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hypocrisy misogyny

Michael Moore upbraids Rush Limbaugh for his misogyny by calling him a “prostitute” and a “bitch.” Uh, Mike …

Oh, Michael Moore. You still don’t get it, do you?

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magdelyns
9 years ago

First!

Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

Neener neener, you’re a woman!

…Oh yeah? Well, you’re a woman who has sex! Take that!

jumbofish
9 years ago

Some people just don’t even comprehend their own stupidity…..

ozymandias42
ozymandias42
9 years ago

Holly: Yeah, well, you’re a woman who GETS PAID FOR SEX! HA!

johnnykaje
9 years ago

*facepalm*

Dracula
Dracula
9 years ago

Ah, Micheal Moore. You know you’re no better than Rush is, right? Seriously, you’re really not helping the cause here.

zhinxy
9 years ago

Seriously, fuck Michael Moore.

magdelyns
9 years ago

Being called a prostitute is a compliment, in my opinion.

Dracula
Dracula
9 years ago

That’s great, Mags. I’m sure Limbaugh and Moore are totally on board with you on this. Or, y’know, NOT.

Lady Zombie
Lady Zombie
9 years ago

I’m sure sex worker rights advocates are thrilled to pieces with this. /sarcasm

Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

Ozy: Oh yeah? Oh yeah?

Well, you’re a woman who has sex submissively! Maybe even gets paid for it!

Take THAT!

Comrade Svilova
9 years ago

Ugh, why hasn’t he learned yet?

Dani Alexis
Dani Alexis
9 years ago

With feminist allies like this, who needs MRAs?

Anon
Anon
9 years ago

I am sure that this misguided liberal oaf had the best of intentions. Or at least thought he did.

Kyrie
Kyrie
9 years ago

@magdelyns: I don’t think being gay, trans, queer or whatever is bad. That means it’s ok if I or others use them as insults?

Kyrie
Kyrie
9 years ago

Or more to the point: I’m a woman, happily so and I know plenty who are. Should it be ok to insult men with “you’re a woman”-type insults? (as in ‘bitch’)

2-D Man
2-D Man
9 years ago

Does someone have a crowbar? I need to remove my palm from my face.

grinner
grinner
9 years ago

Holly:

O Yeah? Well, uhh, you’re a Man who, uhh, has sex for money?! Dunno, kinda can’t top yours

Btw before re-lurking <3 Holly and <3 Ozy, y'all are awesome peoples!

darksidecat
9 years ago

This isn’t Michael Moore’s first sexism related debacle. I’m so over him by this point it isn’t even funny. Fucking sexist ass.

KathleenB
KathleenB
9 years ago

Head, desk. Lather, rinse, repeat…

plotlemmingvictim
plotlemmingvictim
9 years ago

I suppose it is for the best that I didn’t expect anything useful from Moore about this anyway.

ozymandias42
ozymandias42
9 years ago

Holly: Yeah, well, I will have sex with you* where you are submissive! And a woman! DON’T YOU FEEL SO HUMILIATED?

*with your consent

filetofswedishfish
9 years ago

“Caved”. This word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Noadi
9 years ago

Sometimes I think the brief moments of brilliance Moore has isn’t worth the rest of the time when he’s a clueless ass.

Kyrie
Kyrie
9 years ago

BTW, I agree with Dani Alexis. Fighting enemies is one thing, being up against people who believe they’re being good allies is so much worse: when that can pass for anti-sexism (I don’t how if the guy identify as a feminist) it set the bar a little lower for honest-to-god-real-certified-racism.

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

Oh, Jesus. Thirding the “with allies like this” sentiment.

captainbathrobe
9 years ago

Chapter 863 billion in the saga of “Intent, it’s not fucking magic.”

captainbathrobe
9 years ago

And, if he stops in tonight, we will witness the mind-bending phenomenon of NWO slave defending Michael Moore against the evil feminists. You heard it here first.

QuantumSparkle
QuantumSparkle
9 years ago

So, Moore decided to insult Rush Limbaugh for using sexist slurs by… using more sexist slurs.

