Sometimes it’s worth reminding ourselves that despite all the noise they make online, the Men’s Rights movement has basically no presence in the real world. The picture above is an actual photo of a men’s rights symposium at Montana State University. Here’s how the local NBC affiliate described what went down – or, more accurately, what didn’t go down:
The MSU chapter of the National Coalition for Men organized a symposium to raise awareness of problems in men’s lives.
The group geared the event towards fraternity students at the college and invited speakers to talk about things like men’s rights when it comes to sexual misconduct investigations on-campus.
No one showed up to the event but organizers say the lack of attendance is not due to a lack of interest.
You just keep telling yourself that.
By nobody they mean not significant numbers this should be obvious. Anyway I find it disgusting that you dragged a DV shelter to court, why didn’t you use your time and effort to start a charity to raise the funds for it then give it to them on the condition that they use it for men? You could have had dad/son events or something. But no you had to sue them. You should know that dv and women services struggle to survive and are constantly trying to get funding yet you went ahead and did that, very low.
from the ABC article you linked:
Great. So very few men are seeking help in the first place, but lets sue services that women need desperately rather than build support networks and build men’s DV shelters. Which would probably make more men a hell of a lot more comfortable coming forward too since they’d have a place that is totally their own.
There are no words marc, you’re an asshole. Plain and simple.
Hey Marc is back! XD
One thing you should know about Marc: he doesn’t actually believe, nor care about a single thing he asserts xD
Way to go! Just keep changing the subject. Feminist style.
We can change the subject MRA style if you want 😀 Or Marc style xD
“You sued it, which probably took a lot of money from it. How much money did it lose?”
Nothing, because they were represented pro bono. And if they were excluding women, and women sued, would you be asking that same question? I doubt it.
“why didn’t you work to build a shelter for men instead? how many victims were screwed over by that now?”
I explained why. There are already over 100 state-funded shelters in CA, and so building one shelter here and one there wouldn’t cover the geographic spread, we need to get the existing state-funded shelters to stop discriminating. Again, if the state-funded shelters were refusing to help women, and women sued, I doubt you would ask “why don’t you build your own shelters.”
“Feminists saw women getting beaten up by their husbands. They attempted to solve the problem by creating shelters for abused women to go to for protection. This is a big enough problem that the CDC, NIJ and WHO recognize it as a problem. Ever think that that’s why they get state funding? also prove to me that men pay more taxes?”
Of course that’s why they get state funding. So what? That doesn’t make discrimination ok. Men make 92% of occupational deaths but that doesn’t make it ok to discriminate against females who are hurt on the job does it?
“More women die than men because of domestic violence:” http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/tables/intimatestab.cfm
That’s right, and that makes it ok to discriminate against male victims? And according to the CDC, about 1/4 of victims who die by DV are men. Plus, deaths are only a small portion of DV. The biggest victims are children who witness it between their parents. And according to the latest CDC study, “More than 1 in 3 women (35.6%) and more than 1 in 4 men (28.5%) in the United States have experienced rape, physical violence, and/or stalking by an intimate partner in their lifetime.” See executive summary at http://www.cdc.gov/ViolencePrevention/pdf/NISVS_Report2010-a.pdf
Females are victim to IPV more than men”
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/intimate/victims.cfm
First, it’s irrelevant b/c it doesn’t justify discrimination. Second, it’s not even true. You’re citing data from the Department of Justice, a crime agency that does crime surveys using “crime” based language. That always biases the results b/c both sexes are less likely to consider it a crime when it’s female-on-male. The CDC study leaves out “crime” language and it comes out about equal in frequency. virtually all independent empirical survey data shows women initiate domestic violence at least as often as men in heterosexual relationships and men suffer one-third of physical injuries. Almost 300 of these studies, which use various methodologies, are summarized by Professor Martin Fiebert at http://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm
For example, a major study funded by the Centers for Disease Control recently examined heterosexual relationships throughout the U.S. and found: “Almost 24% of all relationships had some violence, and half (49.7%) of those were reciprocally violent. In neciprocally violent relationships, women were the perpetrators in more than 70% of the caseonrs.” http://www.ajph.org/cgi/content/abstract/97/5/941
The study also found: “More women than men (25% versus 11%) were responsible. In fact, 71 percent of the instigators in nonreciprocal partner violence were women.” As for injuries, the study found: “[W]hile injury was more likely when violence was perpetrated by men, in relationships with reciprocal violence it was the men who were injured more often (25% of the time) than were women (20% of the time).” http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/42/15/31-a
A recent 32-nation study by the University of New Hampshire found women are as violent and controlling as men in relationships worldwide. http://www.unh.edu/news/cj_nr/2006/may/em_060519male.cfm?type=n http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/ID41E2.pdf
“I have plenty more links. But lets go with the assumption that DV is equal and there are as many male victims and they need services. Fine. No one is against that. But do MRAs try to build their own? do they lobby the government for funding? do they set up fundraisers or donations?”
I have answered that over and over. In some places they do where that would work best, like they did in Yreka, CA, or in Amsterdam and Belgium where they got state-funded DV shelters. But in CA, where there was over 100 state-funded shelters already existing, it’s best to get them to stop discriminating. Again, if they were excluding women, and women sued, you would not criticize them for suing, or say, “build your own shelters.”
“Women probably ended up going back to their abusers because you choose to sue and take money from women’s shelters rather than get your own built.”
What a load of garbage. What evidence do you have of that?
“I have never come across an MRA who is not a misogynistic asshole.”
