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a voice for men creepy douchebaggery evil women false accusations hypocrisy misandry misogyny MRA rape that's not funny!

On A Voice for Men, rape jokes about men are hilarious, so long as they're about some dude you don't like.

How seriously does Paul Elam, head cheese of A Voice for Men, take the issue of rape? So seriously that he has proudly declared that

Should I be called to sit on a jury for a rape trial, I vow publicly to vote not guilty, even in the face of overwhelming evidence that the charges are true.

It’s in bold in the original, too. Evidently, the best way to fight against false accusations is to let the guilty free.

Recently, Elam has started a whole campaign, complete with its own little acronym and everything, to encourage others to follow his lead. In one recent post, he even seems to be suggesting (in a wink-wink-nod-nod sort of way) that his followers should lie about their beliefs  in order to get on juries, just so they can Fuck Their Shit Up and, as he put it in a one word comment advertising the post on Reddit, “nullify.”

Now, in his original post on rape, it seemed to be pretty clear that his ire was aroused specifically by the specter of evil women lying about being raped by men. As he put it, justifying his decision to acquit the guilty,

Women lie about being raped, judicial politicians make careers off of putting away sexual offenders, and a brainwashed public cheers it all on. That so many of the men caught up in this are innocent doesn’t stop the grinding wheels of all this injustice for even a moment.

But before we conclude that Elam’s stance on rape is simply misogynist, I point you to a new post that suggests that he takes the rape of men just as (not) seriously as he takes the rape of women – to the point that he thinks it’s hilarious to make jokes about raping men. Announcing a radio show devoted to further discussion of his surreal atheist post from earlier this week, he says this about one famously feminist atheist activist who is also a dude:

Hopefully, before we are done [with the radio show], MRA’s of differing views will find more common ground, and PZ Myers will be limping to the drug store for some KY Jelly.

I guess on AVfM, making a rape joke about about a man is just peachy, so long as the man in question is someone you don’t like.

Stay classy, Paul!

(Thanks to Xanthe for alerting me to Elam’s most recent post.)

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Rutee Katreya
9 years ago

anyone who plays their alleged rape as a trump card in a debate is pretty fucked up as well.

How comforting to know MRAs think male survivors are just as much liars as female survivors.

Pecunium
9 years ago

Rutee: Rape is only really rape if the victim is attacked, violently, and fights back. A “REAL MAN™” would fight back, and either prevent the rape, or be killed.

So any man who gets raped, wasn’t trying to prevent it, not really, ergo it wasn’t REALLY rape.

/cynicism

Bostonian
9 years ago

I really hate being proven right sometimes. There really is no low MRAs will not sink to. There is no one they have real sympathy for, aside from the chosen few, and even they will be turned on in a moment.

MRAs consistently demonstrate themselves to be stupid, evil and cruel people who lie about verifiable things.

blitzgal
9 years ago

Troll, not-troll, feminist victim, gay progressive and all variations in-betwixt. All possibilities fully accounted for. Check.

Men who are raped are gay, with the implication of course that ONLY a gay man would LET himself get raped. Gee, and we wonder why even fewer men report their sexual assaults than women. Disgustingly vile bastard.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

@Holly:

“Besides he was probably a feminist, and then we really really don’t have to worry.”

I totally called it.

Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

That they care more about rapists than women was a given, but even to my jaded mind, that they care more about rapists than men feels like a new development.

…What exactly are these “men’s rights” again?

Amused
9 years ago

He has a daughter. I wonder if he would do all he could to keep a man who raped her out of jail. If not he’s a hypocrite.

Hypocrisy is a philosophy of personal exceptionalism. I wouldn’t be surprised if Paul Elam totally lost his shit if HIS daughter was raped, because hers would be the only real rape in the world, and her case would be special. Besides, it’s so much easier to hate the faceless, nameless mass of “skanks” than an actual person one knows by name and has a relationship with.

