While Reddit’s reluctant, long-overdue banning of subreddits devoted to sexualized pictures of children drew applause from many Redditors, there has, of course, been a considerable backlash from pedophiles, ephibophiles, and other assorted apologists. ShitRedditSays has already started covering this, and I’ll be doing some posts of my own.
So far the most appalling thing I’ve run across (thanks to ScrappyB for pointing it out in the comments here) comes from the BeatingWomen subreddit — which is, unfortunately, a real thing. Some people, you see, are suggesting that maybe Reddit shouldn’t be hosting a forum devoted to sharing images and videos of women being brutalized, so that Redditors can cackle over their victimization, make rape jokes, and whatever else they do there.
The idea that r/beatingwomen “might be next “ roused one racist, misogynist jailbait enthusiast to post this little manifesto.
He’s not trolling. If you look at his comment history you’ll see he’s completely sincere. (Actually, don’t look at his comment history. It’s horrifying. I’m not going to link to it.)
In case any one is wondering, r/beatingwomen is the subreddit that r/mensrights mod AnnArchist (a guy, despite the name) posted to on several occasions, because he considers r/beatingwomen-style “humor” to be hilarious.
What Manboobz does is a fucking favor to humanity. It exposes the MRM for the vile, hateful filth that they are. It takes real quotes from their major cesspools of gathering and shows everyone who stumbles upon this site what a misogynistic, backwards excuse for a social justice movement they are. No fabrications, just pure comments and articles straight from the original source and from many different ones too. If if weren’t for Manboobz…well, I probably would never leave my house to be honest.
Sandra I have often felt extreme anger and disgust at the misogynistic quotes David posts, I know how it feels reading them. But this shit needs to be exposed. These are the attitudes and opinions non-feminists or fence sitters think no longer exists in our egalitarian society. They do. And the people that post it need to be mocked for both their bigotry, hypocrisy and complete lack of logic. Violence solves nothing. And fyi, MRAs are just itching for a self proclaimed feminist to threaten them with violence or allude to it. If that’s you, kindly piss off. We want nothing to do with that shit.
Also in regards to the racism discussion…this has been asked before but you really do have to wonder why some people insist on clinging to their “right” to make a racist joke or statement. Why is it so important to them to use a racist slur? Will they just explode if they don’t? how come I and many other people I know never felt the burning need to use the n-word? or make an anti-semitic joke? this says a lot more about the person who insists on saying these things than it does the people saying it’s offensive and hurtful.
Btw,
No it’s not. Unless you believe that ‘exposed’ and ‘visible’ is the same thing.
Exactly, Quackers (on the racism thing, though also on whatever Sandra is on about). The defenders seem to be conflating being able to say bigoted shit (and not being called out on it) with free speech…which, as has been pointed before, is wrong.
Analogy time: If I serve a meal, and the person I give it to doesn’t like it, they’re not threatening my right to cook, because I already exercised it…they’re just expressing their right to express their opinion against it, and to refuse to eat it, too.
Assholes don’t seem to realize that just because they CAN say things, doesn’t mean that they’re entitled to a compliant audience.
RE The discussion about racist jokes…the thing is, why are they necessary? If people want to do that thing where you bond with your friends by teasing/mocking them, there are plenty of ways to do that without invoking racist stereotypes. Try being more creative AND less racist, it’s not that hard!
Sandra, what is it that you want, exactly? If you want this site to go away, clearly that’s not going to happen. If you want violent comments to be allowed, well, the idea that MRAs think that it’s OK to make threats towards people in response to those people saying/doing things they don’t like is one of the things that we mock here, so it would be pretty ridiculous for us to then go oh but if it’s someone we like making the threats and they’re threatening someone we don’t like then that’s OK.
@red_locker
Yep it’s the same with those whiners who are always complaining how supposedly PC society is. Truth is, everyone has the freedom to pretty much say anything they want (look at the internet) but if they’re being racist, sexist, homophobic etc, expect to be called an offensive asshole because of it you know? but that’s really what it’s about, they just want everyone to accept their bullshit with a smile. Not gonna happen.
That’s what I like about this site. No one is trying to censor MRAs, but they are being mocked and regarded with contempt for their misogynistic comments.
Is this really going to be turned into one of their ‘men vs women’ things?! I’m sure the vast majority of men don’t think a reddit for paedophiles to post photos of kids is cool. MRA or not…surely!?
Yeah, I told a friend about the whole multiple pedo threads thing and as anticipated he was just as displeased with the idea as most women are. Is this an extension of the last theory about underage sex workers, where now adult women are supposedly jealous of 8 year olds?
@Joanna –
Another real live Irish person reporting in (let me know if you require hard copies of my birth certificate, passport, or recent proof of address so that you, Grand High Arbiter of Irishness on the Internet, can verify my claim).
While social interaction and humour in Ireland does involve a fair amount of affectionate mockery, that doesn’t actually make ‘lol Jews’ jokes okay, nor does it invalidate any of the many, many reasons your friend might not be totes fine with them, despite appearances.