If that’s true, it’s probably because you don’t work with MRAs, instead you criticize and attack and argue on the internet rather than organize with them.
“Also I read that the shelter you sued DID offer a hotel voucher.”
No, they did not.
When they protect the name of the accuser but not the name of the accused
Having your name be public record is actually part of protecting the accused. Having secret trials and that you can be accused and nobody has any idea why, is seriously problematic. : I’d rather people KNOW that I was arrested and why I was, rather than just disappearing in handcuffs and nobody able to ask about what happened to me. Also there is no ACCUSER in a trial, there’s a complainant, the ACCUSER is the state/crown.
Um… NCFM is the same site/person who did this:
http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/ncfm-asks-the-u-n-to-end-discrimination-against-men/
Right? xD
The one where the most important issues that face men on a global scale aren’t issues in India (that you even mentioned), child soldiers, boys being raped as a war crime, homelessness, disability, depression, suicide, etc but getting your own holiday, having the government regulate dating, false rape accusations (as usual), getting rid of sexual harassment laws in the workplace…
That’s the NCFM you’re holding up right? xD
“We can change the subject MRA style if you want Or Marc style xD”
No you can’t, because I’m not changing the subject. I’m answering exactly what you feminists say, even when you change the subject again and again.
If that’s true, it’s probably because you don’t work with MRAs, instead you criticize and attack and argue on the internet rather than organize with them.
I actually work in this field. Where are the MRAs I should organize with? What MRA shelters should I be working with? So far the only MRAs I’ve met are the ones who criticize, attack and argue on the internet. xD
No you can’t, because I’m not changing the subject. I’m answering exactly what you feminists say, even when you change the subject again and again.
You’re not? xD
Where did you go btw Marc? XD Last time you were here you claimed you weren’t an MRA. Now you seem to be a hardcore believer.
Is this an actual change in philosophy, or is this kinda like when you used to toss out things you didn’t believe to stir the pot? xD
“Having your name be public record is actually part of protecting the accused.”
Oh I see. It sure protected the Duke guys didn’t it? Not to mention so many other men falsely accused. No, it doesn’t protect them at all.
“Having secret trials and that you can be accused and nobody has any idea why, is seriously problematic”
Protecting the names doesn’t require a “secret trial.” They protect the names of minors, for instance, without having “secret trials.” They protect the names of the accusers without having “secret trials.” They can do the same with the accused.
“www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/ncfm-asks-the-u-n-to-end-discrimination-against-men/
Right? xD
Yes, that’s NCFM. And what’s wrong with it?
“The one where the most important issues that face men on a global scale aren’t issues in India (that you even mentioned), child soldiers, boys being raped as a war crime, homelessness, disability, depression, suicide, etc but getting your own holiday, having the government regulate dating, false rape accusations (as usual), getting rid of sexual harassment laws in the workplace…”
All of those issues are issues affecting men all over, including India. They vary somewhat but overall they’re the same. We address many of them, but we focus on areas where men are discriminated against. That even includes all those issues because they involve men’s health, which is very neglected at the federal level. As our isssues pages explain.
“That’s the NCFM you’re holding up right? xD”
Yes. Absolutely. Among other groups like Fathers & Families, the groups in Kenya, Fathers4Justice, etc. etc. etc.
David can better handle your stats and misreadings though about the whole “mutual abuse” DV thing, so I’ll let him do that. xD
I’m just amused you’re back, and curious why xD
Wow, tons of attacks coming at me all at once! Love it!
“Where are the MRAs I should organize with? What MRA shelters should I be working with? So far the only MRAs I’ve met are the ones who criticize, attack and argue on the internet.”
Well, what area are you in? If you’re in L.A., you could join with Men’s Health Network and NCFM members who are attending the DV Council meetings and forming a men’s issues committee at the L.A. County DV Council and the city as well. There are groups all over doing things. You just need to look.
“Where did you go btw Marc? XD Last time you were here you claimed you weren’t an MRA. Now you seem to be a hardcore believer.”
I never claimed I’m not an MRA. What are you talking about? I’ve been an MRA for well over 10 years, since law school at UCLA when I saw my friend denied DV services.
I have looked xD
What attacks? -_o
Do you feel attacked? o:
I never claimed I’m not an MRA. What are you talking about? I’ve been an MRA for well over 10 years, since law school at UCLA when I saw my friend denied DV services.
Okay. xD
So now rather than claiming that everything amuses you, everything makes you feel attacked xD
This is new. Also, this time rather than claiming you are just trying to troll, you’re being honest and hardcore MRA. :3
Are you a different Marc? o:
“So now rather than claiming that everything amuses you, everything makes you feel attacked xD”
Uh, no, Ami. I said I love it when feminists gang up on me and make personal attacks. It’s how they are. It shows they don’t have any more substantive argument. I see it all the time.
“This is new. Also, this time rather than claiming you are just trying to troll, you’re being honest and hardcore MRA.”
If your’e referring to the allegation that I said I’m not an MRA, I have no idea who you’re confusing me with.
Uh, no, Ami. I said I love it when feminists gang up on me and make personal attacks. It’s how they are. It shows they don’t have any more substantive argument. I see it all the time.
What personal attacks? o_O
Good night feminists. Maybe I’ll check again tomorrow if I feel it’s worth it, but at this point your arguments are ad homs, straw man attacks, innuendo, etc.
I see a lot of people making substantive arguments…. -_o
As I said, do you feel attacked? o: