While Reddit’s reluctant, long-overdue banning of subreddits devoted to sexualized pictures of children drew applause from many Redditors, there has, of course, been a considerable backlash from pedophiles, ephibophiles, and other assorted apologists. ShitRedditSays has already started covering this, and I’ll be doing some posts of my own.
So far the most appalling thing I’ve run across (thanks to ScrappyB for pointing it out in the comments here) comes from the BeatingWomen subreddit — which is, unfortunately, a real thing. Some people, you see, are suggesting that maybe Reddit shouldn’t be hosting a forum devoted to sharing images and videos of women being brutalized, so that Redditors can cackle over their victimization, make rape jokes, and whatever else they do there.
The idea that r/beatingwomen “might be next “ roused one racist, misogynist jailbait enthusiast to post this little manifesto.
He’s not trolling. If you look at his comment history you’ll see he’s completely sincere. (Actually, don’t look at his comment history. It’s horrifying. I’m not going to link to it.)
In case any one is wondering, r/beatingwomen is the subreddit that r/mensrights mod AnnArchist (a guy, despite the name) posted to on several occasions, because he considers r/beatingwomen-style “humor” to be hilarious.
5 bucks says Sandra is MRAL or an MRA impersonating a feminist *gets popcorn*
Also chill out, its not unusual for people to other people’s remarks about certain people.
Quackers – Nah, the stuff about Judaism was a little too thoughtful. Although I sure wouldn’t try to sell that “but it’s dark humor, it’s a way of coping” to my grandmother.
Sandra – I actually think one of Manboobz’s greatest strengths is that it exposes misogyny, rather than just denouncing it. Making misogynists face up to their own words is, IMO, far more powerful than simply telling them they’re dickheads.
Likewise, when you’re trying to convince non-misogynist but privileged people of just how bad misogyny can get, this blog has a hell of a lot more impact than one that simply says misogyny is horrible.
I’m of two minds about the “be better than our enemies!” versus “oppressed people have the right to be angry” thing, but honestly… I’m not particularly comfortable around violent threats made at anybody. Someone who says “I’ll kill your enemies!” is saying to me “I’m capable of killing over an insult!” and that’s really not a safe feeling for me, it’s not something that makes me feel confident they’ll always restrict it to my enemies.
Oh Holly I’ve seen just how sympathetic the site is to misogynists. They’re debate is welcomed. Open arms ( ).
Quackers. An apt name. Gets Jaffas*
Do you actually read this blog or are you just assuming this? O_o
Their “debate” such as it is, is welcomed in some senses of that word. So we should be welcoming to misogynists? Or else be leveling threats hither and yon?
Sandra – I’d ask you for examples, but I’m wondering if you’re just a really novel troll.
Deleting misogynist comments is not the only way to combat them. Sometimes ripping them to shreds and revealing the illogic and hypocrisy contained within them is a whole lot more illuminating–as well as more satisfying for the people attacked by those comments.
I don’t begrudge any other blog its moderation policy, but you’re way out of line declaring Manboobz a fountain of misogyny just because David has made this a debate/mockery venue rather than a strictly moderated one.
Look I’ve been reading this blog for a long time and trust me that the mood in here is pretty hostile to mras.
@Holly
I think you confused Mandolin’s post as Sandra’s because of the similar gravatars. She could well be an MRA, though I don’t think it’s necessary. Humanity’s full of angry people and shit stirrers.
So we apparently have grandmothers with different kinds of perspectives. I’m not clear on why that makes your experience more valid.
Anyway, your geek social fallacies of sex post was very cool. Ran into it today and tweeted it.
And if there’s need to show credentials, mra’s are really hostile David and his blog.
Anyway, I’m not sure how death or violence threats can help fight the misogyny.
Shadow – Oops, you’re right.
Mandolin – Sorry, I don’t mean much more than that yeah, our grandmothers ARE different, and the tolerance for dark humor clearly varies a lot within the community.
@Sandra
I read this crap here because it would be seriously triggering to read it anywhere else, but I feel like I need to know what’s going on with these folks. If David was doing something simply voyeuristic, I would have run away, but exposing the MRA crap in a way that belittles it in a safe/supportive (sorry to sound so therapeutic) environment is actually helpful for me. Even skipping over to read their shit is okay as long as I have a safe space to jump back to. If it doesn’t work for you, that’s cool, but you’re not everyone. Okay, good night.
I usually use this as my example of the way dark humor works as a coping mechanism. It’s Mel Brooks, as quoted in a US News & World Report article (I actually first saw him making similar statements somewhere else entirely, but these are close enough):
Fair enough. Sorry. 😉
I’ll just trot out my usual point: Is this really the hill you want to die on? Your right to make racist jokes?
