibility and I don’t have to pay for a sitter! My life is loads easier now, and its all good.
@holly
I don’t hate women. I just don’t hate men. So they call me a misogynist. That’s what the call everyone who doesn’t hate men.
Just make male heterosexuality illegal if it offends you so much. That’s what they get for loving women. The fools…
@holly
I don’t hate women. I just don’t hate men. So they call me a misogynist. That’s what the call everyone who doesn’t hate men.
Just make male heterosexuality illegal if it offends you so much. That’s what they get for loving women. The fools…
Non-sequitor.
Not least because it’s patently false. Holly isn’t offended by male heterosexuality.
She’s offended by rapists, and rape apologists, and misogynists. The first you encourage, because the second you practice. The jury is still out on the third, but a reasonable person would be excused if they thought you were; based on the first and second (see also, your ignoring of the violence in the movement you are praising/working beside).
Call it a preponderance of the evidence.
But if literally all hetero sex is rape, why bother trying to draw a distinction?
At the very least they believe that rape should be a subjective crime. Where it’s rape if you say so and it’s not if you don’t. That’s little better.
I never said you hated women. Although considering how you were just “but TECHNICALLY”ing a male rape victim, I don’t think you should be too damn proud of your “doesn’t hate man” credentials. Maybe you don’t hate them but you sure as hell aren’t too nice.
I understand, though; you thought he was a woman. The fact that you turned out to be attacking a man was collateral damage! It’s unfortunate but bound to happen when you’re performing your duty of keeping those darn rape victims in line.
Complete non sequitor and in incredibly bad faith. How the fuck am I offended by male heterosexuality?
I’m offended by rape, but if you think that’s the same thing as male heterosexuality… once again, you’re the goddamn misandrist here.
A rather facetious understanding of it, but in essence correct. Only I can decide if I want a sexual encounter or not. If I didn’t want the encounter, then I have been raped. And I’m a het male. I don’t see why this is not also true of women, genderqueers etc.
Yes Roberta, I’m sooo offended by male sexuality that I’ll be enticing Beloved into yet another display of it tonight,,,
Please stop building straw feminists or else spend a little more time doing the reading.
You’re the one arguing that most male heterosexuality is rape. If rape is in the eye of the beholder, as you seem to believe, then every man who ever sleeps with a woman is putting his life in that woman’s hands.
If I were male, I certainly would never sleep with a woman. It’s just too dangerous. No orgasm is worth your life. If I were a straight male, I’d just be celibate. It’s the only reasonable option left for hetero men in the 21st century.
NOBODY SAID THAT. Seriously nobody.
However, sex (hetero or not) without consent is rape.
Why is it so fucking complicated to understand something like SOMETIMES SEX IS RAPE AND SOMETIMES IT IS NOT? Why do you have to insist that anyone who claims rape exists thinks all sex is rape?
I know, how unfair! There ought to be some way to have sex with someone who doesn’t want it!
How is this complicated? Someone who takes my money is a thief if I say so and not if I don’t. This is how society works. Consent matters in a lot of things.
And seriously, what exactly are you planning to do to a person, that you want or need this “they didn’t want sex with me but I’m allowed to” contingency to exist? Why is that so fucking important to you?
I think you must be stuck on the part where a woman gets to say no.
Consent is not hard to understand, and its not hard to get so long as you understand you might not get it right then and there or that you may need to look for another potential partner.
And those are the two major hangups for people who don’t like the idea of consent.
pretty sure your sneering, pseudo-intellectual contempt for women would take care of this problem for you, just fyi.
So you can buy a product and then accuse the seller or theft after the fact? And legitimately so?
Good to know. I’m off to buy a Jaguar and then I’ll accuse the dealer of theft. Because, after all, it’s theft if I say so. And I say so, so it’s theft.
The logic is flawless. Anyone who disagrees probably supports rape.
That really makes no sense. I don’t know who misinformed but I assure you that male heterosexuality does not need women to not want the sex that they are having. Really it isn’t. And you seem to be under the impression that, even if your ridiculous “eye of the beholder” argument was true, there’s no reason that this standard does not apply to women and non-binary folks as well.
I… see. You’ll forgive me if I continue to be happily unreasonable I hope
No, every man who sleeps with a woman who doesn’t want to sleep with him is subjecting himself to the consequences of that action. Sleeping with women who want to sleep with you? Still legal in 50 states!
Good, since your idea of sexual negotiation seems to be less “what do we want to do together?” and more “what can I get away with?”
“Hey baby, let’s do something you won’t technically be able to secure a conviction for.”
Sexy.
Oh, what a bunch of shit. More dishonesty coming from Roberta, I am shocked.
And this:
Cue up the violins for the imaginary scenarios in your head.
Damn, those straw feminists are getting meaner and meaner.
Would you like to discuss the issue of the morality of Feminism & Co giving free lollipops for every male foetus aborted? I’m sure you have strong feeling on that.
*wait for quote from dead feminist to prove we all hate men.
Its telling that she always goes back to comparing women to inanimate objects isn’t it?
Also, why hetero sex? And why male hetero sex? You were the one saying to a man that his rape (by another man, if I’m not mistaken) isn’t real but we’re the men-haters?
I’m calling class of grad students on Roberta.
Unless they regret their decision and decide to relieve their cognitive dissonance by accusing you of rape. Something which is becoming more and more common.
If rape is a subjective crime, then anyone accused is automatically guilty. If you have sex with a woman and she regrets that fact at any point in her life, even years after the fact, your life is over. It’s just not worth the existential hazard.
Het men who sleep with women are playing games with their life. Just wait for sex robots. It’s only a matter of time.