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Your penis, your choice — not your responsibility!

Ladies use these to extract money from helpless men.

When men and women have consensual sex, who is responsible? If you said “both, because they both agreed to and participated in it,” you might be some sort of misandrist feminazi. Because, as W.F. Price explains in a recent Spearhead post, it’s really women who are responsible for consensual heterosexual sex.

If you’re wondering how that could be, well, keep reading. Price starts off by considering what he calls “the feminist claims of mass rape throughout society.”

If as many rapes happen as they claim, chances are someone on your street has been raped recently. There must be multiple simultaneous rapes occurring at any given time within your zip code. Can you hear the silence screaming around you? (this is probably what goes through the minds of feminists).

Why yes, Mr. Price, chances are that someone on my street has been raped recently. Indeed, I know numerous women who have been raped. I’m guessing most women don’t share the intensely personal fact that they’ve been raped with you, Mr. Price, because you’re the sort of person who likes to go around talking dismissively about “the feminist claims of mass rape throughout society.”

Let’s continue:

Anyway, the point is that if men are so irrepressibly prone to rape and so sexually voracious, and women so prone to being unwilling, then who really is most responsible when consensual sex does happen?

Well, that’s an interesting approach to logic: snidely dismiss the fact that rape is common, then go ahead and assume it’s true for the sake of the rest of your argument:

One of the most sacred and cherished rights of feminists is the right to say “no” — that is, the right to deny sex. Do men value the ability to deny sex as much as women? Perhaps when it comes to forced sodomy, but that isn’t a common issue. One rarely sees men marching down the street with placards declaring that “NO MEANS NO,” and when they do, they are generally just holding signs for women. So, if women actually like denying sex, and are more likely to exercise that power, who has more choice when it comes to whether or not a given sex act will occur?

I cannot help but marvel at the twisted logic here. Women want the right to say no to sex they do not want to have. But getting this “no” to be taken seriously is such a problem that some women organize actual protests in the streets to declare that “no means no,” and this means that … they are the ones responsible for sex.

And if women are more responsible for sex than the men they have sex with, just who should bear the responsibility for the pregnancies that sometimes follow? I think you see where Price is going here, but let’s let him spell it out:

Let’s break it down:

    Men have a higher sex drive than women

    Men have less control over their sexual impulses

    Women value the ability to deny sex

    Women are far more likely and able to deny sex than men

If the above are true, then barring outright rape, surely women are more to blame for pregnancy than men. So why does the law treat males and females as equal participants in the sex act, and why does policy hold the man to be more responsible? Clearly, the female has more control.

Since women sometimes say no to sex, they should bear all the costs of raising children?

It’s the strangest evo-psych argument I’ve seen so far: Since men are hardwired to be horndog sex-havers, they shouldn’t have to take responsibility for the consequences of this sexual activity, at least when it comes to contributing something to support the children that sometimes show up about nine months later. Ladies: think of the poor men, at the mercy of their boners! How dare you expect that they pay their share of the costs of raising a child?

In Price’s mind, child support is not only unfair to poor horndog men, it’s  a cancer destroying civilization as we know it:

There’s been a lot of hand-wringing over the disintegration of the American family and marriage, but few people dare to point out the obvious reason America is fast becoming a nation of bastards. It’s actually fairly clear: women are not being held to the appropriate level of responsibility where their sexual choices are concerned. In the old days, it was understood that, barring rape, women were more responsible for who they slept with than men, and if they screwed up they had to deal with it. This is why the rate of illegitimacy was so low for so long. However, today, women can get pregnant and receive guaranteed support from not only the government, but whatever random man they permitted to have sex with them.

Raising a child as a single mom is apparently the easiest thing in the world. But making men pay for a portion of the costs for this child is tyranny!

Holding men more responsible than women for sex has been an abysmal failure, yet the policy remains in place despite thousands of years of received wisdom that lets us know it is a bad idea. Holding men and women equally responsible would be inappropriate as well, but we’ve gone past even that. Without some change in policy soon, the majority of all births in the United States will be illegitimate in a decade or so. The current system, which absolves women of responsibility for a choice that is largely in their hands, and for which they have even more options and tools at their disposal to deal with the consequences than ever, is unsustainable.

Despite his own handwringing about the state of The Family, Price doesn’t’ spell out how married men fit into his sex-responsibility equation. Are married men considered as responsible for babies as their wives? Is this responsibility retroactively nullified if they get divorced? It’s all very complicated. Which is, I guess, inevitable, once you arbitrarily decide that two consenting adults who have sex with one another are somehow not equally responsible for this sex.

