Categories
a voice for men creepy douchebaggery evil women false accusations hypocrisy misandry misogyny MRA rape that's not funny!

On A Voice for Men, rape jokes about men are hilarious, so long as they're about some dude you don't like.

How seriously does Paul Elam, head cheese of A Voice for Men, take the issue of rape? So seriously that he has proudly declared that

Should I be called to sit on a jury for a rape trial, I vow publicly to vote not guilty, even in the face of overwhelming evidence that the charges are true.

It’s in bold in the original, too. Evidently, the best way to fight against false accusations is to let the guilty free.

Recently, Elam has started a whole campaign, complete with its own little acronym and everything, to encourage others to follow his lead. In one recent post, he even seems to be suggesting (in a wink-wink-nod-nod sort of way) that his followers should lie about their beliefs  in order to get on juries, just so they can Fuck Their Shit Up and, as he put it in a one word comment advertising the post on Reddit, “nullify.”

Now, in his original post on rape, it seemed to be pretty clear that his ire was aroused specifically by the specter of evil women lying about being raped by men. As he put it, justifying his decision to acquit the guilty,

Women lie about being raped, judicial politicians make careers off of putting away sexual offenders, and a brainwashed public cheers it all on. That so many of the men caught up in this are innocent doesn’t stop the grinding wheels of all this injustice for even a moment.

But before we conclude that Elam’s stance on rape is simply misogynist, I point you to a new post that suggests that he takes the rape of men just as (not) seriously as he takes the rape of women – to the point that he thinks it’s hilarious to make jokes about raping men. Announcing a radio show devoted to further discussion of his surreal atheist post from earlier this week, he says this about one famously feminist atheist activist who is also a dude:

Hopefully, before we are done [with the radio show], MRA’s of differing views will find more common ground, and PZ Myers will be limping to the drug store for some KY Jelly.

I guess on AVfM, making a rape joke about about a man is just peachy, so long as the man in question is someone you don’t like.

Stay classy, Paul!

(Thanks to Xanthe for alerting me to Elam’s most recent post.)

Subscribe
Notify of
guest

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

199 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Xanthe
Xanthe
9 years ago

I’m also horribly offended that the backwards male would abuse the poor apostrophe. What did it ever do to deserve its mistreatment?

Yes, that’s misandry.

Bostonian
9 years ago

Oh yeah, he is a total moderate.

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

Have any MRAs called him out on that rape joke yet because that’s pretty f-ing disgusting -_- I hope after you’ve pointed it out now, if none have, they will now and Elam will apologize for joking about male rape. It’s okay to make a mistake and f- up, just apologize and admit you too are affected by rape culture which includes “haha rape of men is funny” :

blitzgal
9 years ago

Just out of curiosity, I tried to find out how many rape trials even result in a conviction. Per this CBS article, only 25% of cases even result in an arrest and there are over 20,000 rape kits in this country that have never even been processed for DNA evidence. Yup, overwhelming evidence that the deck is stacked against the accused in this country.

More willful ignorance on the part of an MRA. Color me shocked.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/11/09/cbsnews_investigates/main5590118.shtml

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

@Blitzgal the little trick MRAs do is to claim that anybody accused of rape even if it doesn’t go to trial will be beaten up and possibly killed by “white knights” (WW 2/2 first strike, pro black)..

also in their minds the standard of evidence is SO LOW (I explained their logic earlier, short version: most rape occurs between 2 ppl in private and is indistinguishable in evidence from consensual sex because we never know if the victim consented, even to rough stuff, so therefore with no evidence and no witnesses outside of the accused and the complainant, that ANY rape convictions happen is proof the standard is too low) that if only 25% result in arrest it means 75% are prolly even MORE frivolous -_- (like how NWO claimed that women lied about rape to get a homework exemption from school)

Pecunium
9 years ago

I think the plank in the “rights for men” charter about, “blood feuds is meant to deal with men being attacked by families/friends of women who get raped.

blitzgal
9 years ago

that if only 25% result in arrest it means 75% are prolly even MORE frivolous -_- (like how NWO claimed that women lied about rape to get a homework exemption from school)

Yeah, I figured they would interpret that 25% stat as proof that 75% are false accusations. Pathetic.

