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Your penis, your choice — not your responsibility!

Ladies use these to extract money from helpless men.

When men and women have consensual sex, who is responsible? If you said “both, because they both agreed to and participated in it,” you might be some sort of misandrist feminazi. Because, as W.F. Price explains in a recent Spearhead post, it’s really women who are responsible for consensual heterosexual sex.

If you’re wondering how that could be, well, keep reading. Price starts off by considering what he calls “the feminist claims of mass rape throughout society.”

If as many rapes happen as they claim, chances are someone on your street has been raped recently. There must be multiple simultaneous rapes occurring at any given time within your zip code. Can you hear the silence screaming around you? (this is probably what goes through the minds of feminists).

Why yes, Mr. Price, chances are that someone on my street has been raped recently. Indeed, I know numerous women who have been raped. I’m guessing most women don’t share the intensely personal fact that they’ve been raped with you, Mr. Price, because you’re the sort of person who likes to go around talking dismissively about “the feminist claims of mass rape throughout society.”

Let’s continue:

Anyway, the point is that if men are so irrepressibly prone to rape and so sexually voracious, and women so prone to being unwilling, then who really is most responsible when consensual sex does happen?

Well, that’s an interesting approach to logic: snidely dismiss the fact that rape is common, then go ahead and assume it’s true for the sake of the rest of your argument:

One of the most sacred and cherished rights of feminists is the right to say “no” — that is, the right to deny sex. Do men value the ability to deny sex as much as women? Perhaps when it comes to forced sodomy, but that isn’t a common issue. One rarely sees men marching down the street with placards declaring that “NO MEANS NO,” and when they do, they are generally just holding signs for women. So, if women actually like denying sex, and are more likely to exercise that power, who has more choice when it comes to whether or not a given sex act will occur?

I cannot help but marvel at the twisted logic here. Women want the right to say no to sex they do not want to have. But getting this “no” to be taken seriously is such a problem that some women organize actual protests in the streets to declare that “no means no,” and this means that … they are the ones responsible for sex.

And if women are more responsible for sex than the men they have sex with, just who should bear the responsibility for the pregnancies that sometimes follow? I think you see where Price is going here, but let’s let him spell it out:

Let’s break it down:

    Men have a higher sex drive than women

    Men have less control over their sexual impulses

    Women value the ability to deny sex

    Women are far more likely and able to deny sex than men

If the above are true, then barring outright rape, surely women are more to blame for pregnancy than men. So why does the law treat males and females as equal participants in the sex act, and why does policy hold the man to be more responsible? Clearly, the female has more control.

Since women sometimes say no to sex, they should bear all the costs of raising children?

It’s the strangest evo-psych argument I’ve seen so far: Since men are hardwired to be horndog sex-havers, they shouldn’t have to take responsibility for the consequences of this sexual activity, at least when it comes to contributing something to support the children that sometimes show up about nine months later. Ladies: think of the poor men, at the mercy of their boners! How dare you expect that they pay their share of the costs of raising a child?

In Price’s mind, child support is not only unfair to poor horndog men, it’s  a cancer destroying civilization as we know it:

There’s been a lot of hand-wringing over the disintegration of the American family and marriage, but few people dare to point out the obvious reason America is fast becoming a nation of bastards. It’s actually fairly clear: women are not being held to the appropriate level of responsibility where their sexual choices are concerned. In the old days, it was understood that, barring rape, women were more responsible for who they slept with than men, and if they screwed up they had to deal with it. This is why the rate of illegitimacy was so low for so long. However, today, women can get pregnant and receive guaranteed support from not only the government, but whatever random man they permitted to have sex with them.

Raising a child as a single mom is apparently the easiest thing in the world. But making men pay for a portion of the costs for this child is tyranny!

Holding men more responsible than women for sex has been an abysmal failure, yet the policy remains in place despite thousands of years of received wisdom that lets us know it is a bad idea. Holding men and women equally responsible would be inappropriate as well, but we’ve gone past even that. Without some change in policy soon, the majority of all births in the United States will be illegitimate in a decade or so. The current system, which absolves women of responsibility for a choice that is largely in their hands, and for which they have even more options and tools at their disposal to deal with the consequences than ever, is unsustainable.

