Here’s a little exchange from Reddit Men’s Rights subreddit that shows what exactly we’re up against here. By which I mean: complete dunderheads.
To properly enjoy the exchange below, you need to know that the “Sadly… yes” link leads to a video of Gloria Allred.
Here’s the video of Hillary Clinton Gloria Allred:
Well, hey, they do look sort of similar, if you ignore the name “Gloria Allred” in giant letters at the start, and sort of squint your eyes, and disregard the fact that her voice is not actually that of Hillary Clinton, but of an entirely different woman. Gloria Allred, to be specific. I mean, heck, Hillary Clinton’s only been on the national political scene for, like, twenty years; it’s not as if anyone could be expected to know what she looks or sounds like, or that her name isn’t spelled “Gloria Allred.” And it’s not like Gloria Allred is ever on TV or anything.
But the important thing is, even though Gloria Allred is not Hillary Clinton:
Kragmoor’s point still stands!
KRAGMOOR’S POINT STILL STANDS!!
Sorry, I was busy have my hair power-styled. What did I miss>
Rutee – Nice Ladylike Women wear skirts with their business attire. Because your credibility and likeability are all about whether there’s cloth between your thighs or not.
It doesn’t matter anyway. It’s not like misogynists are willing to listen to uppity women in skirts either.
@Rutee: I suppose to distinguish them from “skirt suits”? But I thought “skirt suits” were called that to distinguish them from suits with pants, so…?
Everything I know about women’s suits I learned from law firm hiring seminars, where we were specifically notified ahead of time which firms would not let female employees wear pants.
“Why do feminists need to worry about winning people over? ”
Because feminists need all the allies they can get. Obviously, there are people out there who are not worth winning or cannot be won over– Spearhead commentors and the sort of dipshits on Youtube making kitchen jokes—no matter what you do, but it would be a more productive use of time and resources if Allred made a video about, I don’t know, the truth about how biased courts are against rape victims, rather than basically giving the middle finger as she does in that video.
Re: skirt suits – It’s frustrating that looking “professional” in a skirt requires you to shave your legs, wear heels and hose, constantly monitor the hose for the huge runs it inevitably gets, and constantly monitor your posture to make sure you don’t sit or move in any indelicate ways while wearing the skirt. It’s a lot more work and inconvenience than just changing the shape of your lower garment.
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…
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*headdesk*
If you had that kind of rule here, where most downtown workers take transit to work and where the weather will regularly reach -20C in January and February, you would essentially be telling women they weren’t allowed to work for you.
Crumbelievable, it really burns my bacon (can’t speak for every woman here) when a dude tell me that feminism need all the allies it can get, so why aren’t we nicer?
You may not be aware of this, but women are told as a group pretty much every day to be nice, make friends, and not alienate people.
Fuck that.
You are dangerously close to mansplainin’ territory.
On the other side of the coin, the office work I usually land for the summer tends to be business-casual, and I love me some business-casual skirts and dresses. I’ll usually wear them more than a lot of my colleagues. But I don’t appreciate when people use that in order to make judgments about my competence or “seriousness.”
Women’s office attire: damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
Crumbelievable – Feminists don’t need all the allies we can get.
We need all the helpful allies we can get.
And if someone needs feminists to be nicey-nice all the time and never do anything upsetting like calling bigotry “bigotry,” then they’re not going to be a helpful ally anyway.
@Polliwog The problem about that is that video games are treated the same as movies. The MPAA’s rating system is not government mandated nor regulated, nor are there legal penalties for allowing underage children into R/NC-17 films. The ESRB ratings serve the exact same purpose: to inform parents and allow them to decide if a game is appropriate for their children.
In fact, it would not surprise me if the ESRB ratings were modeled after the MPAA ratings.
This erroneous view of video game regulation is not limited to Mrs. Clinton, and it’s certainly no reason hate her; many, many politicians espouse the idea that “video games with adult themes ought to be treated like movies!” ignoring the fact that they already are.
Granted. I’m saying that her position was widely misrepresented as “Hillary Clinton wants to BAN ALL VIDEO GAMES” or something equally stupid (heck, the first couple of Google results when I was double-checking the text of her bill had titles like “Hillary Clinton hates video games!” and “Hillary Clinton is so stupid she thinks video games are destroying America!”), when her actual position was “we shouldn’t be letting kids buy ‘adult’ games without parental approval.”