Naturally, the Spearhead peanut gallery provided many more nuggets of wisdom. WGMOW – apparently a woman herself – gave Price’s bizarre argument a big ditto:

I don’t even see anthing debatable here. It is entirely the females who make the decision when and where to get knocked up, and then get child support from a man with the means to provide her with a bank account and credit cards seemingly for life. It there is no such man available she gets handouts from Big Daddy Government in the form of welfare, Sec 8 housing, free utilities, food stamps, free health care, free college education, and in some states, even a car.

These are the females that feminists say are “strong, powerful, and smart.” Bullshit. They are just as dependant as the females of the Victorian age. Then, they went from the care of their fathers into the care of their husbands. Now, they go from the care of their welfare mothers into the care of the government. All courtesy of our tax dollars.

AfOR put it even more bluntly:

The law fucks men over because they can be made to bleed more than a wimminz, they make better hosts for the parasites of society than wimminz.

Who exactly are the parasites here? The babies?

Hf seemed annoyed that women are allowed any autonomy at all:

Women typically struggle with knowing what exactly it is that they want. The “No Means No” movement is just as much trying to convince themselves and each other as it is trying to convince men. Deception is very much a part of a woman’s autonomy.

Nehalem provided a new slogan for the no-male-responsibility-for-sex-or-babies movement:

To get the point across more easily I suggest we modify a common liberal slogan and say:

Her body, her choice, her responsibility.

This being The Spearhead, it sort of goes without saying that each of these comments got dozens of upvotes.

Apparently, then, the only responsible course of action for unmarried women today is to never ever have sex with men. No sex, no consequences, no responsibilities to share with force upon men! But somehow I suspect that the MRAs of the world wouldn’t be happy with this solution.

 

 

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Mesogog
Mesogog
9 years ago

Yeah, well in the end I decided I didn’t really care whether you guys wanted me around. Alphas generally don’t.

Mesogog
Mesogog
9 years ago

And Mesogog was fucking awesome, that’s the end of the significance.

Viscaria
Viscaria
9 years ago

Yeah, but dude, do you have enough Eggos? Those things can be great. Especially if you don’t own an iron for real waffles.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

“Yeah, well in the end I decided I didn’t really care whether you guys wanted me around. Alphas generally don’t.”

Definitely MRAL. Can we maybe all agree to just ignore him?

Viscaria, stop making me hungry.

felixBC
felixBC
9 years ago

Alphas don’t want you around? I can see that. And the rest of us, too.

@cassandrasays But, he’s such fun. In a “I really should be cleaning the bathroom instead” kind of way.

Viscaria
Viscaria
9 years ago

Sorry Cassandra XD

Crumbelievable
Crumbelievable
9 years ago

You like Power Rangers, do ya?

http://villains.wikia.com/wiki/Mesogog

felixBC
felixBC
9 years ago

“He took on the Rangers, proving nearly invincible and even split into four copies of himself”.

SO much clearer now.

He’s got a son named Trent. How do evil Mesogogs reproduce, anyways? Is Elsa the mother?

Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

Mesogog was briefly funny, I’ll give him that, but now I think he’s just MRAL.

MRAL is like that guy who you break up with, so he tells you you’re not allowed to break up with him until you explain whyyyyy, so you kick him out of your house, so he hangs around the porch all night, so you threaten to call the cops, so he pretends to leave but then comes back all the time, so you start drawing the curtains and closing the deadbolts whenever you see his car, so he starts renting different cars.

MRAL, if you are at the point of renting different cars, you really should know that this isn’t about getting accepted into the community again. This is just about ignoring the concept of “NO YOU CANNOT BE HERE” in increasingly disturbing and inappropriate ways.

Kollege Messerschmitt
9 years ago

I actually thought that Mesogog is quite hilarious and is obviously going for the over-the-top alpha rhetoric while actually making fun of it ;-; But maybe that’s just because I’m drunk as fuck!

meg sog could stand for Meg’s Sock, though! But which Meg?

Kollege Messerschmitt
9 years ago

And by sock, I mean sockpuppet.
If it’s really MRAL though, it would be quite impressive!

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

It seems like he’s obsessed with proving to himself that we all just turned against him for some irrational reason and if he could just get past that/make us forget we’d all like him. But nope, he’s tried to start over multiple times, and most people here still don’t like him.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

Though this isn’t necessarily MRAL. Could be, but could also be Om Nom, Hengist, or a few others. There are tons of them, and other than a few verbal tics they all sound very similar.

Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

I didn’t know for sure it was MRAL until:

Yeah, well in the end I decided I didn’t really care whether you guys wanted me around. Alphas generally don’t.

And then I knew.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

Yeah, that comment does kind of tip the balance in an “oh go away, child” direction.