Wow, Moore’s a *genius*! I’m just *SOOOO* glad he’s on our side!!! Sort of! Yay!
sarcasms
I cannot eyeroll-sigh hard enough.

Hippodameia
Hippodameia
9 years ago

To paraphrase something a critic once said about Sylvester Stallone, we have seen the limits of Michael Moore’s social justice commitment and the vast horizons of his privilege.

Astazha
Astazha
9 years ago

Or more to the point: I’m a woman, happily so and I know plenty who are. Should it be ok to insult men with “you’re a woman”-type insults? (as in ‘bitch’)

I was struggling with this question myself. Bitch is obviously an offensive usage, and that’s where some of it’s impact comes from. Part of male identity is being not-feminine, and it’s common for men to attack each other’s masculinity like this. Nancy, pansy, pussy, bitch, etc. There’s a current of misogyny to it, but the notion of entirely abandoning this creates a lot of confusion in my mind. I’m not going to expand that because I think it will be incoherent.

I think saying that something “sucks” or “blows” has the same origin. I haven’t looked up the etymology, but I imagine these are contractions of “sucks dick”, and are derogatory because they imply femininity or homosexuality. That said, if someone told me to stop saying “sucks” because it had misogynistic origins, that would sound oversensitive to me. For me personally the goal is to get the big issues right, and not to be as PC as possible.

I’m hoping that the Men’s Movement will provide greater clarity for me on matters of positive gender identity. I’m actually pretty lost on what it means to be positively masculine.

M Dubz
M Dubz
9 years ago

@Hippodameia- Wow, that is awesome. Can I hold onto that for future reference?

@Astazha- Here’s the rule of thumb that I generally use. If I use an insult in a space that I didn’t know of the bigoted implications and someone tells me that it offended them, I don’t argue, and I don’t use that insult around them any more. If someone is an ally, it’s important to not insult them, and it provides a great opportunity for a creative workaround in one’s language.

M Dubz
M Dubz
9 years ago

Note just to be clear: if I know the bigoted implications and use it anyway, that is a jerk move.

Xardoz
Xardoz
9 years ago

Michael Moore: unintentionally helping Republicans since the 90s. 🙁 Seriously, I’ve heard people say they wouldn’t have voted for GWB if it wasn’t for Moore’s documentaries “pissing them off.” I still think they’re stupid, but I sort-of kind-of know where they’re coming from now.

amandajane5
9 years ago

Can we get rid of Mags just for her desire to come in and declare “First!” in the comments? I mean for serious. Good for you honey, I’m so glad you can be the first person who comments in a thread. Do you have anything to say? What? You never do? You just declare yourself to be a woman-hater and MRA supporter with nothing to say? And honestly your “first!” posts are the most informative ones you have. It’s so tiresome.

darksidecat
9 years ago

Part of male identity is being not-feminine…

Way to deliver an attack on the identities of all femme men as part of your apologism for sexism against women. Bravo on that one. e_e

amandajane5
9 years ago

Sorry, most endearing and most informative. So many sides!

Quackers
Quackers
9 years ago

@Astazha

Nothing worse than being like an inferior woman right? and I know I define my female identity by not being like a violent, perverted man!

/sarcasm

Quackers
Quackers
9 years ago

@Astazah

and yeah, way to disregard all the femme men out there like DSC mentioned. What a misandrist you are.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

Sigh. Those are the words of a man who knows that in theory sexism is bad, but doesn’t actually understand why.

evilwhitemalempire
evilwhitemalempire
9 years ago

must be nice having so much power that you can actually afford to burn an utterly devoted sycophant for less than ideal support

Kyrie
Kyrie
9 years ago

EWME, I’m pretty sure we haven’t “burnt” him. Moore’s career won’t be destroyed by this tweet, I’m pretty sure of it. Even if it was, it would certainly be not because of MB. Anyway calling someone (especially allies) on their sexism or wathever-ism is good for them, it’s a chance for them (and people who look up to them) to change and get better.

But yeah, you’re right. It is nice to be able to hold your allies to high standard. Don’t be too jealous. 🙂

Shadow
Shadow
9 years ago

must be nice having so much power that you can actually afford to burn an utterly devoted sycophant for less than ideal support

Must be sad to belong to a movement so lacking in convictions that it’ll take anyone that kinda agrees with them

Shadow
Shadow
9 years ago

To be fair, Astazah’s post reads to me as someone who gets that it’s problematic to ID masculine as not-feminine, but is unsure where that leaves him. At least that’s what I got from reading:

Part of male identity is being not-feminine, and it’s common for men to attack each other’s masculinity like this. Nancy, pansy, pussy, bitch, etc. There’s a current of misogyny to it, but the notion of entirely abandoning this creates a lot of confusion in my mind

and

I’m hoping that the Men’s Movement will provide greater clarity for me on matters of positive gender identity. I’m actually pretty lost on what it means to be positively masculine.

Hopefully I’m not just being optimistic, despite the dog whistle of

and not to be as PC as possible.

Xardoz
Xardoz
9 years ago

Ha, because “sort-of kind-of” knowing where rabid Moore haters are coming from is the same as throwing him under the bus. I also didn’t like when he creatively edited clips, but that was a long time ago.

Politicians and celebrities all need their hands held on twitter, and you have to be on your best behavior when you’re up against well-funded right-wing think tanks and talking heads. I hope Moore learns a lesson from this.

Viscaria
Viscaria
9 years ago

Must be sad to belong to a movement so lacking in convictions that it’ll take anyone that kinda agrees with them

Quoted for truth and general all-around awesomeness.

M Dubz
M Dubz
9 years ago

@Xardoz- You think he would have learned after the Moore and Me debacle. (for the background on that click below) I thought that he did learn. But apparently not.

http://tigerbeatdown.com/2010/12/15/mooreandme-on-dude-progressives-rape-apologism-and-the-little-guy/

Astazha
Astazha
9 years ago

This seems like a thoughtful community with a pretty high level of discussion. I’m here to interact, to discuss, and to learn. I was raised in a pretty destructive environment that included sexism and misogyny, among other distortions. Understanding feminism in a thorough and balanced way has been a lifelong struggle for me, and my participation here is part of that personal journey. I’m wrong about some stuff, and I have some prejudices going in that I have not yet worked through; I know this going in. When I use language of uncertainty, as I’ve done in that post, I’m indicating a place where I’m open to new ideas and better understanding. I understand that manboobz isn’t here for my personal education; on a site with the stated purpose of mocking misogyny, some of you are just going to do that and move on. All the same, I invite deeper discussion from anyone who is willing to entertain it, and hope to further my understanding and ultimately reach a place where all of my thoughts, ideas, and feelings about gender are self-consistent and fair.

@CassandraSays: I would describe my reasons for believing sexism is bad as the following: All human beings have the right to self determine, to self realize. The gems of human experience (hope, respect, opportunity, appreciation, and more) should be available to us all. Sexism, like all “isms”, restricts a group from accessing the fullness of what human experience can be. Patriarchy specifically disempowers women, makes them dependent on and subservient to men. This is obviously destructive to women, and to heterosexual relationships, but less obviously has destructive impacts on men, too. What would you amend or add to that?

@darksidecat and @Quackers: How would you describe and differentiate femininity and masculinity, or what resources would you suggest on the topic?

@Quackers: I don’t have issue with a femme man, which if I understand the term correctly is a man who identifies as feminine (but not necessarily gay). I sometimes switch into this myself, possibly because the pressure of being masculine in a traditional fashion can be too much and I have not yet come to an understanding of what a newer, healthier masculinity would mean. I also don’t think that the feminine is inferior to the masculine, just that there is some exclusivity (as well as overlap) to the terms. To say that something is dark is to say that it is not light. The speaker might prefer one over the other, but doesn’t have to. The gender binary is too simple, but I don’t have a better model in my head except perhaps a spectrum. If we think of masculine & feminine as, instead of two sides of coin, two facets on a diamond, it would still seem apparent to me that they are opposite facets. Thoughts?