And I’d say they only sort of already are treated like movies – while there may be no official legal penalty for allowing an unaccompanied minor into an R movie, movie theaters collectively (in theory, anyway) don’t allow it, and at least in my experience back in the day, the local Blockbusters and the like wouldn’t rent R movies to minors, either. (I freely admit that this is not my area of expertise and I only have anecdata to go on; perhaps elsewhere renting or selling R movies to minors is common. I honestly wouldn’t know.) A lot of stores selling video games, on the other hand, do sell MA games to minors, and thinking that they shouldn’t isn’t exactly a terrible position. It’s absolutely a position one can disagree with – and there’s also obviously lots of room for reasonable disagreement about whether this should be enforced by the government, something stores self-impose, or another option – but I do believe that a lot of the rage against Hillary’s bill was less because it was a bill worthy of rage and more because it was Hillary’s bill. I get the distinct impression that Hillary Clinton could have proposed a bill in which all Americans are given as much free ice cream as they want at no cost to the taxpayer, and a significant proportion of the populace would be screaming about how ice cream is an un-American plot to destroy us all, somehow, because Hillary.
(Also, to be clear, I have a fair number of political disagreements with Sec. Clinton, and I’m not sure her approach to video games was the best one. I just think it’s silly to paint it as a wildly unreasonable position, or one that could remotely justify the amount of shrieking hatred that came her way ostensibly because of it.)
Yo, there’s room for hard and soft stances in pretty much any movement. Sometimes you need the kind of nuance and sweetness you’re talking about, but sometimes you just need someone to drop some bombshells.
Also, this shouldn’t be news, but privileged allies saying “I think it’d be better if marginalized person X did Y with their time”? Not cool.
I think the nice strategy and the angry strategy work really well together, actually. “You’re probably a feminist already, you believe in equal rights– and you’re not like those asshole misogynists over there, are you?”
My office attire currently includes orange hair and a studded jacket with a back patch that says “Rather Be Feared Than Loved.” I haven’t gotten in trouble yet.
Surely employees work better when they’re wearing something that makes them feel comfortable and confident, right?
Surely employees work better when they’re wearing something that makes them feel comfortable and confident, right?
I’ve always thought so.
i once had one of my female classmates tell me she wished men had an equivalent of the skirt suit to wear in the summer. although given the fact that suit pants are cut like clown pants, that’s not really the issue. i’m way more jealous of the fact that women can get away with a strappy top and something that covers the shoulders in a situation where i need to wear a jacket
my office attire is cotton dockers, a button down shirt, and a tie (because i like ties) but it also includes my converse sneakers that i illustrated with a civilization of owls (there’s science owls, space owls, sports owls, and owls at the beach) because I WILL NOT BE FORCED TO BECOME AN ADULT
My work attire is, essentially, unisex pajamas. With lots and lots of pockets.
There are some perks to working in healthcare.
Sharculese:
Have you got a picture of them? Because that sounds…awesome.
Apropos of owls, I need to learn to make this sweater:
http://textisles.com/2008/11/22/owls/
I don’t think Gloria Allred can be seen as being anything less than a termagant. In another context I can see Clinton being called Allred.
I’m mixed on the presentation issue. I tend to be more mildly spoken than not; because I think it will get me listened to more (doesn’t matter the topic). But the more passionate I am about something (e.g. torture) the less time I am going to spend being all nicey-nice.
I’m also willing to make some pretty black and white statements about issues (e.g., redux, torture) because the differences between those who are against them, and those aren’t are pretty stark.
Given the way people who are opposed to feminism (to say nothing of those who are just plain opposed to women) I can see her point: telling people who are being bigots, that they are being bigots isn’t wrong, and she; given the way the bigots treat her, has nothing to lose by being outspoken.
@Polliwog with regard to the hate directed toward Hillary, I agree that it is completely overblown, and in this case The Family Entertainment Protection Act was co-sponsored by Joe Lieberman, Tim Johnson and Evan Bayh and they didn’t get nearly the level of rage that Hillary did.
I personally just find it tiring because it smacks of the moral panic BS that has popped up ad infinitum in the past with comic books, rock and roll music, motion pictures, bicycles, etc.
As far as the video games versus movies thing, quoting myself to keep thing in one place:
An addendum to that, GameStop, the self proclaimed “world’s largest multichannel video game retailer” has an official policy to not sell MA gamet to those 17 & under. Unfortunately, it then falls on the actual employees to enforce the policy and, as with movie theater employees, they often fail to do so.
hell yes i do. gonna post ’em one at a time so i don’t get stuck in moderation
science owls
http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/1613/owlscience.jpg
sports owls
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/7016/owlsports.jpg
space owls
http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/3276/owlspace.jpg