Have you ever been hanging out with a group of male friends, and had one of them say something stupid and sexist about women? And had the rest of your male friends laugh? And have you ever been kind of annoyed, and mentally rolled your eyes, but sort of laughed along anyway because saying something just isn’t worth the ragging you’d get for being too sensitive/a humourless cow/a hairy feminist/etc. etc.?
Nobody here is suggesting that your friend is actually weeping and rending his garments inside every time anyone makes a “Jew gold” joke – but he doesn’t need to be for it to still be offensive. And if you can’t see why there’s a difference between members of the majority jokingly insulting each other, and members of the majority jokingly insulting a member of a minority (based on their minority status, even), then… I’m not sure there’s anything for you to learn on blogs like this.
Finally, two other things you may also want to consider:
– Ireland as a society is kind of… well, massively racist. The only reason it’s not more prominent is that, as of yet, we still only have a comparatively small non-white population. It just doesn’t crop up as often in the public consciousness. But you may want to take that into account next time you want to use, “Oh, but sure we’re Irish, that’s just the way we do things here!” to defend your right to make ethnic jokes.
– That Jack Dee video you linked back on page 1? With the pikey joke? Yeah, that actually was pretty damn offensive.
What Manboobz does is a fucking favor to humanity. It exposes the MRM for the vile, hateful filth that they are. It takes real quotes from their major cesspools of gathering and shows everyone who stumbles upon this site what a misogynistic, backwards excuse for a social justice movement they are
Quoted for truth.
Everything Kladle said above is super important and especially this:
Also: when women and survivors of violence have explicitly asked you not to use violent language here, and your response is to tell them that they’re misogyny enablers and they should just shut their cakeholes… this is just another boring ol’ attack on women and survivors of violence. Having our stated wishes ignored and our ways of coping denigrated because someone thinks they know what’s good for us is not an unfamiliar feeling for women and survivors, to put it mildly.
Of course misogyny needs to be exposed. It’s taken for granted that women are inferior to/should be subordinate to men. Don’t you hear people say things like “Of course we needed feminism back in the 50s/30s/suffragette era, but we have equality now!” all the time? And then you have to tell them about the wage gap and domestic violence and attacks on abortion and contraception and rape culture and so on and so on?
When you try to explain to some well-meaning dude that yeah, a small but significant minority of men think raping women is A-OK and that joke about the frat party he just told is really, really not helping, and he says, “Oh, nobody really thinks that,” it’s good to have a place to point him. With the added bonus of misogynists showing up in the comments to defend themselves, so you can see them in real time.
Also taunting the MRM is just entertaining.
The problem with the “just a joke” is that it has been used too often to justify or minimize a vile comment. Of course some people, sometimes may be saying offensive things with no intent, but it is a dangerous game.
This topic is complex, because you have to take into account many factors. As some commenters have said, people within a community can make self-deprecating jokes, or you can mock the prejudice. However, I have seen just too many people hiding their real horrible beliefs behind a joke.
Every person has different boundaries, and, as soon as a joke or a comment are offensive for a person, this person has the right to call out the joke and get offended. Yes, different people can find different things offensive. Maybe you can meet some people who enjoy exchanging banter and picking on each other, but that does not make it a-ok for everyone. Making offensive jokes is not a right.
Sandra, you’re being an ass.
The reason that places like this, or Making Light, or The Slacktivist, work as well as they do is that they foster a sense of community. There are social mores, and the group; as a whole, shares, communicates, and enforces them.
If you don’t like that you are free to leave, but to arrogate to yourself; in the smug and arrogant sort of statement you made to Kladle, that you were allowed to talk and Kladle wasn’t, because; just like you, Kladle isn’t the owner of the blog, would be laughable; if you hadn’t been so rude in your choice of words.
Everyone here is a moderator. We tell each other (as this entire conversation has become) what we think is polite behavior here. What you just did, isn’t.
Then again, reading the rest of your comments on this page, I begin to think (against my general inclination) that you aren’t really being honest here, and were trying to pick a fight. I’m not sure why, because what you are saying (that allowing misogynists to dig their own graves so we can fill them in is somehow coddling them) implies a lack of comprehension about how mockery works as to be, again, laughable.
The level of vitriol the manosphere has for Manboobz is all out of proportion to the number of people who post here, or to the number of people who read it. This, more than angry denunciations (or pointless threats) angers them, makes them lose their shit and say the sorts of thing they try to hide with the otiose blatherings of a Fidelbogen, or the pseudo-intellectual rationalisations of an Elam, or the false analogies to evolution of a Heartiste. It leads them to coming here to justify, and defend, “the real meaning,” of things like, “We need to acquit everyone who is ever charged with rape, and then throw their accusers in prison”.
Which doesn’t go well for them. You would make ghettos, where they could stew in their own hate, and (with real justification, not the false sense of outrage they have now), complain that feminists won’t listen to them.
Once again, my comment was out of line and in poor taste.
I apologize to everyone.
Wow, Sandra, way to start. You really should think about shutting thine own cakehole and going elsewhere.
