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The Burny Mike Show

All hail mikesteane, brave Reddit warrior and champion of the rights of men!

Found on the Men's Rights subreddit.
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thebewilderness
thebewilderness
9 years ago

My first thought when someone makes this sort of absurd claim is xkcd
http://xkcd.com/385/

My second thought is of a tee shirt I used to have that said:
ALASKA
Where men are men
And
Women win the Iditarod
again and again

red_locker
9 years ago

“The Gene Wilder version is the ONLY version.”

A-fucking-men.

Ullere
Ullere
9 years ago

The op has not said that a female firefighter can’t do anything because she is a woman, you are fighting imaginary sexism. The op’s claims is that this particular fire fighter was employed as a result of her gender ‘she was employed for reasons of political correctness’ rather than her ability or through merit, the employment of women to positions they are not suitable for because of their gender through affirmative action is not uncommon in the UK, it can in the case of safety critical roles lead to deaths. The employment and increased failure of incompetent women and minorities has been recorded academically as the glass cliff effect.

http://psy.ex.ac.uk/seorg/glasscliff/

While as you say any firefighter is capable of being incompetent and should be sacked if found to be so, affirmative employment policies result in women and other social groups being employed despite their incompetence.

Rutee Katreya
9 years ago

Wow, that is the most obtuse thing I’ve seen you say yet, Ullere. “This person didn’t OUTRIGHT SAY women are incompetent merely heavily implied it, so you can’t say that they said women are incompetent.

. The employment and increased failure of incompetent women and minorities has been recorded academically as the glass cliff effect.

http://psy.ex.ac.uk/seorg/glasscliff/

Did you read your research at all?

Thus women were more likely than men to be placed in positions already associated with poor company performance . In this way, female directors were more likely than male directors to find themselves on a glass cliff, such that their positions of leadership were more risky and precarious than those in which men found themselves.

While as you say any firefighter is capable of being incompetent and should be sacked if found to be so, affirmative employment policies result in women and other social groups being employed despite their incompetence.

Do you have any evidence for this proposition at all?

pillowinhell
9 years ago

Because of course, one instance of a mistake or difficulty in handling a job is absolute proof that not only the person is question is utterly unqualified, but so is their entire gender.

Do you have any idea how many men I would have had to fire in the restaurant business Ullere?

clairedammit
clairedammit
9 years ago

The glass cliff effect isn’t when incompetent women are promoted into positions that a man could do well, it’s when competent women are promoted into a risky position, such as after a company takes a downturn and any leadership position is doomed to fail.

Women who break through the glass ceiling in organisations are far more likely to be given difficult jobs than their male colleagues, psychologists have discovered.

clairedammit
clairedammit
9 years ago

Or, what Rutee said.

Shadow
Shadow
9 years ago

Oh why, OH WHY won’t this stupid, PC World understand that the white male is the only competent group alive! All this stupid affirmative action bullshit is doing is depriving a post of some wonderful, white malehood

Shadow
Shadow
9 years ago

@Ullere

Do you really mean to tell me that you believe that there aren’t enough qualified minorities and women to fill the measly quotas set aside for them?

Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

Ullere, I’m pretty sure you don’t believe yourself.

The op has not said that a female firefighter can’t do anything because she is a woman, you are fighting imaginary sexism. […] affirmative employment policies result in women and other social groups being employed despite their incompetence.

Nope, there’s no sexism at all in saying women (“and other social groups”) are employed despite their incompetence!

Or maybe you believe that affirmative action (which fire departments don’t have anyway, but we’ll continue) means that women are hired at random, whereas only the most qualified men are hired? That’s the most generous interpretation I have, and it only has the slight flaw of not making any sense.

Imagine: You’re a fire chief, and the Imaginary Feminist Overlords have decreed you must hire five women this year. Are you going to hire the five best women you find, or any five women at random? You’re going to hire the five best. And if you think that the five best women will still be incompetent fools… then, yes, you are being sexist.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

@Shaenon and Buttman:

Also there is this:

Looks like the course is designed to trip riders up. 🙂

Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

incompetent women and minorities […] women and other social groups being employed despite their incompetence.

I feel like this counts as having literally every prejudice at once.

red_locker
9 years ago

lol Ullere

/hasnothingtoadd

/thenagainneitherdoesUllere

BoggiDWurms
BoggiDWurms
9 years ago

Yes but watch the video, Holly. That one woman couldn’t do it, therefore no woman can do it. Logic!