Kladle’s Jewish recruiting agency picture is another good example.
And another person fails to make the calculation, “Who do people on this blog like better, kladle or me?”
@Holly Pervocracy
Yeah but dontcha think misogyny is already so greatly exposed in your everyday life? Do you really need a bloke to tell you how much you are despised and then rule that you only post nice words about it? This post right here. This post is an honest example of how many men actually feel about women. You go google “feminism” and what you will find is very many sites devoted to the purported evils of women and feminism. I think that trying to make misogynists face up to their own words is pointless. They have a vested interest in making women feel like a piece of shit – a second class citizen. Ironically that’s how I feel whenever I come here. Elevating women’s status would plunk some men even lower on the totum pole than they already are. No man is interested in true equality. Think about it. The highest man on the totem pole is never going to be disloged. All those below it are in danger of being pegged down a space when we speak about equality and equal opportunity. And down it goes until the middle class man on the pole is terrified of being downstaged by any woman given opportunity. There we have misogyny.
Misogynists aren’t interested in serious debate. You need to be, whether or not the discussion involves angry platitudes of pretend violence. Not some bloke reminding you of how despised you actually are.
“Invariably when i get into arguments with conspiracy nuts one of them will eventually suggest that I am a tool of the Jewish overlords, or some such, and I will make some joke about signing up with the Jew overlords because there are free bagels at the meetings, or something like that.”
This is effectively the toaster joke.
So, really, as a queer Jew, I should go recruit a straight person to get the toaster and then go and sign up with the Jewish overlords so I can acquire the bagels.
The only question now is how to get a nice schmear.
Hopefully I’m not getting to this particular discussion too late, but I’d like to say that as an Asian person, I’ve had the experience of having to call someone out on a racist joke that she made about my race, to me. She was shocked. She had thought that we would be able to laugh at the joke together, because it should be obvious to me that she wasn’t a racist and that the joke was meant in a spirit of fun.
I asked why she thought all that, and she cited examples of two other non-white people we knew who totally made those jokes with her and laughed when she or others made them.
Neither of those people had a personality where you would think they would take shit from anyone, but I think that they were more invested than I was in the friendships they had within the mostly white group. Another time, a bunch of us were having a meeting to discuss what we should dress as for Folsom Street Fair, and a white girl shouted out, “We should go as Asians!” I glanced at one of the women mentioned above, who is also Asian and had known all those people for quite a while. She had a sort of half-laugh coming out of her mouth. I could see how there was no space for her, if she was offended, to take the issue up with her fifteen white friends who thought it was funny.
This was all in San Francisco – not where you’d think to find racism until you actually live there.
Holly Pervocracy made a great list of reasons why a non-white person might choose to make and take jokes about his/her race. But even if the commenter’s friend in question is 100% fine with it, really and truly, I’m also staying out of lurk mode to write this for other people who like to make racist jokes with their friends. You don’t know what’s really going on with them. I think it’s cool for people to just make sure they never tell racist jokes, rather than putting the burden on listeners to speak up if they feel offended. Not telling racist jokes is easier than having to tell all your friends that you don’t want to hear racist jokes, you know?
Sandra, and I’m saying this as mildly as possible, it sounds like this just isn’t a good place for you.
…Also, the “you’re still being silenced and ordered around and told you don’t understand your own actions, but this time by a WOMAN” brand of feminism pisses me the hell off. You don’t help oppressed people by offering to be their new oppressor.
No I am pretty sure most women don’t need a reminder…thats not the purpose of this blog though….
okayyyyyyy *back away from radfem*
No shit, but it makes people feel better to combat it with debate so why not let them? Thats how they cope with such horrible people existing.
By that logic we can’t trust anyone to want equality. Which leaves us with… thunderdome?
Also, I’m not sure that there is such a thing as being 100% fine with sharing racist jokes with one’s friends. Everything about racism is so complex, in theory and in personal experience, that it might never be possible to get there.
I guess if there were actual Oppression Olympics, and everybody in the whole world competed, we could trust that the official Most Oppressed Person could be fighting for equality. Not that zie would get very far since absolutely everyone else on the planet would be working against zir.
You know I really hate saying this and I rarely do but if you don’t like this site then you should leave. Its not going to change anytime soon and you clearly are just offended a site like this exists. This site maybe not for you but others like it here including me. I feel better seeing people react so negatively to this kind of crap, it restores a bit of my faith in humanity.
Obviously you don’t feel better to see this kind of thing being smacked down which is fine but you should move on and leave people to cope with it how they want.