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creepy hypocrisy men who should not ever be with women ever misandry misogyny MRA pedophiles oh sorry ephebophiles racism rape rapey reddit threats violence against men/women

Reddit's Post-Pedogeddon Backlash, Part One: r/beatingwomen weighs in on the pedo ban

While Reddit’s reluctant, long-overdue banning of subreddits devoted to sexualized pictures of children drew applause from many Redditors, there has, of course, been a considerable backlash from pedophiles, ephibophiles, and other assorted apologists. ShitRedditSays has already started covering this, and I’ll be doing some posts of my own.

So far the most appalling thing I’ve run across (thanks to ScrappyB for pointing it out in the comments here) comes from the BeatingWomen subreddit — which is, unfortunately, a real thing. Some people, you see, are suggesting that maybe Reddit shouldn’t be hosting a forum devoted to sharing images and videos of women being brutalized, so that Redditors can cackle over their victimization, make rape jokes, and whatever else they do there.

The idea that r/beatingwomen “might be next “ roused one racist, misogynist jailbait enthusiast to post this little manifesto.

He’s not trolling. If you look at his comment history you’ll see he’s completely sincere. (Actually, don’t look at his comment history. It’s horrifying. I’m not going to link to it.)

In case any one is wondering, r/beatingwomen is the subreddit that r/mensrights mod AnnArchist (a guy, despite the name) posted to on several occasions, because he considers r/beatingwomen-style “humor” to be hilarious.

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Crumbelievable
Crumbelievable
8 years ago

@Holly: Yeah, that was pretty much my sense too.

jumbofish
8 years ago

I don’t think you realize that its exactly like that in America. People make racist jokes all the time without getting much hassle even to their friends of that race. But just because its accepted by others doesn’t make it ok at all.

People call out each other in feminist spaces to show that no, its not fucking ok. They don’t call people out because their cultures are so against racist joking but because its fucking wrong and hurtful.

jumbofish
8 years ago

@Holly. Lol. It’s a pun. Honey Jew, like sweet Jew. It’s kind of a pet name. I single him out cos he’s awesome.

I singled him out because he is awesome I swearrrrrr not because he is jewishhhh

Joanna
8 years ago

“I singled him out because he is awesome I swearrrrrr not because he is jewishhhh”

Nope. Couldn’t care less if he were Jewish or not. I’d probably call him something else if he wasn’t. I should also mention the pet name was his idea. But because I use it I’m being really horrible. I’ll go burn in a fire now.

Sandra
Sandra
8 years ago

@Glass I’d be happy to provide you with an alibi or even accompany you on said mission. I had exactly the same emotional response as you ie., I would like to get my hands on those (trying to think of a word insulting enough to describe these sleazy slimy things – got it) MEN.

I don’t get it David. You have no trouble posting this fucking heinous offensive soul destroying shit, but baulk at an honest response to said fucking heinous offensive soul destroying shit.

Holly Pervocracy
8 years ago

If you singled your friend out for being awesome, why aren’t you calling him “Honey Awesome?”

(Okay, not catchy, but I hope you sorta see what I’m saying.)

Anyway, the “Irish people bond by insulting each other” thing doesn’t hold water for me because:
1. Your friend is not Irish and you are not Jewish.

2. Multiple other Irish people have stepped up to say that isn’t their experience of Irish culture.

and

3. Even if that is what you grew up doing, it’s a shitty thing to do. Like Jumbofish says. I’ve had to unlearn slurs that were part of the culture I grew up in. I’ve had to unlearn the habit of calling people out for their differences or thinking that every difference was funny or gross. These things are part of American culture (and sometimes, and I almost hesitate to say this because of the way it gets handed back to me by anti-Semites, sometimes part of Jewish culture too) but that doesn’t mean they’re things I shouldn’t question.

Joanna
8 years ago

“Your friend is not Irish and you are not Jewish.”

My friend is born and raised in Ireland and is half Irish.

“Multiple other Irish people have stepped up to say that isn’t their experience of Irish culture.”

I must have missed them. Links?

ersatzmoons
ersatzmoons
8 years ago

I can only imagine, mainly because there aren’t a lot of white racist jokes that I’ve heard, that having a racist joke told to you is like when my male friends (not close friends, but swordfighting friends) tell sexists jokes around me.