>Most failures on the job are by men
>Woman fails at job.
>Obviously women suck and aren’t capable of doing this job.

MRAs are such profound thinkers…

red_locker
9 years ago

“affirmative employment policies result in women and other social groups being employed despite their incompetence.”

Yeah, highlighting what Holly highlighted again, because…wow. This is straight-up bigotry (or maybe just a clumsy fumbling of what Ullere thinks of as “fact”. Either way, wow).

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

Ya know, I watched that video of the female firefighter on the game show… I’m pretty sure you don’t learn to throw yourself at a door to get it to open. The video insinuated that, as she was failing, there could have been a family (YOURS!!!1!) burning to death on the other side…

Yes. On the other side of a door where you use your body weight to get it past a the tipping point of a hinge joint…

Or, you just do the sensible thing and use a tool. Forcible Entry Techniques for One Fire Fighter

Anyway, this is just another example of the xkcd comic someone brought up earlier, with the added benefit of “woman fails at task she doesn’t perform in her line of duty.”

zhinxy
9 years ago

Oh, Ullere’s back.

You are still mortal, Ullere. You can keep up the boring arguments about affirmative action forever, but death comes for all of us.

Pecunium
9 years ago

Ullere: You are splitting the hair pretty fine. Your argument (which is congruent to the OP) is that women who are hired are so incompetent that it requires gov’t action to get them so hired.

Unless what you are arguing is the Gov’t is taking random women (because they are women) and telling them they have to firefighters/cops/etc., because wel… WOMEN! The reasonable person has to assume that the women who are selected (even if there is pressure from above) are going to be the most qualified women who apply.

And… according to you, even those are woefully inadequate candidates.

Which is, in short, saying that women, as a class, can’t hack it.

katz
9 years ago

I knew a woman who was a fucking hotshot. She spent every summer putting out forest fires.

During the year, she was teacher. When boys acted out, she’d challenge them to a push-up contest.

BoggiDWurms
BoggiDWurms
9 years ago

“affirmative employment policies result in women and other social groups being employed despite their incompetence.”

Glad to know manwomanmyth (who is very intellectually incompetent) is more than just sexist. I’m glad when bigots who pretend to preach equality reveal their true colors.

Ya know, I watched that video of the female firefighter on the game show… I’m pretty sure you don’t learn to throw yourself at a door to get it to open. The video insinuated that, as she was failing, there could have been a family (YOURS!!!1!) burning to death on the other side…

Yes. On the other side of a door where you use your body weight to get it past a the tipping point of a hinge joint…

manwomanmyth is either hysterical or manipulative, perhaps both. What a man he is!

BoggiDWurms
BoggiDWurms
9 years ago

But really, who are we kidding. There are nutters in every corner of the world. MRAs are just another brand. They’re not special at all.

Crumbelievable
Crumbelievable
9 years ago

Ullere: “The op’s claims is that this particular fire fighter was employed as a result of her gender ‘she was employed for reasons of political correctness’ rather than her ability or through merit”

…Except that MRAs seem to think that about every woman.

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

Ullere, the irony of you calling anyone incompetent is not lost.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

RE The whole idea of women being naturally incompetent that Ullere et al are floating.

So, my Dad’s background is in engineering, and now that he’s in management he hires lots of engineers. He has said on several occasions that he likes hiring women because, if they’ve managed to get to the point in their careers where their resumes are on his desk, they’ve probably had to be twice as good as their male peers in order to get there. He also says that so far this assumption has always proven to be correct, and that the other reason he likes hiring female engineers is that they tend to feel like they have something to prove, so they work harder and make fewer mistakes.

The project he’s currently working on has no gender quotas. He’s still hired women, and they seem to be working out just fine.

(PS – Like Ullere, my Dad is a Scottish man. He’s also in his 60s. Once again I feel compelled to protect the good name of my people and point out that they’re not all sexist dumbasses.)

Glass
Glass
9 years ago

One of my regular regular fellow JuJitsu students was a average sized woman named Holly who was something of a legend locally because she was tenacious and skilled and frequently tapped out bigger stronger male opponents. She was also a wild-land firefighter and very very tough.

She also was a very skilled boxer and we tried to convince her to go pro MMA but she just liked it as a hobby and her passion was firefighting.

