While Reddit’s reluctant, long-overdue banning of subreddits devoted to sexualized pictures of children drew applause from many Redditors, there has, of course, been a considerable backlash from pedophiles, ephibophiles, and other assorted apologists. ShitRedditSays has already started covering this, and I’ll be doing some posts of my own.
So far the most appalling thing I’ve run across (thanks to ScrappyB for pointing it out in the comments here) comes from the BeatingWomen subreddit — which is, unfortunately, a real thing. Some people, you see, are suggesting that maybe Reddit shouldn’t be hosting a forum devoted to sharing images and videos of women being brutalized, so that Redditors can cackle over their victimization, make rape jokes, and whatever else they do there.
The idea that r/beatingwomen “might be next “ roused one racist, misogynist jailbait enthusiast to post this little manifesto.
He’s not trolling. If you look at his comment history you’ll see he’s completely sincere. (Actually, don’t look at his comment history. It’s horrifying. I’m not going to link to it.)
In case any one is wondering, r/beatingwomen is the subreddit that r/mensrights mod AnnArchist (a guy, despite the name) posted to on several occasions, because he considers r/beatingwomen-style “humor” to be hilarious.
@Holly: Yeah, that was pretty much my sense too.
I don’t think you realize that its exactly like that in America. People make racist jokes all the time without getting much hassle even to their friends of that race. But just because its accepted by others doesn’t make it ok at all.
People call out each other in feminist spaces to show that no, its not fucking ok. They don’t call people out because their cultures are so against racist joking but because its fucking wrong and hurtful.
I singled him out because he is awesome I swearrrrrr not because he is jewishhhh
“I singled him out because he is awesome I swearrrrrr not because he is jewishhhh”
Nope. Couldn’t care less if he were Jewish or not. I’d probably call him something else if he wasn’t. I should also mention the pet name was his idea. But because I use it I’m being really horrible. I’ll go burn in a fire now.
@Glass I’d be happy to provide you with an alibi or even accompany you on said mission. I had exactly the same emotional response as you ie., I would like to get my hands on those (trying to think of a word insulting enough to describe these sleazy slimy things – got it) MEN.
I don’t get it David. You have no trouble posting this fucking heinous offensive soul destroying shit, but baulk at an honest response to said fucking heinous offensive soul destroying shit.
If you singled your friend out for being awesome, why aren’t you calling him “Honey Awesome?”
(Okay, not catchy, but I hope you sorta see what I’m saying.)
Anyway, the “Irish people bond by insulting each other” thing doesn’t hold water for me because:
1. Your friend is not Irish and you are not Jewish.
2. Multiple other Irish people have stepped up to say that isn’t their experience of Irish culture.
and
3. Even if that is what you grew up doing, it’s a shitty thing to do. Like Jumbofish says. I’ve had to unlearn slurs that were part of the culture I grew up in. I’ve had to unlearn the habit of calling people out for their differences or thinking that every difference was funny or gross. These things are part of American culture (and sometimes, and I almost hesitate to say this because of the way it gets handed back to me by anti-Semites, sometimes part of Jewish culture too) but that doesn’t mean they’re things I shouldn’t question.
“Your friend is not Irish and you are not Jewish.”
My friend is born and raised in Ireland and is half Irish.
“Multiple other Irish people have stepped up to say that isn’t their experience of Irish culture.”
I must have missed them. Links?
I can only imagine, mainly because there aren’t a lot of white racist jokes that I’ve heard, that having a racist joke told to you is like when my male friends (not close friends, but swordfighting friends) tell sexists jokes around me.
It’s this choice of when to get angry at them or just roll my eyes, because making a deal out means that the other guys will jump to the defense of the joke and I have to argue against multiple people at once. (After breaking up with my abusive boyfriend, who is still in the group, some of the member already think I’m a “sourpuss,” but not the majority and not the leaders) These jokes usually only happen when not as many female members show up. Many of the guys didn’t really get why we formed our own ladies’ guild to promote female participation, but they’ve never been a girl surrounded by a bunch of guys with swords.
Luckily, when we did have a guy who attempted to sexually assault one of the female members he was asked to leave promptly, but it was found out later he actually asked three of the women in the group if they did topless or nude modeling.
I posted this before, but for those who suspect that these subreddits aren’t merely “troll” forums but have some serious shit going down, in the Something Awful thread about shutting down the pedophile subreddits, somebody said:
“That was the mod of r/beatingwomen. He was caught by border officials trying to get to Mexico in connection with a few disappearances of women in Texas a few months back.”
This is the link to r/beatingwomen (huge fucking trigger warning, obviously) where they talk about it: http://redd.it/n67wy
jumbofish and Holly’s last comments really summed the issue up nicely. I say this as a pretty WASP-y person who has been called out on my shit before — started out defensive, but now I am grateful that people took the trouble to do that. On that post that crumbelievable posted, couldn’t help but notice that our little friend Explore Nature was there: “Jewish way of thinking is not nature friendly, Jewish modernism is doing all the damages for the society. Feminism, liberalism, post modernism….etc are Jewish ideologies. They are decreasing the lifetime of human kind, so there is nothing wrong with anti Jewish ideologies.” It’s okay to be anti-Semitic, because they’ve TOTALLY earned it. /SARCASM.