It’s this choice of when to get angry at them or just roll my eyes, because making a deal out means that the other guys will jump to the defense of the joke and I have to argue against multiple people at once. (After breaking up with my abusive boyfriend, who is still in the group, some of the member already think I’m a “sourpuss,” but not the majority and not the leaders) These jokes usually only happen when not as many female members show up. Many of the guys didn’t really get why we formed our own ladies’ guild to promote female participation, but they’ve never been a girl surrounded by a bunch of guys with swords.

Luckily, when we did have a guy who attempted to sexually assault one of the female members he was asked to leave promptly, but it was found out later he actually asked three of the women in the group if they did topless or nude modeling.

kladle
kladle
8 years ago

I posted this before, but for those who suspect that these subreddits aren’t merely “troll” forums but have some serious shit going down, in the Something Awful thread about shutting down the pedophile subreddits, somebody said:

“That was the mod of r/beatingwomen. He was caught by border officials trying to get to Mexico in connection with a few disappearances of women in Texas a few months back.”

This is the link to r/beatingwomen (huge fucking trigger warning, obviously) where they talk about it: http://redd.it/n67wy

cloudiah
cloudiah
8 years ago

jumbofish and Holly’s last comments really summed the issue up nicely. I say this as a pretty WASP-y person who has been called out on my shit before — started out defensive, but now I am grateful that people took the trouble to do that. On that post that crumbelievable posted, couldn’t help but notice that our little friend Explore Nature was there: “Jewish way of thinking is not nature friendly, Jewish modernism is doing all the damages for the society. Feminism, liberalism, post modernism….etc are Jewish ideologies. They are decreasing the lifetime of human kind, so there is nothing wrong with anti Jewish ideologies.” It’s okay to be anti-Semitic, because they’ve TOTALLY earned it. /SARCASM.

kladle
kladle
8 years ago

I don’t get it David. You have no trouble posting this fucking heinous offensive soul destroying shit, but baulk at an honest response to said fucking heinous offensive soul destroying shit.

He posts it to condemn it, not because he doesn’t have a problem with it.

We don’t do violent threats, fantasizing, etc. here, no matter how “honest” your reaction is. Regardless of the target, violence is unacceptable. If you don’t like that policy, you don’t have to post. The end.

Holly Pervocracy
8 years ago

Joanna – There is a way for you to be not horrible and not hated and not have everyone jumping down your throat being mean.

That way is: “I’m sorry. Maybe those jokes really are offensive toward my friend in ways I didn’t think about. I’ll stop making them and treat him like I treat any other friend.”

If you’re willing to do that, or at least seriously consider it, I guarantee you we’re not going to still think you’re horrible just because we all spontaneously decided to hate Joanna today. It’s the things you said that we’re attacking, not you.

lowquacks
lowquacks
8 years ago

@Joanna

Australian humour, coming as it does from a nation taken by Irish convicts, is pretty similar to Irish humour. Yes, there is a lot of mocking between friends. Yes, this is used to show affection. No, that doesn’t mean uncreative racist mocking is a good idea, or funny, or clever. Make fun of them for things they do as Real People, rather than just as Jews or whatever.

Beyond that:

Seriously? I don’t think he’d still be talking to me if he thought I was an asshole. He has plenty of other friends too.

Yeah, other friends who may well make the same fucking hilarious “Jew gold” jokes you do.

Bostonian
8 years ago

The bagels should not be consumed without cream cheese and lox, however. To do anything else is pure sacrilege (not really).

Lady Zombie
Lady Zombie
8 years ago

I’d like to book passage on the first spaceship off this rock. It’s things like r/beatingwomen that destroy little bits of my soul each time they pop up.

Holly Pervocracy
8 years ago

David – If you said apropos of nothing, “Hey Holly, invite me to your Jew overlord meetings, I hear there are free bagels,” that would be every kind of uncomfortable. Even though bagels are not very offensive.

The fact that you’re explicitly directing a parody of anti-Semitism at anti-Semites and not Jews is the really important part there. That’s the part that makes me feel confident that it is a parody rather than just a jocular repetition of their beliefs.

Sandra
Sandra
8 years ago

@ kladle.

“We don’t do violent threats, fantasizing, etc. here, no matter how “honest” your reaction is. Regardless of the target, violence is unacceptable. If you don’t like that policy, you don’t have to post. The end.”