My own father has the most appalling views on rape. (He often tells a joke — THIS MAY BE TRIGGERING — along the lines of “Three girlfriends were walking down the street. Two got raped, the third one didn’t want it.” Or “Thee girlfriends were walking down the street. Two got raped, the third one was ugly.”) And yet, I have no doubt in my mind if I was raped, he’d kill the perpetrator.

Bostonian
9 years ago

Men’s rights only apply to the few in the MRM, all others can go hang for all they care.

Shadow
Shadow
9 years ago

The dude’s last name is supposedly “Elam”? I guess it makes sense; he clearly IS a particularly backward kind of male

So THAT’S why Xanthe keeps calling him the backwards male. WOW I’m slow :$

Shadow
Shadow
9 years ago

Honestly, anyone who uses the term “renegade X” is an obvious faux-X activist AFAIC. See MRAs, nationalists etc

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

Fun little comment after Elam’s fail at back-pedaling:

“Tom Snark in reply to just some helpful troll
The problem with TAA is his delivery. And that includes the above citation.

He’s so full of ‘fucks’ and ‘shits’ and ‘c*nts’ he comes off sounding like a feminist. Or just immature. When I watched his video response to the Sharon Osborne incident, I thought, I admire this guy’s passion, but he sounds like he’s about to burst into tears. He needs to stop shouting about it and channel that fury into constructive anti-feminist discourse…”

I… what the hell, man. What the hell.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

“Paul Elam:

… In the end it doesn’t matter, though. Most everyone has agreed that TJ was in the wrong for saying what he did, AND that anyone who plays their alleged rape as a trump card in a debate is pretty fucked up as well.”

This is not an unexpected reply. “Feminists are terrible people” becomes “well, both sides are wrong, but especially the victim.”

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

Shadow, don’t feel bad, it took me a while to catch that as well.

jimmythegreeksghost
9 years ago

Well, it’s okay to joke about rape, in the right context…ala George Carlin and other great comedians. It’s also okay to use your RIGHT to jury nullification. This is the corner stone of the American jurisprudence system, along with natural law theory as a standard.

What isn’t okay is to talk about rape flippantly without even attempting a joke (although I wouldn’t ban it by law or anything), and trying to nullify violent crimes like rape. Nullification is reserved for when the crime is deemed tyrannical, aka the jury diagrees with the law on principle. This is also called “voting your conscience”.

It’s hard to “vote your conscience” when you don’t have one, however.

Kyrie
Kyrie
9 years ago

Shadow, don’t feel bad, it took me a while to catch that as well.
I still hadn’t. Now I did. (I thought i was a joke with “lame”)

Crumbelievable
Crumbelievable
9 years ago

“He’s so full of ‘fucks’ and ‘shits’ and ‘c*nts’ he comes off sounding like a feminist. Or just immature.”

What’s Elam’s catchphrase again? Mess….Their…. Stuff Up? Something like that. Eh, it’ll come to me later.

Lady Zombie
Lady Zombie
9 years ago

This is sort of off-topic but I’m chuckling at the new type of shaming that’s about to be born: Neckbeard shaming.

Numerous people called TJ a neckbeard along with other names like “repulsive toad.” Anyway, a few people are taking offense to neckbeard and are making an issue out of it. Mostly on Youtube video comments.

Still, it’s a little humorous. But I suppose that’s my estrogen produced, hairless face privilege showing.

Dracula
Dracula
9 years ago

What the hell is a “neckbeard” anyway?

red_locker
9 years ago

“That they care more about rapists than women was a given, but even to my jaded mind, that they care more about rapists than men feels like a new development.

…What exactly are these “men’s rights” again?”

Requoting for justice…and out of disgust.

At this point, there should be no doubt that the current MRM isn’t a Civil Rights group AT ALL.

ozymandias42
ozymandias42
9 years ago

Dracula: A beard that’s on one’s neck. It became metonymy for a basement-dwelling geek for some reason.

Caraz
9 years ago

Presumably because it’s the result of not shaving. And not shaving is seen by people to be a sign of..laziness? slobbishness?