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

Yup, Pecunium. It is… (I forgot all about that one)… and (possibly) also about women who have sex and their families get all “YOU DEFILED MY PROPERTY” with whoever she had sex with -_- Basically it’s: “it’s all the (lying) slut’s fault, THROW HER IN JAIL NOT THE MEN WHO COMMITTED ASSAULT!”

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

What I’m confused about is the “ensure that laws that protect minors aren’t used to prosecute minors…”

What exactly is that referring to, especially the first part about not prosecuting children for spreading lewd pictures of themselves? Is it as bad as I think it is?

Rutee Katreya
9 years ago

@Kirby: It refers to the perennial hobbyhorse of teens getting jailed for fucking teens (Which *does* happen at a nonzero rate, even if it’s still quite rare).

Never mind that it’s asinine. See: Age of possession…

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

@Rutee:

I figured that was what the “close in age” thing was about…

But the other part, not jailing kids for distributing porn of themselves… Suggests to me that they want to make it all that much harder to stop distribution of child porn. It’s much harder to prosecute the many people who obtain pictures, rather than prosecute the child (or adults) who distributed it.

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

@kirbywarp I actually think what that meant was about teen “sexting” and that sending a girl a picture of your penis not be able to be considered sexual harassment….

Rachel Maud
9 years ago

Yupp, he totally cares about men.

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

HAW HAW, rape jokes. Stay classy, Paul.

Calling him the head cheese is so damn appropriate. That shit’s disgusting.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

No, see, what you’re all missing is that rape jokes are OK MRAs don’t like the person they’re being made about, since rape is also OK if they don’t like the person who it happens to.

Does this make MRAs terrible people? Yes, yes it does.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

@Ami:

I’m pretty sure its referring to minors who post pictures of themselves.

BoggiDWurms
BoggiDWurms
9 years ago

MORE MARMOSETS!

http://c.images.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/14353698.jpg

Seriously, I could make an infinite amount if I wanted you. The inspiration never runs dry.

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

@Kirby actually yeah, you’re right, it includes that too…

http://falserapesociety.blogspot.com/2009/09/in-brave-new-world-of-sexting-females.html

Apparently I missed this little thing of the MRAs xD

ozymandias42
ozymandias42
9 years ago

I expect all the MRAs who are glad to inform me of how little I care about the rape of men will be out storming the barricades to condemn Paul Elam.

…No?

Funny, that.

Quackers
Quackers
9 years ago

MRAs are filth. I know someone else was politely told not to call them that, that it’s too mean, but I really can’t think of a better word to describe. Hypocritical filth.

BoggiDWurms
BoggiDWurms
9 years ago

MRAs are filth. I know someone else was politely told not to call them that, that it’s too mean, but I really can’t think of a better word to describe. Hypocritical filth.

These are the guys who say “Aww! Do you need to file a hurt feelings report?” to women they completely degrade. They can sure dish it out but they can’t take it.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

@Ami:

There’s so much spin in that article i’m surprised the website didn’t flip upside down. Talking about how women are pressured into sexting is really just trying to cover for the crime they commit? Oi…

Crumbelievable
Crumbelievable
9 years ago

Dave, I read on one of the archived posts that you once had a debate with Elam? Where can I read/see/hear this?

Bostonian
9 years ago

You know, I already thought calling him a moderate, reasonable MRA was amusing, but now I will straight out laugh at anyone offering him up as the moderate, reasonable wing of the MRM.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

“Dave, I read on one of the archived posts that you once had a debate with Elam?”

That would be like debating a really angry deck chair.

BoggiDWurms
BoggiDWurms
9 years ago

“Dave, I read on one of the archived posts that you once had a debate with Elam?”

A dramatization of Dave’s encounter with Elam, preserved for the ages.

BoggiDWurms
BoggiDWurms
9 years ago

Actually, that’s how an encounter with every MRA is like.