No, that’s right. What David does do on this site is duplicate, replicate and give more bandwidth to evil violent misogynist shit posted by the menz all over the webz and then ask the laydeeeees for a nice civilised response (no violent words pleeeeze) and puhleeeese laydeees bring a plate.

Oh and unless you are a moderator or owner of this blog, kindly shut your cakehole as I was talking to David, not you dickhead.

Mandolin
8 years ago

Holly says:

Or if we do, it’s a different type. It’s “neurosis and guilt” jokes, but not “big nose” jokes. It’s “our religious rituals are kinda goofy” jokes, but not “hoarding the gentiles’ money” jokes. It’s “big quirky families” jokes, but not “we killed Jesus” jokes. And it is fucking never Holocaust jokes.

Just a different Jew’s experience–this is more or less my experience, too, that people joke about neuroses and quirky families and so on.

Except for meta-jokes, there are plenty of those, jokes that are mocking the idea that Jews control the media or drink the blood of Christian babies or secretly have horns.

However, my experience really differs re: holocaust jokes–no set-up/punchline-type things, nothing trivializing, but dark humor definitely, especially if you’re in a setting where you can’t avoid talking about it. I’d actually say that using black humor as a method for coping with trauma and tragedy is a common thread in the Jewish subcultures (mostly secular, fwiw) that I’ve been in.

I do actually sometimes consciously modify the way I talk about being a Jew when I’m hanging out with people who aren’t, because if you make a snarky joke making fun of Jewish stereotypes, the meta-text isn’t necessarily obvious to non-Jews. I don’t think that’s particularly different from the way I handle in-group/out-group jokes about feminism, though, where it would make more sense for me to say “well, of course no one cares what he thinks, he’s a mangina” about my husband in a feminist group, because of course it’s obvious that I’m being sarcastic and mangina is a stupid concept, when I would probably avoid saying that in a random group of people.

jumbofish
8 years ago

@sandra

wutttt O_o

Holly Pervocracy
8 years ago

Sandra, unless you are a moderator or owner of this blog, kindly stop telling people what to say here and how it should be moderated.

Or you could at least read this blog and see just how sympathetic it is to the misogynists and just how nice we are to them.

Quackers
Quackers
8 years ago

5 bucks says Sandra is MRAL or an MRA impersonating a feminist *gets popcorn*

jumbofish
8 years ago

Also chill out, its not unusual for people to other people’s remarks about certain people.

Holly Pervocracy
8 years ago

Quackers – Nah, the stuff about Judaism was a little too thoughtful. Although I sure wouldn’t try to sell that “but it’s dark humor, it’s a way of coping” to my grandmother.

Sandra – I actually think one of Manboobz’s greatest strengths is that it exposes misogyny, rather than just denouncing it. Making misogynists face up to their own words is, IMO, far more powerful than simply telling them they’re dickheads.

Likewise, when you’re trying to convince non-misogynist but privileged people of just how bad misogyny can get, this blog has a hell of a lot more impact than one that simply says misogyny is horrible.

I’m of two minds about the “be better than our enemies!” versus “oppressed people have the right to be angry” thing, but honestly… I’m not particularly comfortable around violent threats made at anybody. Someone who says “I’ll kill your enemies!” is saying to me “I’m capable of killing over an insult!” and that’s really not a safe feeling for me, it’s not something that makes me feel confident they’ll always restrict it to my enemies.

Sandra
Sandra
8 years ago

Oh Holly I’ve seen just how sympathetic the site is to misogynists. They’re debate is welcomed. Open arms ( ).

Quackers. An apt name. Gets Jaffas*

jumbofish
8 years ago

Oh Holly I’ve seen just how sympathetic the site is to misogynists. They’re debate is welcomed. Open arms

Do you actually read this blog or are you just assuming this? O_o

Bostonian
8 years ago

Their “debate” such as it is, is welcomed in some senses of that word. So we should be welcoming to misogynists? Or else be leveling threats hither and yon?

Holly Pervocracy
8 years ago

Sandra – I’d ask you for examples, but I’m wondering if you’re just a really novel troll.

Deleting misogynist comments is not the only way to combat them. Sometimes ripping them to shreds and revealing the illogic and hypocrisy contained within them is a whole lot more illuminating–as well as more satisfying for the people attacked by those comments.