*briefly wonders if ‘neckbeard’ is the male equivalent of the ‘hairy legged’ insult thrown at women*

red_locker
9 years ago

“Presumably because it’s the result of not shaving. And not shaving is seen by people to be a sign of..laziness? slobbishness?”

Strange thing is, I haven’t done anything to my moustache in FOREVER, yet I still got a job where I faced customers of all ages face to face as they took pictures with Santa Claus. Got plenty of smiles.

…I think that is an example of the male priviledge I get in regards to apperance, though.

thebewilderness
thebewilderness
9 years ago

The “rights” that they covet are the traditional fantasy rights of men to rape pillage and plunder.
The fact that these are the feudal rights of lords (mostly fictional) that when exercised prompted the peasants to drag them down and bludgeon them to death seems to escape their awareness.

darksidecat
9 years ago

He’s so full of ‘fucks’ and ‘shits’ and ‘c*nts’ he comes off sounding like a feminist.

Shit, fucking feminists don’t say the fucking c-word. Fuck.

red_locker
9 years ago

“The “rights” that they covet are the traditional fantasy rights of men to rape pillage and plunder.”

The anime series “Berzerk” is a documentary.

TRUE FAX

lowquacks
lowquacks
9 years ago

Re: the neckbeard thing. Teenagers often have patchy facial hair, as we all know, and often this starts from around the neck up with the moustache, sideburns, and soul patch area filling in last. If this is what happens to you, apparently you are supposed to shave? I would personally, and I don’t think it’s a good look, but honestly, do what you want with whichever hairs you grow.

Anyway, as far as I can tell the whole thing plays into the hegemonic-masculinity idea that REAL MEN have thick, full beards and anything less is shameful or geeky.

So yeah, “neckbeard” is a bit of a bullshit term, but I don’t see it as tooooo much of an issue. I’d be interested to hear, say, Noah Brand on it.

Incidentally, my beard started really high and moustache-centric and still doesn’t extend that far past my jawline, so I suppose I must be naturally professorial or sophisticated or something in that system?

BoggiDWurms
BoggiDWurms
9 years ago

All this talk about Paul Elam…

He has a daughter. I wonder if he would do all he could to keep a man who raped her out of jail. If not he’s a hypocrite.

Is his daughter so narcissistic that she is “semi-human” like most “western women”? Or does she know her place. Did Paul Elam teach her where her place was?

Paul Elam wrote an excruciatingly terrible article about a woman he counseled who was sexually abused by her father. His website advises men not to get involve with single parents as their children might want “local celebrity” and falsley accuse them of abusing them.

This is who Paul Elam is.

PAUL ELAM IS ACTUALLY A COUNCILOR? I’m surprised someone didn’t fire the bastard and permanently revoke all of his licenses and degrees! He is unfit to be in any kind of counseling profession at all!

And that goes to every MRA out there:

RockingMrE
ManWomanMyth
Erin Pizzey
Angry Harry
MRAL
NWO
TheAmazingAsshole
Susan Walsh
Any drifters on this site
Any MRA on the internet and IRL at all

(Yes, MRAs out there I am addressing YOU!)

This Paul Elam is one of your main spokespeople and representatives for the MRM. If any of you still support or endorse him in any way, or in any way support or endorse the MRM, you are unfit to be called a human being.

You MRAs are some of the most stupid, vile, cruel, hypocritical, and mean-spirited people on the planet. People like you are what’s wrong with the world. Your “mens’ rights” movement has been justifiably indicted as a gigantic fraud, and is the most pathetic joke for a human rights movement to ever exist.

lowquacks
lowquacks
9 years ago

@Caraz

I think it goes beyond “not shaving is lazy” into “not having a full beard is UNMANLY”.