Despite his own handwringing about the state of The Family, Price doesn’t’ spell out how married men fit into his sex-responsibility equation. Are married men considered as responsible for babies as their wives? Is this responsibility retroactively nullified if they get divorced? It’s all very complicated. Which is, I guess, inevitable, once you arbitrarily decide that two consenting adults who have sex with one another are somehow not equally responsible for this sex.

Naturally, the Spearhead peanut gallery provided many more nuggets of wisdom. WGMOW – apparently a woman herself – gave Price’s bizarre argument a big ditto:

I don’t even see anthing debatable here. It is entirely the females who make the decision when and where to get knocked up, and then get child support from a man with the means to provide her with a bank account and credit cards seemingly for life. It there is no such man available she gets handouts from Big Daddy Government in the form of welfare, Sec 8 housing, free utilities, food stamps, free health care, free college education, and in some states, even a car.

These are the females that feminists say are “strong, powerful, and smart.” Bullshit. They are just as dependant as the females of the Victorian age. Then, they went from the care of their fathers into the care of their husbands. Now, they go from the care of their welfare mothers into the care of the government. All courtesy of our tax dollars.

AfOR put it even more bluntly:

The law fucks men over because they can be made to bleed more than a wimminz, they make better hosts for the parasites of society than wimminz.

Who exactly are the parasites here? The babies?

Hf seemed annoyed that women are allowed any autonomy at all:

Women typically struggle with knowing what exactly it is that they want. The “No Means No” movement is just as much trying to convince themselves and each other as it is trying to convince men. Deception is very much a part of a woman’s autonomy.

Nehalem provided a new slogan for the no-male-responsibility-for-sex-or-babies movement:

To get the point across more easily I suggest we modify a common liberal slogan and say:

Her body, her choice, her responsibility.

This being The Spearhead, it sort of goes without saying that each of these comments got dozens of upvotes.

Apparently, then, the only responsible course of action for unmarried women today is to never ever have sex with men. No sex, no consequences, no responsibilities to share with force upon men! But somehow I suspect that the MRAs of the world wouldn’t be happy with this solution.

 

 

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Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

Men have a higher sex drive than women
Men have less control over their sexual impulses

What a fucking misandrist.

The law fucks men over because they can be made to bleed more than a wimminz, they make better hosts for the parasites of society than wimminz.

That’s the funniest phrasing I ever heard for “yeah, there is a huge gap in income and wealth between men and women.”

Her body, her choice, her responsibility.

You know, if this “men just default to ‘yes’ and women are the only ones making decisions” crap were true, my college years would have been a lot more fun.

Also… does anyone have Joel McHale’s address? Since men cannot say “no” to sex once asked, it follows that all I need is a chance to ask!

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

The only interesting thing here is the baby with the WTF expression. I feel you, little baby. It really does suck that you have to be born into a world where these assclowns exist.

In other news, MRAs still convinced that everything is women’s fault, still obsessed with making women suffer.

Rutee Katreya
9 years ago

The law fucks men over because they can be made to bleed more than a wimminz, they make better hosts for the parasites of society than wimminz.

10 to 1 odds this galtian titan among us is just another 99%er.

For real, if men were as horny as MRAs say, that they simply couldn’t control themselves at all, society would need to be organized much more differently to remain civilized. I’m thinking some kind of prison system for dudes.

But it’s horse shit, so I’m not worried about it.

blitzgal
9 years ago

Something tells me that there is a lot of overlap between MRAs who claim that women routinely steal money from men by having the nerve to get pregnant and the dudes Amanda Marcotte’s been arguing with on Twitter regarding contraception.

http://pandagon.net/index.php/site/fighting-the-mansplaining-anti-sex-police#When:23:02:53Z

pillowinhell
9 years ago

That is one seriously cute baby! And the look on its little face is priceless!

Also, feminists don’t need to say that all men are rapists…because the MRA just constantly blare that message any time they can. Men are so completely at the mercy of horomones huh? Uh huh.

Why is it that men should be allowed compassion and whatever they want because BIOLOGY, but women should be ground into the dirt because BIOLOGY?

And for the record, any mofo who subscribes to this thinking and happens to impregnate me can take that hike. I want nothing whatsoever to do with him.

