Several days ago, angry-MRA-dude hub A Voice for Men ran a guest post from someone identified only as Phil in Utah entitled “How I became an MRA: Domestic violence advocacy.” After Phil’s post in question drew some criticism from some of the AVfM regulars who didn’t see it as radical enough, site founder and head cheese Paul Elam felt it necessary to take Phil to task for one of the statements he made in the post.
So let’s have a quick quiz. Here are three quotes taken from Phil in Utah’s post. Which of them is the one that drew Elam’s ire?
- “[F]eminists only support the rights of women who agree with them, and have no qualms throwing disagreeing women under the bus.”
- “[T]he idea that women are hurt more than men by being abused is a load of crap.”
- “I still believe that men who brutalize women are the scum of the Earth.”
ANSWER: Did you guess #1? Wrong. While this statement isn’t actually true, Elam didn’t object to it. How about #2? While this statement is also untrue – numerous studies show that women are far more likely to be seriously injured by domestic violence than men – Elam didn’t object to it either. Nope. He objected to statement #3. That is:
I still believe that men who brutalize women are the scum of the Earth.
How could any decent human being possibly object to this? Here’s Elam explanation:
I admit I flinched a little when I read this. Clearly these are words rooted in old world sexist notions about violence; that somehow men who brutalize women are worse than women who brutalize men. It is old programming that tends to swim around in the unconscious even after the first few rounds of red pills.
Now, I should note that Phil didn’t actually say, or imply, that “men who brutalize women are worse than women who brutalize men.” Indeed, he spent most of the essay arguing that DV against men needed to be taken more seriously. If anything, he minimized violence against women, by denying the fact that women are indeed more likely to be seriously injured by their male partners than male partners are to be seriously injured by women.
Evidently, for Elam and others on AVfM, straightforward expressions of enmity against men who brutalize women are a form of “latent misandry.”
But we’re only just getting started here. As it turns out, Elam was less troubled by Phil’s “misandry” than he was by some of the nastier attacks on Phil and other
new MRA’s who are ‘getting it’ but have not had the time or opportunity to fully refine their understanding of the modern zeitgeist.
Indeed, one commenter had even gone so far as to call poor Phil “pussy-footed.” And yet another called him a “mangina/white knight.” This, Elam announced, would not do!
MRA’s name calling and shaming other MRA’s is not constructive. It is petty alpha-gaming … .
In other words, it’s the sort of thing that guys do to try to impress the chicks. And that’s bad.
[A] significant part of the dynamics that hinder progress in the MRM is the innate friction between men which is driven by an undercurrent of sexual competition. Our unfortunate programming is to apply downward pressure on each other in order to vie for sexual selection.
On MRA blogs, this is often described with the scientific term “pussy begging.” Elam continued:
Feminism is an outgrowth of chivalry. It is dependent on male sexual competition to thrive. In short, misandry, feminism, the stinking lot of it, is a human problem rooted in men’s mindless competition for women. We don’t get out of that competition by simply rejecting women or Going Our Own Way. We get out of it by identifying and respectfully challenging the elements of that competition when they prove dysfunctional, as in going after MRA’s for blood any time we imagine they are not 100% on message. This conduct, when distilled down to its essence, is just a tell-tale artifact of pussy-centric masculinity.
So, in other words, MRAs who call other MRAs pussy-begging manginas are themselves … pussy-begging manginas.
Such is MRA logic.
@dsc
i am proud to say that despite being atlanta born and raised i understood all of that
@magpie
i can’t recall. i just remember being pissed of that they pretended racism wasn’t a thing during the depression
@sharculese
that’s interesting, cos usually Daleks = racism. “we are the master race. exterminate all inferior races”
Other Indiana-based verbal tics: We tend to add an “S” to the name of stores that don’t have an s at the end: So Kroger becomes Kroger’s, Meijer is Meijer’s, etc.
We also say “do what?” in place of “excuse me?” which I have been told is a mostly Indiana-based thing. And we put “needs” into sentences, such as “Do you have any clothes that needs washed?”
@Fatman: Is there some sort of club where I can pay a membership to be mugged? *end sarcasm*
First off, people that get mugged DO have support (just like the rest of law abiding citizens). it’s called the police.
Seriously, you as an individual are under no obligation to come to the aid of others. If a house was on fire, you don’t have to go into the fire to try and rescue people. Nor are you under any obligation to put yourself into harms way to protect a stranger.
Also, fire fighters/police are compensated in a few ways for taking on that risk. For one, they actually get paid to stop fires/stop muggers. They also get a higher social status (many seeing them as noble and heroes). When they die in the line of duty they are given a “heroes burial”.
Now, if I am just walking down the street and someone is getting mugged…what compensation do I get for taking on that extra risk?
Personally, I think one should not interfere with the actual crime being committed, but you should notify the authorities as long as doing so does not put you in harms way.
It doesn’t seem very logical to place other people higher than yourself. By getting involved in a crime and placing yourself in danger, you are “saying” that the victim of the crime is more important and has more value than yourself and that they should be saved at the potential cost of your own life.
Lastly, from my POV, it seems that popinjay was trying to say that there is a portion of the “manosphere” that doesn’t hate women…they are just indifferent towards them, they don’t want to work harder than they have to or they refuse to play the “provider” role. They basically want a simple life with few obligations outside of supporting themselves and entertainment.