I don’t begrudge any other blog its moderation policy, but you’re way out of line declaring Manboobz a fountain of misogyny just because David has made this a debate/mockery venue rather than a strictly moderated one.

jumbofish
8 years ago

Look I’ve been reading this blog for a long time and trust me that the mood in here is pretty hostile to mras.

Shadow
Shadow
8 years ago

@Holly

I think you confused Mandolin’s post as Sandra’s because of the similar gravatars. She could well be an MRA, though I don’t think it’s necessary. Humanity’s full of angry people and shit stirrers.

Mandolin
8 years ago

Although I sure wouldn’t try to sell that “but it’s dark humor, it’s a way of coping” to my grandmother.

So we apparently have grandmothers with different kinds of perspectives. I’m not clear on why that makes your experience more valid.

Anyway, your geek social fallacies of sex post was very cool. Ran into it today and tweeted it.

Kyrie
Kyrie
8 years ago

Look I’ve been reading this blog for a long time and trust me that the mood in here is pretty hostile to mras.

And if there’s need to show credentials, mra’s are really hostile David and his blog.
Anyway, I’m not sure how death or violence threats can help fight the misogyny.

Holly Pervocracy
8 years ago

Shadow – Oops, you’re right.

Mandolin – Sorry, I don’t mean much more than that yeah, our grandmothers ARE different, and the tolerance for dark humor clearly varies a lot within the community.

cloudiah
cloudiah
8 years ago

@Sandra
I read this crap here because it would be seriously triggering to read it anywhere else, but I feel like I need to know what’s going on with these folks. If David was doing something simply voyeuristic, I would have run away, but exposing the MRA crap in a way that belittles it in a safe/supportive (sorry to sound so therapeutic) environment is actually helpful for me. Even skipping over to read their shit is okay as long as I have a safe space to jump back to. If it doesn’t work for you, that’s cool, but you’re not everyone. Okay, good night.

Mandolin
8 years ago

I usually use this as my example of the way dark humor works as a coping mechanism. It’s Mel Brooks, as quoted in a US News & World Report article (I actually first saw him making similar statements somewhere else entirely, but these are close enough):

`I was never crazy about Hitler,” says Mel Brooks. Who was? But even now, more than 50 years after the fall of the Third Reich, the man who masterminded the extermination of more than 7 million people is still handled with care, as if the magnitude of his crime demands no less. Brooks had the guts, and gall, to realize that the simplest way to demolish Hitler was to mock him.

“If you stand on a soapbox and trade rhetoric with a dictator you never win,” says Brooks, 75. “That’s what they do so well; they seduce people. But if you ridicule them, bring them down with laughter–they can’t win. You show how crazy they are.”

Mandolin
8 years ago

I don’t mean much more than that yeah, our grandmothers ARE different, and the tolerance for dark humor clearly varies a lot within the community.

Fair enough. Sorry. 😉

katz
8 years ago

All racist jokes make you a racist, all rape jokes mean you secretly want to rape, all terrorist jokes mean to secretly wish to be a terrorist… etc.

I’ll just trot out my usual point: Is this really the hill you want to die on? Your right to make racist jokes?

Invariably when i get into arguments with conspiracy nuts one of them will eventually suggest that I am a tool of the Jewish overlords, or some such, and I will make some joke about signing up with the Jew overlords because there are free bagels at the meetings, or something like that.

Kladle’s Jewish recruiting agency picture is another good example.

Oh and unless you are a moderator or owner of this blog, kindly shut your cakehole as I was talking to David, not you dickhead.

And another person fails to make the calculation, “Who do people on this blog like better, kladle or me?”

Sandra
Sandra
8 years ago

@Holly Pervocracy

Yeah but dontcha think misogyny is already so greatly exposed in your everyday life? Do you really need a bloke to tell you how much you are despised and then rule that you only post nice words about it? This post right here. This post is an honest example of how many men actually feel about women. You go google “feminism” and what you will find is very many sites devoted to the purported evils of women and feminism. I think that trying to make misogynists face up to their own words is pointless. They have a vested interest in making women feel like a piece of shit – a second class citizen. Ironically that’s how I feel whenever I come here. Elevating women’s status would plunk some men even lower on the totum pole than they already are. No man is interested in true equality. Think about it. The highest man on the totem pole is never going to be disloged. All those below it are in danger of being pegged down a space when we speak about equality and equal opportunity. And down it goes until the middle class man on the pole is terrified of being downstaged by any woman given opportunity. There we have misogyny.