Quackers
Quackers
9 years ago

@Boggi

not to mention the way they degrade men who disagree with them also. I thought they were pro-man, not just pro-only-men-who-agree-with-everything-I-say.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

@Crumbelievable:

AVFM has it here apparently: http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/activism/a-debate-on-domestic-violence/

Ignore the spin, and just focus on the words. Except this spin:

“And part of that purpose was to demonstrate convincingly that in the world of blogging on men’s issues, David is an unknown now for the same reasons he will remain one for all time.

He’s a fucking moron. He was, though, annoying enough to gain his 15 minutes of mediocrity.”

Heh heh, how that looks in hindsight. 😛

KingMerv00
KingMerv00
9 years ago

Long time lurker, first time poster.

Paul Elam disgusts me as law school graduate, a man, and human being. I need to bathe in rubbing alcohol after reading that.

debbaasseerr
9 years ago

He mentions uniting different parts of the MRA views. Maybe he can get the “rape is a weapon to punish sluts” faction to come to an agreement with the “rape is a weapon of women against men group.” How this will affect the sleazy PUA as opposed to the bitter Incel? How do you sort all the horseshit?

This is another reason for the atheist community (at least, any one I’d be part of) to keep up a steady heat on feminist issues (in addition to others) – figuring out gods don’t exist is a million times easier than treating women like equals for many men.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

Oh, and also worth noting: Elam was being a dick:

“David (manboobz)
Paul, what is this bullshit? I never agreed to multi-part responses. I don’t want your “part one” sitting out here for 24 hours without an opportunity to respond.

I have written a response and I expect to see it posted BEFORE your “part two” goes up. If I do not see my post up by Sunday afternoon, it will go up on my website. Please contact me ASAP to let me know what you plan to do.

This is actually the second time you have unilaterally changed the terms of the debate that we publicly agreed to — it’s all there on my website if you want to check. I went along with the first change (5 posts each instead of 2 posts each) but this one, no way.”

“Paul Elam
@ manboobz

We never stipulated that there could be no division of the posting as I have done here. If you want to do the same thing there is nothing stopping you.

I have 48 hours to respond and that is what I am doing.

No harm no foul so don’t bitch about it now. We started this thing without much discussion at all, just a couple of very brief exchanges in the comments of your blog. If you were concerned about covering every possibility with such rigid zeal, then you could have addressed that up front. You chose not to.

I am not using any manner of posting that is not 100% open to you, so coming the comments to whine is not necessary or appropriate.”

“David (manboobz)
Paul, you get a warning from me. When I agreed to this debate is was under the condition that the discussion here would be fair and open. If you are giving Chris a warning for making generalizations about MRAs that you don’t like, then I suggest you give warnings to each and every person here who has made similar generalizations about feminists. That would include you as well.

You should also give warnings to the fellow who referred to me as a “pile of dogshit,” those who suggest I “hate men” and the like. Oh, and the one who suggested that I and other feminists are like Nazis. Oh, that was you again.

Either retract your warning to Chris, or give yourself and all of these other people public warnings as well, or I am out of this debate. Which has gotten rather pointless as it is, given that you have not responded to my basic point yet…”

Actually, this whole exchange is priceless. ^_^ Search the comments section for it.

Quackers
Quackers
9 years ago

@Kirby

I don’t think I went through that whole debate, but if I recall correctly I think Elam thought David was still a loser even though David not only agreed that men should have DV services, but when he pointed out that women are injured more due to domestic violence regardless of whether it was reciprocal or not, and they get killed by their partners more often as well, him and his troglodyte cronies still declared him the winner.

Because pointing out that more women get hurt and die is no big deal. That’s why someone who commits minor or common assault and someone commits murder are totally sentenced for the same amount of time! because its totally the same level of severity *eyeroll*

thebewilderness
thebewilderness
9 years ago

I think the MRA position on rape is that it is not a crime and should not be illegal.

As far as the sexting pictures, a judge and some law enforcement asshats decided to teach girls a lesson by arresting them and charging them with transmitting child pornography for sending pics of themselves in their underdrawers. It has caught on among the authoritarian asshats who can’t be bothered to prosecute gang rapes that are recorded on cell phone cams but are deeply committed to charging children with child pornography for sending pics of themselves.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

@Quackers:

It was basically:

Elam: “Here are some studies that show my side”

David: “Here are reasons why those studies aren’t very reliable, and here’s a whole host of studies on the same topic that show my side, and in addition here are words from the researchers of your studies claiming your side is wrong.”