He posts it to condemn it, not because he doesn’t have a problem with it.
We don’t do violent threats, fantasizing, etc. here, no matter how “honest” your reaction is. Regardless of the target, violence is unacceptable. If you don’t like that policy, you don’t have to post. The end.
Joanna – There is a way for you to be not horrible and not hated and not have everyone jumping down your throat being mean.
That way is: “I’m sorry. Maybe those jokes really are offensive toward my friend in ways I didn’t think about. I’ll stop making them and treat him like I treat any other friend.”
If you’re willing to do that, or at least seriously consider it, I guarantee you we’re not going to still think you’re horrible just because we all spontaneously decided to hate Joanna today. It’s the things you said that we’re attacking, not you.
@Joanna
Australian humour, coming as it does from a nation taken by Irish convicts, is pretty similar to Irish humour. Yes, there is a lot of mocking between friends. Yes, this is used to show affection. No, that doesn’t mean uncreative racist mocking is a good idea, or funny, or clever. Make fun of them for things they do as Real People, rather than just as Jews or whatever.
Beyond that:
Yeah, other friends who may well make the same fucking hilarious “Jew gold” jokes you do.
BTW, Foxie is saved! http://noseriouslywhatabouttehmenz.wordpress.com/2012/02/13/help-save-this-cat/
Sandra, I post the heinous shit to expose it. Obviously I understand that people get angry, upset, sometimes sickened by it. I get angry, upset, sickened by it. But I don’t think that violence towards the people saying this shit is the answer, and I don’t want people advocating that sort of thing on my blog, even if it’s just rhetoric.
Yay Foxie!
I do think there are ways to do “racist” humor that is really humor at the expense of the racists, not people of the race that are ostensibly the target.
Invariably when i get into arguments with conspiracy nuts one of them will eventually suggest that I am a tool of the Jewish overlords, or some such, and I will make some joke about signing up with the Jew overlords because there are free bagels at the meetings, or something like that.
Obviously that’s directed at the anti-Semitic idiots, not at Jews, and associating Jews with delicious, delicious bagels isn’t exactly a heinous, hurtful stereotype.
The bagels should not be consumed without cream cheese and lox, however. To do anything else is pure sacrilege (not really).
I’d like to book passage on the first spaceship off this rock. It’s things like r/beatingwomen that destroy little bits of my soul each time they pop up.
David – If you said apropos of nothing, “Hey Holly, invite me to your Jew overlord meetings, I hear there are free bagels,” that would be every kind of uncomfortable. Even though bagels are not very offensive.
The fact that you’re explicitly directing a parody of anti-Semitism at anti-Semites and not Jews is the really important part there. That’s the part that makes me feel confident that it is a parody rather than just a jocular repetition of their beliefs.
Also, yelling “hey bagel-boy” at a Jewish guy is a bit problematic, unless the guy in question is literally a boy selling bagels.
Though, “hey, I’d like to buy a bagel” would be a lot more polite.
@ kladle.
“We don’t do violent threats, fantasizing, etc. here, no matter how “honest” your reaction is. Regardless of the target, violence is unacceptable. If you don’t like that policy, you don’t have to post. The end.”
No, that’s right. What David does do on this site is duplicate, replicate and give more bandwidth to evil violent misogynist shit posted by the menz all over the webz and then ask the laydeeeees for a nice civilised response (no violent words pleeeeze) and puhleeeese laydeees bring a plate.
Oh and unless you are a moderator or owner of this blog, kindly shut your cakehole as I was talking to David, not you dickhead.
Holly says:
Just a different Jew’s experience–this is more or less my experience, too, that people joke about neuroses and quirky families and so on.
Except for meta-jokes, there are plenty of those, jokes that are mocking the idea that Jews control the media or drink the blood of Christian babies or secretly have horns.
However, my experience really differs re: holocaust jokes–no set-up/punchline-type things, nothing trivializing, but dark humor definitely, especially if you’re in a setting where you can’t avoid talking about it. I’d actually say that using black humor as a method for coping with trauma and tragedy is a common thread in the Jewish subcultures (mostly secular, fwiw) that I’ve been in.
I do actually sometimes consciously modify the way I talk about being a Jew when I’m hanging out with people who aren’t, because if you make a snarky joke making fun of Jewish stereotypes, the meta-text isn’t necessarily obvious to non-Jews. I don’t think that’s particularly different from the way I handle in-group/out-group jokes about feminism, though, where it would make more sense for me to say “well, of course no one cares what he thinks, he’s a mangina” about my husband in a feminist group, because of course it’s obvious that I’m being sarcastic and mangina is a stupid concept, when I would probably avoid saying that in a random group of people.
@sandra
wutttt O_o
Sandra, unless you are a moderator or owner of this blog, kindly stop telling people what to say here and how it should be moderated.
Or you could at least read this blog and see just how sympathetic it is to the misogynists and just how nice we are to them.