Crumbelievable
Crumbelievable
9 years ago

It’s kind of amazing to me… the degree to which MRAs can deny rape culture while simultaneously working to perpetuate it.

Dracula
Dracula
9 years ago

Seems to me pretending rape culture doesn’t exist is an essential part of perpetuating it.

Dani Alexis
Dani Alexis
9 years ago

I have a new tagline for sexist things that crap on men. I call it “oh, sexism, everything you do is stupid.”

Men have a higher sex drive than women
Men have less control over their sexual impulses

Oh, sexism. Everything you do is stupid.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

Rape culture doesn’t exist, and that’s why we should take advantage of the fact that it exists! MRA logic at its finest.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

@ Dani

Mine is “sexism makes people stupid”.

Shadow
Shadow
9 years ago

WTF Price?

Shadow
Shadow
9 years ago

BTW isn’t Price someone who has advocated for default joint custody?

Ms. Crazy Pants
Ms. Crazy Pants
9 years ago

“You know, if this “men just default to ‘yes’ and women are the only ones making decisions” crap were true, my college years would have been a lot more fun.”

–I never thought of it that way. That just made me think of the Selecting Escorts scene from History of the World: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6eTTaY1a6M.
(NTFW)

Moewicus
Moewicus
9 years ago

Don’t forget the part where Price uses his brilliant logic to conclude that adult women having sex with adolescent boys is worse than the reverse-gendered scenario because adolescent boys actually want sex. So much wrong. Aside from his “men always want it” bullshit that erases male rape victims, he’s literally saying it’s worse to have sex with someone who does want it than someone who doesn’t, all abuses of power being otherwise equal. This is someone to whom consent does not mean a whole lot.

Myoo
Myoo
9 years ago

It there is no such man available she gets handouts from Big Daddy Government in the form of welfare, Sec 8 housing, free utilities, food stamps, free health care, free college education, and in some states, even a car.

A car? Even ignoring all the other bullshit, a car? I have never heard of any social service anywhere in the world giving anyone a car. A bus or subway pass, maybe, but a car? Who believes that?

A car, really?

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

“Aside from his “men always want it” bullshit that erases male rape victims, he’s literally saying it’s worse to have sex with someone who does want it than someone who doesn’t, all abuses of power being otherwise equal.”

Huh? No, seriously, what? It’s not even that he doesn’t think consent is important, apparently – he seems to actually think that consent is BAD.

Dracula
Dracula
9 years ago

It’s not even that he doesn’t think consent is important, apparently – he seems to actually think that consent is BAD.

Lots of these guys feel that way. NWO springs to mind.

Crumbelievable
Crumbelievable
9 years ago

@Myoo:

There are some programs that donate used cars to single moms and welfare recipients.

However, that’s far from a ‘free ride’ (Haha, puns!) like these guys are making it out to be.

magdelyn
9 years ago

Well, David, that’s your first problem, reading The Spearhead at all.

darksidecat
9 years ago

I wonder if they take the line that a child is solely the child of the person who birthed them when it comes to child custody cases, or are they just assuming no man ever wants to have, raised, look after, etc. any child?

Viscaria
Viscaria
9 years ago

Kids.

They cost money.

They cost more than child support.

They also take energy and time to raise.

I… I feel like this isn’t confusing.

Also, as far as “her body, her choice, her responsibility?” Yeah, that’s kind of how it goes. People with wombs (who are not all “her”s, btw) have the choice of what goes on in those wombs. That requires responsibility. If I were to get pregnant without wanting to have a child, I would have to either choose to support the fetus in my body, which requires a lot of physical sacrifice and risk, or have a serious medical operation. Neither choice is exactly appealing, but I have the responsibility to make the best choice possible.

Dracula
Dracula
9 years ago

In the old days, it was understood that, barring rape, women were more responsible for who they slept with than men, and if they screwed up they had to deal with it.

“…barring rape…”? Bull-fucking-shit! In Ye Olde Days, women were (just as they still are) blamed for their own rapes all the fucking time.

Anthony Zarat
9 years ago

For once, I agree with you. Feminist discussions about sex are SO MUCH more appropriate than assenine MRA discussionas about ridiculous things like equal rights. Take, for example, the recent jezebel article entitled “Fuck, Marry, Kill: The Romney Sons.” Lucid feminist thinking about male sexual utility is summarized by the proposed fate for the children of presidential candidate Romney:

Taggert Romney is spared the sword because “he’s rich, a managing partner at Solamere Capital.” However, marriage is out of the question because he listens to Billy Joel, so the verdict is “FUCK”.