So, yeah. That’s all I’ve got.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

@Crumbelievable:

It’s kind of telling that when MRAs see women being hired for anything, there first reaction is to blame it on some sort of quota. Cause a woman couldn’t possibly be hired as a fire fighter on merit, oh no.

zhinxy
9 years ago

I went to fire training school in the military, and I did fine. I handled the same equipment as the guys in that school. Sure, a lot of them were stronger than me. A few of them were weaker. But I learned a lot, and I was considered capable. I guess you could say affirmative action had something to do with it on SOME level, (Really, it was about a small boat and my duties as an E-4, but you know, at some point, somewhere…). So what should have been done? I should have NOT been trained in fighting fires, and an objectively stronger guy should have been selected for it?

I swear, sometimes this logic seems like any competent fire fighting woman NEEDS to be replaced with a bigger, stronger man, obviously. But what about the guys that are already there, and aren’t the biggest and strongest? Aren’t they taking up a slot that could be better filled? All those men need to be replaced by bigger, stronger-er men. So eventually, we’re just selecting the biggest, strongest people in the nation, or, better, breeding superstrong white dude firefighters in secret tanks? All because you NEED to be SURE you have THE BEST PEOPLE fighting the fires!

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

@ zhinxy

I have a solution! From now on only retired former NFL players may be hired as firefighters. Thus they will be a. large, b. strong, and c. definitely not women.

Why they’d want to do the job after retiring with plenty of money I’m not sure, but this is a minor hurdle that will be easily overcome because MANLY.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

Addendum – Former NHL players may also be considered, but only if they were goons.

Rutee Katreya
9 years ago

Goons? Like, Something AWful readers? Is that a lot of NHL players?

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

Goons – The ones who fight a lot and don’t score many goals, usually distinguishable by their lack of both teeth and technical skill.

(Oh, some hockey fan is going to yell at me for that – how dare you denigrate our goons!)

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

Also, this is fun for talking about quotas in fire fighting (longish post): source

“Among the 350,000 paid firefighters in the nation today, the 2000 Census reports that women number slightly more than 11,000, or 3.7%. This figure places firefighting in the lowest 11 percent of all occupations in terms of women employees.”

“When fire department leaders are challenged about these numbers, they traditionally respond that women do not want and cannot handle the job, so numbers are to be expected. Are they right?

The proportion of women among the employees in these 184 occupations [that are similar in physical demand] is 17%.”

“A widely-held stereotype is that women are simply not strong enough to meet the job’s physical requirements, and, consequently, that departments employing women must be endangering public safety by lowering physical standards. This assumption misapplies generalizations about the general population of women to the unusually fit group of women who are typical firefighting applicants. Among recruits to the Milwaukee Fire Department, for example, prior to participating in the department’s training, the average female recruit was in the 85th percentile among
women of the same age in physical fitness. Table 2 reports that 35.0% of our women survey respondents were active in gyms or sports before they became firefighters, about double the male rate.”

“[About physical requirement tests in different departments] The remaining 54.2% implement “home grown” tests, many of them developed with little attention to professional techniques for test development and validation. Some tests reject trainees for slowness in sprinting when many departments forbid sprinting as fatiguing and worsening smoke inhalation. Others impose extreme requirements for strength in isolated muscle groups, rather than testing the whole-body strength which firefighting involves. Still others test upper body strength, where men typically out-perform women, without measuring stamina and agility, which are also necessary for and where women often outscore men.”

“Among respondents to our departmental survey, the average pass rate for women on the CPAT [a standardized physical test] was 68.0%, substantially higher than the 49.0% rate in departments using other tests… ”

“A final factor influencing pass rates is the circumstances under which tests are administered. Our interviews produced numerous stories about tests conducted in ways that assist men to succeed and set women up to fail. Examples include timed trials in which women were required to drag wet hoses over wet pavement while men dragged dry hoses over dry pavement; pre-test training in which men were given performance tips and women were not provided the same information; men tested with properly-fitting clothing and equipment while women struggled with ill-fitting gear; and men tested in front of peers who cheer them on while women were tested in silence.”

Pecunium
9 years ago

zhinxy: Did you do have Firefighting/Damage Control as a rate?

zhinxy
9 years ago

Pecunium, No, i wasn’t a DC, but I was an Electrician’s Mate in a small Engineering Dept, so I had DC duties. (We mix it up a LOT in the Guard, just because of our low numbers. )

BoggiDWurms
BoggiDWurms
9 years ago

God/Vishnu/Allah/Mr. Joe/Nobody gave us pandas to compensate for zir creating MRAs.

Cloudiah
Cloudiah
9 years ago

@David I don’t know about that. I once had a dream in which I was in a bad car accident, and the EMTs were all pandas. They did a great job of patching me up and taking me to the hospital. And they let me pet their soft, soft fur. But in another dream, a giant grasshopper was trying to do my laundry, and he did a terrible job and shrunk all my clothes. So I’m going to go with the mammals.

Pecunium
9 years ago

zhinxy: I know all about how cross training works. You were a coastie? I had thought you were a squid, and so I was going to ask where your A school was, had you been a DC Mate, because I spent some time on Naval Station Treasure Island (the nastiest Galley/Mess Hall I have ever be obliged to use. The only thing which could have made the coffee worse was using water from a bilge. As it was I think they use water from the Bay every other day, and just topped off with fresh. Only place I have ever had everything be bad, even the potatoes).

zhinxy
9 years ago

Ugh!!!!! Luckily, I avoided that. Yorktown VA is where little puddle jumpers become EM’s and DCs both.

zhinxy
9 years ago

But my fire training WAS on a Navy base, in Newport News. We had the remains of the Forrestal rotting there, which was way apt.

Sharculese
9 years ago

lol. pecunium and zhinxy once again prove that when two us military persons (excluding phs) get together, they begin speaking a language only tangentially related to english 😛

Valerie
Valerie
9 years ago

yep, we should stick with nepotism, white dudes always do the best job. President Bush didn’t get anyone killed while he was in office. He didn’t fuck up the Hurricane Katrina rescue effort or just completely ignore it.
yep, white dudes never fail.

Pecunium
9 years ago

Sharculese: Was it that gibbery? Truth be told I don’t know as I can tell anymore, esp. as I speak several dialects of military (Two of Army as well as Navy, Marine, and some Zoomie)

Shadow
Shadow
9 years ago

@CassandraSays

That’s cause goons are talentless hacks that are just lucky that they know how to throw a few blows… unless they’re on your team, in which case they are players with heart that are there to protect your stars and get your team riled up.

Which is why I can look condescending askance at Tie Domi, and have nothing but love for PJ Stock

Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

Valerie, that’s so unfair. President Bush is just one white guy, how can we possibly judge them all by…

I see what you did there.

🙂

zhinxy
9 years ago

Hah, that was bad? I only did four years, so I definitely must bow to Pecunium’s militarese, but that all seemed pretty straightforward to me. :p

thebewilderness
thebewilderness
9 years ago

“affirmative employment policies result in women and other social groups being employed despite their incompetence.”

Sort of like patronage for the rest of us, eh?

In my experience as a training officer the women and minorities rarely failed to qualify because they rarely applied if they were not up to the job. The white males were the ones who most often failed to qualify because they thought being a white male was all it took.

katz
9 years ago

Cloudiah: Compelling evidence. I’ll keep an eye on those grasshoppers.

Quackers
Quackers
9 years ago

It’s kinda funny and pathetic how when men do better than women in something physical or sport related all the MRAs and generally sexist dudes think it’s some glorious win for Team Man, or that it reflects their own individual abilities. How many of them can successfully put out a fire? how many of them can flawlessly complete a motocross course? I’d wager not many.

And to even further their unreasonable, biased views…when you point out that statistically that violent, sadistic criminals are men, the majority of rapists are men, that most of the time it’s men who start wars, that Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Saddam, etc were men, George W Bush was a man….oh no suddenly it’s all about men as INDIVIDUALS. Suddenly that’s misaaaaandry!

Hey morons? you don’t get to take credit for the great things men have done just because you have a cock. Unless you’ve done something great, you’re just another schlub. And if you’re so keen on believing that you’re represented by the men at the top, if you want to be logically consistent, then you better equally represent yourself by the men at the bottom too…you future Ed Gein you 😉

KathleenB
KathleenB
9 years ago

Shadow: Even die-hard Wings fans gave Probert the side eye when he played for us – he really, really seemed to enjoy kicking the shit out of people, to a point where is was more than a little disturbing.