Sandra: Yeah but dontcha think misogyny is already so greatly exposed in your everyday life?
Not at all. I think the problem is no one laughs at it. No one treats it as something which ought to be laughed at. No one is saying the emperor has no clothes.
No man is interested in true equality.
Bullshit. If you really think that why do you come here? Because this place is full of men who are interested in just that. Joint a group of lesbian separatists if that’s what you really think. But don’t assume you have the right to compel others to share your view, much less that you should use your privilege to speak here to tell those who disagree with you that they are hopelessly misguided.
You certainly shouldn’t choose to be foully rude to someone who is explaining the social customs of the locals. We don’t mind debate. Hell, we probably like it too much, e.g He Whom We Don’t Name, DKM, and NWO, all being treated with a modicum of respect, far outside their actual merits.
Why? Because, loathsome as their ideas may be, and wretched as the things they think of their fellow men, and vile as what they would be happy to see happen to women, they are human beings and deserving of the respect which comes of that.
If you can’t do that, you don’t have to come here. If you can, you are more than welcome.
Sorry if I’m repeating what’s been said (on this thread and entire blog ad infinitum) but it never fails to get me how there’s never an MRA outcry when it’s a man accusing all guys of being slobbering violent rapists who can’t control themselves
They don’t care when women do it either, so long as it’s done to victim blame slutty women for their rape.
Minor addendum to previous post: The MRM is very pragmatic about stereotypes that obviously help men. They’ve never complained about, f’rex, men being seen as incapable of housework; they don’t want to do housework. They’ve only ever complained about the negative effects of stereotypes against men, when they do so, not against the actual idea
(which would mean attacking the ‘positive’ part of it as well). They’ll victim blame slutty women as being responsible for provoking men, but they are *incensed* at the idea of women being afraid of men who might rape them.
Regarding Sandra’s posts, I’m actually equally perplexed at the idea of removing violent comments while rape apologia stands. That said,
I don’t want violence perpetrated against anyone. I want these assholes out of civilized society, and I want them to never communicate with the rest of us again, but I quite simply don’t want these people killed or injured (I also don’t want the kids they’ve hurt, or who’s hurt they’ve defended as morally correct, hurt either, but it’s rather late for that).
I’m of a mixed mind on violent rhetoric. I am not a completely peaceable person, and understand the urge to violence. I saw the “I’ll give you an alibi” comment as an attempt at very dark humor.
I’ve (once) crossed Dave’s line on what can be said (I think it was a less overt threat, and a more hostile comment; for all that I put it as a passive hope, not an active desire. I was pretty angry, and the imagery I was tapping into was not pleasant). He has his rules, and that’s fine. It’s his place to set those rules.
But it’s our place to hang out. One of the rules he sets is that it takes something pretty egregious to get banned. It takes something pretty egregious to get put in the corner on a time out.
But it’s our place too. As Katz said, we like each other and part of that is because we share a sense of what’s right. It’s what makes this such a hard place for a misogynists to score points, because we take their arguments apart, and we are, sometimes, stupidly stubborn about it. I recall CrackEmcee, and Toysoldier, running in parallel threads, and the people here not quitting.
It’s hard to wear us down, and there is a vast wealth of talent, skill, experience and some seriously good rhetoric on display here. Woe betide the person (a la Rad) who chooses to come in half baked. Even more pity the soul who has nothing but opinion, and pretends it’s fact; the moreso if they can’t argue.
“I said so, and you can go look it up”, doesn’t fly here, and that’s better treated (for a while) than links to discredited studies.
Those, I think, as much as the mockery, are why the MRM, and the PUA’s, (the more “organised” aspects of misogyny) hate us so.
But they aren’t the real problem. The real problem, the things we talk about as we hoist them on the petards of their words, is the underlying attitudes they are trying to amplify; the ideas they want to return to active memes; that women ought not be allowed to act as if they were fully human, and the equal of men.
That’s still in the culture, and they do us the favor of showing that feminist arguments about what is going on aren’t (purely) reductio ad absurdem.
I am somewhat curious what Sandra would think of NSWATM.
Also, Rutee and kladle are sensible and awesome.
As a man, I was surprised to learn in this thread that I’m not interested in equality. It’s just like that time my dad couldn’t believe that I’d gotten way into Jane Austen.
“This post right here. This post is an honest example of how many men actually feel about women.”
That’s what these guys want you to think. They want to imagine that everyone out there shares their bigotry and delusions.They want to imagine that there are hundreds of millions of men out there just like them who are ready to rise up and commit acts of violence.The reality is that their pathetic revolution will never come because they don’t represent a majority of men at all. Deep down they know this, which is why they label anyone who doesn’t support them a “mangina” or “white knight”.
Crumbelievable is right, and pretending these people aren’t laughable just gives them credence, and make them stronger.
Sandra uses our repeated posts here to assert her claim that we love misogyny…
Sandra repeatedly posted here and is very likely involved in other feminist websites..
Feminist websites talk about misogyny…
Does this mean Sandra is a hypocrite? I’ll let you decide.
(But the answer’s yes.)