Josh Romney is another FUCK, because he is too good looking to kill — “He wears scruff unbelievably well. Fuckably well. This one’s saved from the theoretical guillotine by his handsomeness.

Craig Romney is a KILL, because “from [some angles he] looks like a delicate man with soft hands that may not know what to do with an axe or a boob.” Not bad boy enough to live, apparently.

Matt Romney is a MARRY because he is “arguably the hottest one” and would be easy to control.

Ben Romney dies too, a KILL because “his medical career could mean a lack of time for you and your marriage, dooming the long-term potential of the relationship from the start.”

Feminists are so sensible, caring, and compassionate. I really admire you people.

Bigots.

Dracula
Dracula
9 years ago

Okay, two things AntZ:

1) Jezebel can fuck off.

2) How is this relevant?

jumbofish
9 years ago

Well, David, that’s your first problem, reading The Spearhead at all.

See if you didn’t read any mras sites you wouldn’t see misogyny! The problem is not the misogynist writers or misogynist mras, the problem is that you read mra sites at all!

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

3) The comments on Jez were full of women complaining about how offensive they found the whole thing.

Shadow
Shadow
9 years ago

AntZ!!!! How you doing buddy? How’s that VR thing going?

And yes, that Jezebel article was in poor taste to start off with, but the kill thing was especially hypocritical and fucked up.

jumbofish
9 years ago

Jezebel is the center of the feminist community online? I thought it was a celeb gossip column aimed at women…oh wait

jumbofish
9 years ago

*gossip site

Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

Antz – Jezebel is not a feminist site. It’s a women’s site, with a heavily feminist readership, which was largely offended by the article.

We even have a thread in the Manboobz forum about that very article: http://manboobz.forummotion.com/t737-jezebel-writes-a-fuck-marry-kill-piece-about-romney-s-sons-pisses-me-off

So, no, “Fuck Marry Kill” is not THE TRUE FACE OF FEMINISM, in fact, it’s something that pissed off feminists before you even heard about it.

Jill the Spinster
Jill the Spinster
9 years ago

AFOR’s blog is truly scary

http://wimminz.wordpress.com/

pillowinhell
9 years ago

I was supposed to be learning feminism from Jezebel? Dammmn..

Also anthony, I could find plenty of articles from MRAs along the same lines as marry fuck kill . So what does your favorite word mean again?

Hypocrite.

Dracula
Dracula
9 years ago

I know it must be tough for you, Zarat. You want so badly for feminism to live up your expectations, to be a be mirror of your sad little hate movement. You’re grasping at straws, trying so very hard to show that “Look, they’re just as bad as I am! I’m not an asshole, ’cause look what they did!”

You got nothin’. Accept it.

Viscaria
Viscaria
9 years ago

For once, I agree with you. Feminist discussions about sex are SO MUCH more appropriate than assenine MRA discussionas about ridiculous things like equal rights. Take, for example, the recent jezebel article entitled “Fuck, Marry, Kill: The Romney Sons.”

Okay, so I’m learning that you, Zarat, like practically everybody here, don’t much like that Jezebel article. What do you think of the Spearhead piece in the OP? Do you like it?

Shadow
Shadow
9 years ago

I have to wonder WTF possessed them to change it from “Kill myself” to “Kill”. Like who looks at that and thinks that THAT’s what belongs on a site that purports to be part of a social movement?

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

AntZ, you really think Jezebel is heavy feminist reading? You probably do. Look, you’re not going to believe us when we say that article is offensive, so why don’t you fuck off and go perfect your VR wife replacement?

As for the OP, I fully support women not having sex with any guy who gives off so much as a whiff of MRA.

Crumbelievable
Crumbelievable
9 years ago

“For once, I agree with you. Feminist discussions about sex are SO MUCH more appropriate than assenine MRA discussionas about ridiculous things like equal rights”

Is that what you guys talk about? Equal rights? For some reason, I thought you were more concerned about arguing how female sufferage has destroyed Western civilization or gleefully declaring that fucking up feminists’ “shit” increases blood flow to your penises.

