Here’s a little exchange from Reddit Men’s Rights subreddit that shows what exactly we’re up against here. By which I mean: complete dunderheads.
To properly enjoy the exchange below, you need to know that the “Sadly… yes” link leads to a video of Gloria Allred.
Here’s the video of Hillary Clinton Gloria Allred:
Well, hey, they do look sort of similar, if you ignore the name “Gloria Allred” in giant letters at the start, and sort of squint your eyes, and disregard the fact that her voice is not actually that of Hillary Clinton, but of an entirely different woman. Gloria Allred, to be specific. I mean, heck, Hillary Clinton’s only been on the national political scene for, like, twenty years; it’s not as if anyone could be expected to know what she looks or sounds like, or that her name isn’t spelled “Gloria Allred.” And it’s not like Gloria Allred is ever on TV or anything.
But the important thing is, even though Gloria Allred is not Hillary Clinton:
Kragmoor’s point still stands!
KRAGMOOR’S POINT STILL STANDS!!
Bwahahahha!
Kragmoor, my point still stands, an MRA is always the first to jump on the bandwagon to spew hate and invective at any woman they see.
I totally agree, though. If you say you’re not a feminist, you’re either a bigot or you don’t know what “feminist” means.
(I’m willing to make an exception for people who say “I’m not a feminist, I’m a womanist” and have really thought it through, or similar cases. Not “I’m a feminist, I’m an equalist,” though.)
“Feminism” without a modifier is pretty much just the idea that women are human and women deserve human rights, and yeah, I’m not interested in hearing anything that anyone who disagrees with that has to say.
But Kragmoor didn’t make a point. Kragmoor’s entire input, withering as it is, is ‘I hate her’. If he stands by that, swell, but how is that even remotely relevant to what is actually going on?
I think we can all agree here that there needs to be a warning before pictures like that…something like [TW: May cause you to spit out your lunch while at work]. Too friggin funneh 😀
LOLERS! Well hey, he can always claim to have Prosopagnosia. That way his point can still stand.
So anyway, do they hate Hillary for being a woman, or a feminist, or in a position of power? Never mind. When it comes to MRAs, always answer “all of the above.”
Middle aged women…oh teh horrorz!
We’re all Clinton? Eh, all women could do worse. :p
I’m willing to make an exception for people who say “I’m not a feminist, I’m a womanist” and have really thought it through, or similar cases.
Oh sure, there are lots of completely valid critiques and rejections of “feminism” to be made. MRAs just aren’t making ’em. Most womanists I know aren’t against feminism because feminists are ugly or old, for example…
I remember back during the last round of elections, my boyfriend at the time told me he hated Hillary Clinton.
Me: Oh, why?
Him: She’s a bitch.
Me: Huh?
Him: She wants to ban video games.
Me: ???
Hilary Clinton gets such weird reactions. It’s like the overbearing, controlling wife reputation she got in the 90s carried over to the 2000’s, but these guys are all too young to remember the 90’s, so they’re just pretty sure she’s a bitch because…? The same thing seems to be happening to Michelle Obama. Every time she gets mentioned people flip their shit, but all she’s ever done is tell kids to do their homework and eat their vegetables. That ogre.
I’d actually really love to see Kragmoor’s other examples of women that are secretly Hillary Clinton. I wonder if any men snuck in there.
Poor recovery, Kragmoor. This judge gives you a 4.
So I guess this makes the guy a woman, what with the overburdened rationalization hamster and all.
Perhaps he simply wanted to point out his ignorance and that’s why his point still stands? It must be, Occams Razor and all.
I think there’s also a problem with lack of specificity of terms. There seem to be two feminisms: the political movement and “the radical notion that women are people.” I think you can disavow active political engagement in feminist causes while still trying to eradicate sexism in your own life, and that confusing or conflating the two is a problem. In other words, you’re not a bigot for not showing up to a Slutwalk, but you are a bigot for perpetuating rape culture.
That being said, the gentlemen above are idiots for so many reasons, none of which have to do with the above statement.
@Magnesium, “overbearing wife” is code for “wife who has opinions and independent ambition,” right? I’m not up on the 90s lingo (I turned 10 in 1999).
Holly: I’d say (my brand of) feminism is a slightly stronger claim– biological, non-socially constructed gender differences are relatively minor and irrelevant, and reducing the socially constructed differences between the genders/increasing the freedom of people within each gender is a net good. I can see someone disagreeing with one of those claims and still being a good person, although they’d probably be kinda stupid. 😛
@Viscaria- and pantsuits. Definitely something about pantsuits.