It’s similar to “hairy-legged”, but is usually used to imply a lack of social skills rather than being OMG such a bitchy feminist harpy. It’s still implies deviating from gender norms hair-wise is bad, though. I’ve had “ponytail” used in a similar way, generally for more liberal-minded geeks or those accused of “white-knighting”.

jumbofish
9 years ago

*briefly wonders if ‘neckbeard’is the male equivalent of the ‘hairy legged’insult thrown at women*

They are in no way comparable. Its pretty much socially expected that a woman shaves her legs. With guys its socially acceptable to not the shaving hair on your neck.

lowquacks
lowquacks
9 years ago

@red_locker

“What is best in life?

To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women!

That was Elam, I think. Or was it Roissy?

jumbofish
9 years ago

oops let me retry that

*briefly wonders if ‘neckbeard’is the male equivalent of the ‘hairy legged’insult thrown at women*

They are in no way comparable. Its pretty much socially expected that a woman shaves her legs. With guys its socially acceptable to not the shaving hair on your neck.

lowquacks
lowquacks
9 years ago

Actually, Elam would probably go with “the thought of crushing my mangina enemies, seeing them driven before them, and then not actually rape the women they don’t have because they are manginas unworthy of such a fun toy. And when I say “not actually rape”, I mean “totally rape, but rape is a feminist conspiracy to oppress men”.

lowquacks
lowquacks
9 years ago

Oops. Add “gives me a boner” after “fun toy” and before “. And when I say…”

Crumbelievable
Crumbelievable
9 years ago

Or “say that rape is totally wrong, but then vote to let the rapists off without penalty and make the victim suffer just for shits and giggles”

lowquacks
lowquacks
9 years ago

I wonder if all beards can be classified like that, anyway. Can I be a top-lip-and-thin-strip-of-under-mouth-area-and-little-triangle-underneath-my-chinbeard?

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
9 years ago

Is describing your beard gonna turn into something like the Feministe describe-your-privileges list before every post? Are we gonna fight over “beardless” versus “beard-free”? 😀

lowquacks
lowquacks
9 years ago

@Bagelsan

“Beard-free” is a typical feminist neologism. By endorsing an unfortunate lack of masculinity as a convenience, feminists reveal their hate of all that is manly. And yes, that is misandric.

I knew you’d admit to wanting to castrate all men eventually.

You’re all just fat ugly bitches who will wind up sleeping with bearded alphas anyway. Enjoy your cats, feminists, and enjoy your lack of pussy, “beardfree” manginas.

Think on it.

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
9 years ago

It’s true; we fat ugly bitches actually judge the alpha-ness of a man by the quality of his manly beard, like the plumage of a male peacock. But admitting that makes it sound like we maybe don’t want to castrate men (and that’s just silly!) so we pretend to despise beards. Stupid beards! You suck, you fuzzy triangularish bastards!

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth

My preference is no bears for anyone. So when I become Supreme Generalissimo Queen Empress Mother of the World, no bears for anyone!

jumbofish
9 years ago

why no bears???
what did bears to do you???

BoggiDWurms
BoggiDWurms
9 years ago

Speaking of rape, here an MRA says “rape culture” is the result of women screaming at imaginary rapist men.

http://i.imgur.com/ecuSc.png

.The irony.

Sharculese
9 years ago

It’s also okay to use your RIGHT to jury nullification. This is the corner stone of the American jurisprudence system, along with natural law theory as a standard.

as someone who actually cares about these things, i cannot stress how wrong the above is. just in case anyone didnt figure that out.

Sharculese
9 years ago

lets reduce a complex legal system to the dumbest and most self-serving soundbite possible. what could be wrong with that.

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth

why no bears???
what did bears to do you???

They never hunted the mammoth for me. Or was that beards?

lowquacks
lowquacks
9 years ago

@jumbofish

Ruined a Kodiak moment perhaps?

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth

Also Jumbofish, I was being silly-who would be a Supreme Generalissimo Queen Empress Mother of the World?

Shadow
Shadow
9 years ago

why no bears???
what did bears to do you???

Clearly someone’s never lost their pic-a-nic basket

lowquacks
lowquacks
9 years ago

@PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth

A massive misurstrist, apparently.