Yeah, I thought that Jezebel article was pretty bad too. I still think that feminism overall raises very important issues and I’m still going to support feminism over the MRM any day of the week.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

@ Shadow

I think the original game actually was fuck/marry/kill, and you’re confusing it with another game – X/Y/or cyanide.

Shadow
Shadow
9 years ago

@CassandraSays

Huh, interesting. The version I’ve come across was actually Fuck/Wife/Suicide, part of my decidedly more dickish teenage years (although, come to think of it, i still make “I’d rather die” comments so not necessarily “decidedly more”)

burgundy
burgundy
9 years ago

It was introduced to me as “Shag, bag, or cliff” which I think is at least more euphonious than “fuck/marry/kill.” It’s fun to play with fictional characters*, tacky to play with real people, and awful to play in a public forum with real people who never chose to be in the public eye in the first place. It also need not be gendered.

One of the nice things about feminism is the rejection of the idea that women are monolithic. Which means that it’s just not all that effective to try to condemn all feminists based on the actions of some group somewhere that is related to feminism only tangentially, if at all.

*The hardest choice I was ever given was Jonathan Strange, Mr. Norrell, and the man with the thistledown hair.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

Eh, I’m OK with the version of the game that has an “I’d rather die” option. It’s unkind, sure, and rather juvenile, but it’s not crossing the line into theoretically homicidal the way Fuck/Marry/Kill is. It’s the “if I don’t want to fuck X then zie should just die” bit that I find problematic, the “I’d rather die!” stuff is just hyperbole.

magdelyn
9 years ago

I love Chapin. He is hilarious as hell.

Shadow
Shadow
9 years ago

@Cassandra

Yeah, exactly. “I’d rather die” is a dickish thing to say (which gets less dickish when you have someone with views you find abhorrent or personal history) but the “I don’t want to fuck them so they should just die” is a bit too far for me. The thing is, even that would be something I can tolerate, or at least overlook. It’s taking something that you joke around with your friends and doing it to people on a mass read publication that I find unnecessarily cruel, and to intimate that these dudes should be killed (again, in a publication) because the author didn’t find them fuckable or marriage quality is just, to me, unconscionable. I mean, obviously it’s not literally calling for them to be killed, but still WTF.

Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
9 years ago

Your attempts to derail grow ever more pathetic, Zarat.

How about this? In the last few days, David has given us two posts that highlight self-described members of the MRA who don’t believe that men want to be fathers. That men should not have to be responsible for children because children are the sole desire and, therefore, responsibility of women.

Your thoughts? Are these statements true? Should men be absolved of support, financial or otherwise, for children? Are men completely adverse to fatherhood and forced, coerced into it by women?

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

Honestly, the Fuck/Marry/Kill the Romney kids post mostly struck me as a rather obvious and pathetic attempt to boost readership. That’s been happening a lot lately, the Jex writers essentially trolling their own blog for hits.

BoggiDWurms
9 years ago

AntZ’s post really made me laugh! It’s downright hilarious! It didn’t need anyone to comment on it, it destroys itself with its own idiocy.

This is what you are, AntZ:

http://manhattaninfidel.com/__oneclick_uploads/2011/05/bozo-the-clown.jpg

Bigot.

tatjna
tatjna
9 years ago

“I don’t even see anthing debatable here. It is entirely the females who make the decision when and where to get knocked up, and then get child support from a man with the means to provide her with a bank account and credit cards seemingly for life. It there is no such man available she gets handouts from Big Daddy Government in the form of welfare, Sec 8 housing, free utilities, food stamps, free health care, free college education, and in some states, even a car.”

Taking bets that WGMOW is actually NWO.

Valerie
Valerie
9 years ago

And STILL no talk of vasectomies. Can’t these dummies see that they have all the control over whether they impregnate someone? I’m beginning to suspect that they don’t actually want control. They just want to bitch about something… could that be? Could they just be feeling sorry for themselves? Heavy sarcasm, obviously.

@CassandraSays- I’m with you, the only thing of worth was the baby picture. So cute!

cloudiah
cloudiah
9 years ago

@BoggiDWurms There should be a trigger warning for clown pictures. Is it just me? They freak me the fuck out. It’s probably just me. 🙂

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