How seriously does Paul Elam, head cheese of A Voice for Men, take the issue of rape? So seriously that he has proudly declared that
Should I be called to sit on a jury for a rape trial, I vow publicly to vote not guilty, even in the face of overwhelming evidence that the charges are true.
It’s in bold in the original, too. Evidently, the best way to fight against false accusations is to let the guilty free.
Recently, Elam has started a whole campaign, complete with its own little acronym and everything, to encourage others to follow his lead. In one recent post, he even seems to be suggesting (in a wink-wink-nod-nod sort of way) that his followers should lie about their beliefs in order to get on juries, just so they can Fuck Their Shit Up and, as he put it in a one word comment advertising the post on Reddit, “nullify.”
Now, in his original post on rape, it seemed to be pretty clear that his ire was aroused specifically by the specter of evil women lying about being raped by men. As he put it, justifying his decision to acquit the guilty,
Women lie about being raped, judicial politicians make careers off of putting away sexual offenders, and a brainwashed public cheers it all on. That so many of the men caught up in this are innocent doesn’t stop the grinding wheels of all this injustice for even a moment.
But before we conclude that Elam’s stance on rape is simply misogynist, I point you to a new post that suggests that he takes the rape of men just as (not) seriously as he takes the rape of women – to the point that he thinks it’s hilarious to make jokes about raping men. Announcing a radio show devoted to further discussion of his surreal atheist post from earlier this week, he says this about one famously feminist atheist activist who is also a dude:
Hopefully, before we are done [with the radio show], MRA’s of differing views will find more common ground, and PZ Myers will be limping to the drug store for some KY Jelly.
I guess on AVfM, making a rape joke about about a man is just peachy, so long as the man in question is someone you don’t like.
Stay classy, Paul!
(Thanks to Xanthe for alerting me to Elam’s most recent post.)
@Quackers:
It was basically:
Elam: “Here are some studies that show my side”
David: “Here are reasons why those studies aren’t very reliable, and here’s a whole host of studies on the same topic that show my side, and in addition here are words from the researchers of your studies claiming your side is wrong.”
Elam: “Your sources are from feminists, and therefore not worth discussing. Your opinion is just opinion, not fact like mine is.”
It kinda went downhill from there.
That’s pretty similar to how the Atheist Community pwned the “Race Realists” a few months back.
Even the sources of the “Race Realists” backfired on them.
Next time you debate with a prominent MRA David (if ever again) you should add a provision that you can each bring a bodyguard to watch your back and keep things fair in case somebody cheats. I nominate me! 😀 I can tank any trolling attempts while you deal with the facts :3
@David:
From Elam’s behavior, he was never interested in the actual debate, let alone finishing it. He was condescending nearly from start to finish, and just kept right on going when you dropped out.
In hindsight I can say that you were obviously peeved, and asking him to take down your side of the debate was a bit much, but honestly it seems like being in the same comment section as him would be enough to bring out anybody’s bad side.
What’s really telling, though, is that after you dropped out, you have articles popping up on AVFM like “David Futrelle- Covered in Pin Feathers and Clucking”
You can’t roll around in their shit and come out clean. 🙁
Next time you debate with a prominent MRA David (if ever again) you should add a provision that you can each bring a bodyguard to watch your back and keep things fair in case somebody cheats. I nominate me! I can tank any trolling attempts while you deal with the facts :3
YUSS!!!!!1111 GO AI ANGELWINGS!!!!
<(^.^(^.^)>
@Quackers:
I’m going by David’s first response in the debate, where he goes over the problem with the scale that Elam’s studies used, and the rest.
Sharculese | February 9, 2012 at 10:37 pm
i seriously don’t get how anyone could read paul elam and not after five minutes be like ‘wait a minute, this guy is totally bugfuck’
THAT, I don’t get : Lots of “moderate” MRAs (or “anti-feminists” as some like to be called) seem to keep holding AVfM up as some sort of moderate site, or somebody they like to read despite all their claims that Spearhead goes too far and they’re not like the woman-hating MRAs… o_O Even Zeta Male, who I kinda like (as a person, at least from what I know of him, which admittedly is very little and a couple interactions) holds Elam up and was super excited for Register-Her and Valenti being put there…
As for PAN…
I wouldn’t go that far. PAN has a website dedicated to stalking his ex-wife.
To my previous post, “say” was supposed to be “see.” My kingdom for an edit button.
@ami
The whole obsession with evil exes that so many MRAs have is so weird. Hands up anyone who doesn’t have at least one ex who they think is kind of an asshole! I’m thinking there won’t be many hands, from either men or women. But most of us just kind of go, oh well, that was a learning experience, and then move on. Most of us don’t make “my ex was a dirtbag” into a political movement.
“i seriously don’t get how anyone could read paul elam and not after five minutes be like ‘wait a minute, this guy is totally bugfuck’”
Someone pointed out to me that everything written on that site aims to whip its readers into an angry frenzy so that you’re just consumed with rag and unable to think clearly.
rage*
@Ozy I think you should make a NSWATM post about the rape”joke” from Elam because it’s attacking a prominent person, joking about rape, and Elam claims to care about men, so it’s all relevant to men and an example of how people think rape against men is funny, and joke about it. -_-
Plus, we’re talking about the MRM. I’m betting “My ex is evil” includes “expects me to support my children”. Or, god forbid, initiated a divorce/breakup while unhappy.
A lot of AVFM is really only capable of affecting deeply misogynistic people. I mean, the “Feminists are Nazis” article was so hilariously poorly written it literally doesn’t work unless you already agree.
Jackasses who think rape is funny don’t tend to restrict this view to just men.
Ami, the target being PZ Myers, unfortunately I can imagine a proportion of NSWATM commenters suggesting he deserved the rape joke to be made about him because he’s such a feminist mangina. 🙁
@Rutee:
” I mean, the “Feminists are Nazis” article was so hilariously poorly written it literally doesn’t work unless you already agree.”
Which article was that? I searched ‘AVFM + Nazis’ but didn’t find anything.
I’ve yet to see an MRA post/article that makes any sense if you don’t start from the assumption that women are evil, not oppressed, and lie a lot. It’s the definition of preaching to the choir.
I have an evil ex. I don’t hate her. I might have, in the throes of the break-up, but as soon as we weren’t in the same domicile, I got over that.
I even spoke to her politely the last time I saw her.
@CassandraSays:
That’s probably because they don’t care about actually arguing with feminists, since they’ve already decided that feminists do nothing but lie.
http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/where-is-the-counter-argument/
They don’t even seem to be trying to win over people who’re neither feminist nor MRA, though. There’s a huge mass of people who don’t lean one way or the other, or who’ve never even really stopped to think about social justice issues as related to gender, and MRAs seem to have decided that those people are the enemy too.
I don’t mean just Elam by the way (he’s already admitted to feeling that way). Most MRAs write from the assumption that anyone who isn’t an MRA is out to get them and in league with feminism.
It’s also tactic also used by Glenn Beck, Faux News and all those other wackjob extreme conservatives. It’s purposely used to get people to not think critically and not look at the entire picture. For example I hate the whole War on_____ headlines always used. Its just trying to get you emotional to either sell books, newspapers or sway you to believe bullshit.
@Crumbelievable http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/in-the-shadows-of-dachau/
Thanks. I thought I had read it before but couldn’t remember much about (for good reason)