Misogynists aren’t interested in serious debate. You need to be, whether or not the discussion involves angry platitudes of pretend violence. Not some bloke reminding you of how despised you actually are.

Mandolin
8 years ago

“Invariably when i get into arguments with conspiracy nuts one of them will eventually suggest that I am a tool of the Jewish overlords, or some such, and I will make some joke about signing up with the Jew overlords because there are free bagels at the meetings, or something like that.”

This is effectively the toaster joke.

So, really, as a queer Jew, I should go recruit a straight person to get the toaster and then go and sign up with the Jewish overlords so I can acquire the bagels.

The only question now is how to get a nice schmear.

savagebeard
savagebeard
8 years ago

Hopefully I’m not getting to this particular discussion too late, but I’d like to say that as an Asian person, I’ve had the experience of having to call someone out on a racist joke that she made about my race, to me. She was shocked. She had thought that we would be able to laugh at the joke together, because it should be obvious to me that she wasn’t a racist and that the joke was meant in a spirit of fun.

I asked why she thought all that, and she cited examples of two other non-white people we knew who totally made those jokes with her and laughed when she or others made them.

Neither of those people had a personality where you would think they would take shit from anyone, but I think that they were more invested than I was in the friendships they had within the mostly white group. Another time, a bunch of us were having a meeting to discuss what we should dress as for Folsom Street Fair, and a white girl shouted out, “We should go as Asians!” I glanced at one of the women mentioned above, who is also Asian and had known all those people for quite a while. She had a sort of half-laugh coming out of her mouth. I could see how there was no space for her, if she was offended, to take the issue up with her fifteen white friends who thought it was funny.

This was all in San Francisco – not where you’d think to find racism until you actually live there.

Holly Pervocracy made a great list of reasons why a non-white person might choose to make and take jokes about his/her race. But even if the commenter’s friend in question is 100% fine with it, really and truly, I’m also staying out of lurk mode to write this for other people who like to make racist jokes with their friends. You don’t know what’s really going on with them. I think it’s cool for people to just make sure they never tell racist jokes, rather than putting the burden on listeners to speak up if they feel offended. Not telling racist jokes is easier than having to tell all your friends that you don’t want to hear racist jokes, you know?

Holly Pervocracy
8 years ago

Sandra, and I’m saying this as mildly as possible, it sounds like this just isn’t a good place for you.

…Also, the “you’re still being silenced and ordered around and told you don’t understand your own actions, but this time by a WOMAN” brand of feminism pisses me the hell off. You don’t help oppressed people by offering to be their new oppressor.

jumbofish
8 years ago

Yeah but dontcha think misogyny is already so greatly exposed in your everyday life? Do you really need a bloke to tell you how much you are despised

No I am pretty sure most women don’t need a reminder…thats not the purpose of this blog though….

No man is interested in true equality.

okayyyyyyy *back away from radfem*

Misogynists aren’t interested in serious debate.

No shit, but it makes people feel better to combat it with debate so why not let them? Thats how they cope with such horrible people existing.

Shadow
Shadow
8 years ago

By that logic we can’t trust anyone to want equality. Which leaves us with… thunderdome?

savagebeard
savagebeard
8 years ago

Also, I’m not sure that there is such a thing as being 100% fine with sharing racist jokes with one’s friends. Everything about racism is so complex, in theory and in personal experience, that it might never be possible to get there.

Viscaria
Viscaria
8 years ago

I guess if there were actual Oppression Olympics, and everybody in the whole world competed, we could trust that the official Most Oppressed Person could be fighting for equality. Not that zie would get very far since absolutely everyone else on the planet would be working against zir.

jumbofish
8 years ago

You know I really hate saying this and I rarely do but if you don’t like this site then you should leave. Its not going to change anytime soon and you clearly are just offended a site like this exists. This site maybe not for you but others like it here including me. I feel better seeing people react so negatively to this kind of crap, it restores a bit of my faith in humanity.

Obviously you don’t feel better to see this kind of thing being smacked down which is fine but you should move on and leave people to cope with it how they want.