Kollege Messerschmitt
9 years ago

Hm, good point, Holly :
Though it could have been meant as hyperbole?

Also Om Nom Nom was really dull while Mesogog actually made me chuckle a bit IRL (YMMV).
I actually thought they are one of the regulars.

kladle
kladle
9 years ago

Whenever I see that MRAL’s around, I always hear a jingle in my head:

MRAL, MRAL go away
Don’t come back another day

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

So far the only troll who’s genuinely funny in an intentional way is Arks. Meller is hilarious, but he doesn’t mean to be.

Mesogog
Mesogog
9 years ago

Jesus Christ you guys are obsessed with MRAL.

I’m off to poop on a girl now.

zhinxy
9 years ago

Nephrite, I think there’s a group for betas traumatized by exposure to Alpha cock, but I have no idea where they meet, as they and their misery fill me only with mirth.

ozyMRAndias
9 years ago

I have no idea who this Ozymandias beta is. “Zie” probably never gets laid.

kladle
kladle
9 years ago

Nephrite, I think there’s a group for betas traumatized by exposure to Alpha cock, but I have no idea where they meet, as they and their misery fill me only with mirth.

more like “fill you with GIRTH” amirite lololollollooll

zhinxy
9 years ago

Nephrite Yeqon | February 27, 2012 at 5:53 am
but when the cop cars approached, flashing lights bathing the sidewalk in blue and white, they saw my swaggering cock leading out eight inches in front of me, swaying with each step, a testament to my status. Then they understood, and they panicked, slamming their foot on the reverse pedal and, tires squealing, the cops fled.

So that was YOU. I still have nightmares about that night. I had to quit the fucking force because your alpha cock kept haunting my dreams.

Night after night I’d wake up screaming “PUT IT AWAY PUT IT AWAY SHE’S YOURS SHE’S YOURS!”

I’m lucky I’m only a beta, my partner was an omega and his testicles shriveled right up and they’ve never recovered and he’s now a shell of his former self because fucking feminist health insurance doesn’t cover “testicle damage due to extreme alphaness”.

Fucking alphas.

(please don’t hurt me)”

………….

Meant to quote that in the original for context.

Nephrite. Megagog. Is this not just regular Alpha vs. Beta scuffling, but perhaps some sort of End Times battle of the Nephilim?

Mesogog
Mesogog
9 years ago

Look, in all seriousness, I’m sorry if I rubbed some people the wrong way. My stories were meant to be funny spoofs on the MRAssholes. I tried to make that as clear as possible, but I guess it’s hard to out-Poe some of these guys.

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

MRAL needs a D in his name, then he can be Michaelangelo Raphael, April, Leonardo and Donatello xD

Viscaria
Viscaria
9 years ago

Until those last few last comments, I was with Kollege Messerschmitt. I thought Mesogog was someone friendly who was making fun of that silly PUA stuff — thus the Penis of Wildly Varying Lengths. Now I am unsure!

Aw, ozyMRAndias. So confused 😉

Viscaria
Viscaria
9 years ago

I was ninja’ed by the very person I was talking about! I tip my hat to you, Mesogog, you alpha sex god.

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

So basically this was MRAL’s attempt to pretend to be me and get good faith and then try to sneak in his awfulness? -_- I guess his new trolling hotspots didn’t work out because people didn’t tolerate him like we do.

ozymandias42
9 years ago

Mesogog: That’s why I tried to make it extremely obvious that I’m Ozy trolling and not actually an MRA. Of course, then people think I agree with OzyMRAndias, so I guess there’s no way to win.

Dracula
Dracula
9 years ago

Jesus Christ you guys are obsessed with MRAL.

Fer real you guys, ya’ll seem oddly fixated on that guy who keeps harassing you. What’s up with that? You’d think he’d consistently refused to leave you peace and move on with his life or somethin’.

Dracula
Dracula
9 years ago

*in peace

ozymandias42
9 years ago

I honestly don’t think it’s MRAL, guys.

Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

I wonder at what point the guy who rents different cars to more effectively stalk his ex stops thinking “this is a reasonable step to try to get closure to a relationship” and starts just being on autopilot, like, “I’m obsessing on her because that’s what I do.”

I mean, there has to be a point where he’s intellectually aware that no, the things you are doing cannot get you what you want, nobody ever got a girlfriend back because he tricked her into not hiding from his car? But he’s just gotten so used to being stalkier and stalkier that he can’t step back and think about it rationally, I guess. And I think after a while it’s less about the object of his pursuit and more about the pursuit itself, and all the pride and obsession he’s sunk into “you cannot deny me a thing that I want, because when I want a thing I will get it.