Basically, the group of men popinjay is talking about is roughly the same as the men in all those “man-child” articles written by people like Kay Hymowitz.
the fuck. why is little lord fauntleroy not banned any more?
Brandon, if you want to be selfish, just be selfish.
@Katz: So the next time there is a fire…I want to hear that you ran into that burning building and saved an entire family…and their cat. Otherwise…you are just selfish.
sophists gonna obfuscate…
Get a life, dude. Seriously, this is pathetic.
Brandon, why so pissed? There are no laws requiring you to get in the middle of anything. Nor is there usually an outbreak of shaming when you don’t.
Getting involved in a mugging isn’t saying that your life is worth less than the person being mugged, its saying that that persopns well being and safety is as important as your own and that you’re willing to divide the risk with them. Also, sometimes just shouting that police are on the way is enough to get these cowards top run. And its entirely possible to shout that from a safe distance.
LMAO, pull the other one. C’mon dude, didn’t you say you were homeless for a while? How you gonna say that with a straight face.
What compensation do you get for taking that risk? You need a cookie for helping someone in a bad situation?
How’s about the satisfaction of knowing that you just made your neighborhood a little safer by getting rid of a singularly nasty individual? Or that helping people builds stronger communities which means you’re more likely to receive aid when you need it?
@Pillow: Who said I was pissed? 🙂
My comment was directed at Fatman because he somehow came to the conclusion that people that hold this attitude are somehow being hostile towards the victim of a crime (in this case getting mugged).
Popinjay’s post was more about being indifferent to the achievements of women as well as reacting to crimes being committed against women no differently than the same crime being committed against a man. Basically, most men walked by male on male crimes…and now the trend is more men walking by male on female crimes.
Popinjay mentioned that sentiment below:
But because of these opinions, a lot of women, especially feminists, tend to assume that men of my generation hate women, or that we’re bitter about women forcing their way into every institution of power, every fountain of wealth without giving a shit about what that might do to society.
Thing is, we’re not. Women want power? Fine, they can have it. If they can enforce the rule of law without us, go fucking crazy, women. If women want the high-paying, 50-hour a week jobs, feel free to take that shit, women. We’ve learnt that we don’t need any of that shit. We’ll be able to find a cute girl who’ll blow us regardless of what you do, and even the guys who can’t can see that the path to pussy isn’t paved with money, it’s paved with panty-dropping ballsiness.
We don’t work hard, not because we hate society, but because society has told us it doesn’t need us. And really, we’re okay with that.
Brandon, why do you care if we think you’re selfish? Why do you feel the need to justify that you’re not? Just do whatever you want to do.
@Shadow: Really? What kind of support were you looking for? Do you really think a social worker is going to walk by and try and save you from getting mugged? No. That role is fulfilled by the police.
I am talking about stopping the crime. Now support services provided to “victims of mugging” is a whole separate issue.
@Pillow: Well I guess we should just cut police and fire’s payroll. Since people are willing to put themselves into dangerous situations for nothing else than the warm, fuzzy feelings it provides. Sorry, I am not going to get stabbed, shot or otherwise hurt to feel those feelings. There are safer, less painful ways to feel all warm and fuzzy (see cuddling, sex, etc…).
Lastly, incentives (e.g cookies) work.
@Katz: Nice try. I guess you wouldn’t run into that burning building after all. I guess you are selfish…just like me.
Nice try at what? Why does it matter to you whether I’m selfish or not? I don’t feel the need to justify myself by convincing myself that other people are just like me.
well, but youre not Brandon, Complete and Total Center of the Universe, so why should you presume to?
@Katz: I am stating my opinion. If you don’t agree, then whatever.
Good Lord, this is duller as dirt and putting my melatonin production into overdrive. Can we go back to the funny accents?
Your opinion on whether or not I would run into a burning building? Doesn’t seem like that’s something you can decide.
Honestly, I wouldn’t run into a burning building because I’ve never seen an actively flaming building IRL in my life. The times I’ve observed buildings that were on fire I knew they were because they were surrounded by fire trucks, and if I’d tried to run into them I would only have pissed off a bunch of fire fighters by complicating a situation they were already handling. So I don’t think that’s a good indication of whether I’m selfish or not.
The odd thing is that you seem to think that what I do validates or invalidates what you do. The rightness or wrongness of your actions is not governed by the actions of a completely different person in a completely different situation.
Uh, Brandon, honey, sweetie, darling?
There are LOTS of reasons why people work 50-hour weeks. The inner need for success. Prestige within the community. Not having much of a life. Being passionate about their job. And, perhaps most commonly, money.
You will notice that “pussy” is not on the list. This is because I feel it is non-optimal to be forced to bribe people with my cunt to go to work in the morning.
Also, I’d argue that fifty-hour weeks are unnecessary and growing more so. Life is short. Spending the majority of it as a retail/food service/cubicle monkey is fucking stupid and a waste of the brief existence we have been given. With the increased efficiency of computers and machines, it should be possible to have the average person work, say, a thirty-hour week and have jobs for everyone and more time for personal meaning, growth, fulfillment, and hot hot sex.*
*Or for the asexuals, demisexuals, and low-libido sorts among us, delicious delicious cake.
FORTY CAKES. THAT’S AS MUCH AS FOUR TENS.
AND THAT’S DELICIOUS.