M Dubz – I think the main issue here is that MRAs have taken to using “feminist” as shorthand for “the evilest worstest thing a human being could ever possibly be,” and have more or less forgotten about both other definitions.
Ozy – I can see someone disagreeing with one of those claims and still being a feminist, though. They’d be wrong, but they’d be a feminist.
Magnesium, Hillary Clinton was involved in some pretty “Won’t somebody please think of the children?!” stuff about violence in video games in 2006 or so. I don’t remember the specifics, but that’s where that probably came from.
Er, not the irrational dislike of Hillary Clinton. Just the video games remark.
@Holly- Yeah, absolutely. But their stupid and misogyny is so blindingly painful, sometimes I want to talk about the people who are in the margins, who are generally well meaning but have yet to join the FEMINIST HIVE MIND (Which they should clearly do! We have cupcakes!)
Oh look, sandwich and kitchen jokes on Youtube! What a pleasant surprise.
Crumbelievable – I have a brower plugin (“YouTube Options” on Chrome) that turns off YouTube comments.
Occasionally I’ll think “well, this video is so innocuous that surely no one could have said anything offensive!”, and turn the comments back on for a second, and immediately regret it.
This happened to me yesterday when I was watching videos of dental procedures, of all things. (I’m scheduled to get my wisdom teeth pulled and wanted to see what that’s like.) I saw a video of a woman getting her wisdom teeth extracted, turned on the comments because I was curious about other people sharing their wisdom tooth experiences… and immediately saw people calling the woman a “bitch.”
WHAT THE FUCKING HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU FUCKING PEOPLE. SHE’S SEDATED. HOW CAN SOMEONE WHO IS UNCONSCIOUS BE A… AIEJA(#@( FADSJKFDSAK
This is what YouTube does to me.
It’s like the overbearing, controlling wife reputation she got in the 90s carried over to the 2000′s, but these guys are all too young to remember the 90′s, so they’re just pretty sure she’s a bitch because…?
I think this is accurate, save that I don’t honestly think Hillary had a reputation as “controlling her husband” so much as “not being controlled by her husband.” I’m just old enough to remember the conservatives’ open horror back in ’92 and thereabouts at things like “she doesn’t routinely bake homemade cookies for her husband!” and “her husband thinks her opinions have merit!” The root of the hatred was never really about anything she did – it was about her being quite obviously a competent, successful adult in her own right, rather than focusing all her energy on “proper” First Lady activities like cookie-making and posing prettily in photos.
(Also, I love that Kragmoor’s “still standing” criticism of Hillary Clinton appears to be “but she’s OLD, and sometimes WOMEN agree with her about stuff!” The horror!)
@Viscaria
Admittedly, I was a kid/teen myself in the 90’s, but I do remember how much flack she got for, like, getting involved in stuff and having opinions. I remember bumper stickers that said that she was the actual president (I think they said “I don’t like the president or her husband” or something along those lines). I also vaguely remember her being compared to Lady MacBeth on more than one occasion. She didn’t really fit the whole pretty quiet first lady who reads to school children role that people seemed to want or something.
Yeah, you know who I hate? Casey Kasem. http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/02/16/426850/democratic-women-boycott-issas-contraception-hearing-for-preventing-women-from-testifying/
My Point Still Stands, dammit. 🙂
It makes me exceptionally mad that people grump so much on First Ladies like Hillary Clinton and Michelle Obama. Most people tend to marry other people who are at a similar level of intelligence, and often at a similar level of ambition, simply because most people want a spouse who is intellectually compatible (thank you feminism!). The husbands are brilliant and charismatic, so why is anyone surprised that the women themselves are brilliant and charismatic?
…because misogyny. Dangit.
Magnesium, Hillary Clinton was involved in some pretty “Won’t somebody please think of the children?!” stuff about violence in video games in 2006 or so. I don’t remember the specifics, but that’s where that probably came from.
Indeed, except that Clinton’s position was actually…pretty darn reasonable. It basically boiled down to “we should treat video games the same as movies.” The level of hatred for her based on believing that video games that would be rated R or NC-17 if they were movies probably shouldn’t be sold to 10-year-olds (but that their parents could still buy them those games if they so chose) was way, way, way out of proportion, and I honestly think a lot of people who were angry about it at the time didn’t even bother to find out what the bill she proposed said before getting mad – all they needed to know was that it was Hillary’s bill, ergo it must be terrible.