And after a while of that going down to Avis and specifically requesting a red one this time just seems like the reasonable thing to do.

…These are the kind of thoughts MRAL makes me think.

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

And I think after a while it’s less about the object of his pursuit and more about the pursuit itself, and all the pride and obsession he’s sunk into “you cannot deny me a thing that I want, because when I want a thing I will get it.”

That is pretty much the raison d’etre of a lot of MRA stuff :

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

“you cannot deny me a thing that I want, because when I want a thing I will get it.”

That certainly seems to be the MRA approach to a lot of issues. Even when it comes to things they don’t want, they’ll still spend infinite amounts of time and energy arguing about how they should have them because what if they did want them? It’s the idea that women have the power and authority to say no that irks them.

Rutee Katreya
9 years ago

4MRAL is beyond pathetic. Guess he didn’t get enough negative attention at Pharyngula.

He got plenty. You think *you* guys play with the trolls a lot? SOP there is to feed them til they explode.

However, PZ has an additional rule on trolls most places don’t. “If you bore me, I’m kicking you out”. MRAL was definitely boring him XD

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

This one started out vaguely amusing, but I have to say, he’s gotten pretty boring lately. It’s a shame we don’t have one of those dunking chairs that county fairs have.

Kollege Messerschmitt
9 years ago

@Viscaria
to be honest I still don’t think that it’s MRAL because it lacks the real, barely hidden bitterness that usually seeps through when he posts with a sock ):
I guess Mesogog really did (too?) good a job at poe-ing. As they said, you can’t effectively poe those guys.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

Actually PUAs are really easy to Poe the way this one is doing it because they never think of themselves as Alphas. If they did, they would have no need for PUA, thus they wouldn’t be talking about it. So you basically just take their terminology and outlook and adopt a slightly different perspective (not the woe is me, I was a beta, and now I’m…still a beta, but dammit I know what’s up!).

Kollege Messerschmitt
9 years ago

Hm, that’s probably true.
Especially if you throw in as many HB9s, kinos, negs, DHVs or whatever kind of weird acronyms and words they have, just for good measure.
If it looks like it could be mistaken for actual human interaction, it was done wrong!

belledame222
9 years ago

I thought the meso persona seemed too well-adjusted to be MRAL, who usually can’t go more than a few comments without decompensating into bitter whininess, but, what do I know. I’m still freaked out about the whole business where Meller played along with “Irene.” I DON’T KNOW WHAT TO THINK ANYMORE *sob*

belledame222
9 years ago

which isn’t to say I don’t agree about MRAL being stalkeriffic. I just dunno if it’s this person.

FelixBC
FelixBC
9 years ago

But Mesobobgob posted as Nephrite (5:53am) = MRAL
Ami posted the same comment, above. Or?

Rutee, what name did the young’un use on Pharyngula? I’d enjoy Bambi’s crushing by the horde.

Kyrie
Kyrie
9 years ago

Mesogog, if you’re not MRAL, how about you let David know who you are, by, for example, stopping to hid your ip address? It started fun enough, but now you really sound way too much like MRAL. Even in the way you defend yourself from being him.

Wetherby
Wetherby
9 years ago

FelixBC – a quick Google for ‘Pharyngula MRAL’ revealed that he called himself ‘matriarchy’ (ho ho very satirical).

You can see how popular he was here, here and here.

I also checked the Dungeon, but he hasn’t been banned, so there may be more.

Wetherby
Wetherby
9 years ago

But he’s clearly come close, since PZ Myers observed:

Matriarchy: you really are tedious and inane. Stop now. Go whine on some MRA site somewhere, because you’re pretty damned close to getting banned here.

Wetherby
Wetherby
9 years ago

Oh, and having just read his Pharyngula comments I’d just like to retract every positive thing that I ever wrote about him round these parts. He’s a repulsive little troll, and I use the word “little” both figuratively and, of course, literally.

And congratulations to the Pharyngula horde for rumbling him immediately. Mind you, he wasn’t exactly subtle.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

The question is, where is petulant trollboy going to go next once he gets banned from Pharyngula? Can it be Feministe? I want to see Jill bat him around like a cat toy.

Wetherby
Wetherby
9 years ago

This is priceless:

We need to keep pushing against misandry and male disposability. There’s a guy on the web, Paul Elam, who does a lot of men’s activism- we need more people like him. I only just first visited his site today- I find him a bit dogmatic and angry, but all the same I’m not complaining. He’s down to do the work.

So not just a troll but a lying troll. In fact, I think the first time I said something nice about MRAL was when he explicitly distanced himself from Elam – you know, the guy whose site he “only just first visited today”.