Elam: “Your sources are from feminists, and therefore not worth discussing. Your opinion is just opinion, not fact like mine is.”

It kinda went downhill from there.

Crumbelievable
Crumbelievable
9 years ago

@kirby:
Thanks. I’ve only just started it but I’m sure it will make for an “interesting” read.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

This, by far though, is the best part. And also the last comment on the page, after David demanded that Paul not post David’s portion of the debate.

“Paul Elam
I got your response, hanging.

You offered them up to participate in a debate, one that you publicly agreed to, and one that you kept submitting to after you knew they were being posted here.

But I tell you what, I am going to make a speshul deal, just because you are a speshul kind of manboob. If you want to cover the expense of me culling out all the responses, and compensate me for the damage done my intellectual property – the debate I hosted- and considering I invested significant time and obviously high dollar talent in the whole affair, then we can make a deal.

Here are the expenses as I see them.

Time and stellar talent invested in my part of the debate – $10,000

Wading though your ill informed feminist drivel – $15,000

Watching you get humiliated in front of thousands – Priceless

So, there is a PO Box address under my donation button. Send your certified check or money order in the amount of $25,000 and I will honor your request.

Seriously, you must be out of your mind. Of course, I understand that you must be desperate to turn the clock back to the moment you agreed to this debate and have the chance again to say no.

But this is not the world of wishes.

Now, like I said before. Quit posting to this blog, unless you prefer the feminist mangina page.

You are always welcome there.”

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

In other words, Paul was an ass nearly the entire debate.

Quackers
Quackers
9 years ago

@Kirby

Wait…the researches of MRA favorite studies said MRAs are wrong? where?

That’s a cop out excuse Elam used. You’re supposed to take in information from all sides. I’ve read some of the studies claiming DV is 50/50…what I don’t understand is if there is so much research to back up this fact, if it IS true and there’s nothing wrong with the methodology, I really think the truth would have come out and the government and police would embrace it and create laws based on it. There is no damn feminist conspiracy, even if feminists protested against it, that’s all they can really do. You can’t suppress information like that. If there were truly nothing wrong with those studies they would be accepted by law enforcement and government.

The National Institute of Justice even believes they are bullshit, why would they need to lie? http://www.nij.gov/topics/crime/intimate-partner-violence/measuring.htm

In any case I don’t see why it’s still an issue to create shelters for the men who are abused.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

Did Elam offer any explanation of why he thinks that the time he spent on the debate was worth 10 K? I mean, I know these guys think of themselves as very important and all, I’m just curious about the whole idea of attaching numbers to that delusion.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

@Quackers:

In one of the studies Elam was using to try to say that women commit just as much DV as men, one of the researchers was quoted as saying that the study could not be used to justify that view.

The point was there was a lot wrong with the methodology, and what amounted to equating a one-time slap with 15 years of abuse. Yeah…

It’s amazing going over all the reactions to this debate… So much spin over what actually happened, and so many sides clamoring to declare victory even if they have to lie about what people said…

Quackers
Quackers
9 years ago

ROFL!!!

High dollar talent? because childishly taunting your opponent is totally the mark of a talented debater. What a moron.

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

@ozymandias srsly… I’m waiting too

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

@CassandraSays:

Elam thought David was being arrogant by claiming his half of the debate as IP that should be removed from the site. Elam therefore responded in kind with arrogance. The dollar amount was just trolling in response to what he saw as a tantrum.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

@Ami and Ozy:

It hasn’t happened yet. What has happened is this:

“Steve_85
As far as I’m concerned there are three groups that matter.

1. Feminists.
2. Not Feminists.
3. MRAs.

If you’re in Group 1, I’ll just mention that you’re either stupid, or bigoted. If you’re in group 2, you may not be my enemy, but you aren’t helping either. If you’re in group 3, then you’re worth fighting for and I would call you friend.”

At least to Steve_85, it’s all just a matter of group warfare.

Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

@Kirby if somebody is going to have a debate with an MRA, I think it’s only fair if I guest referee 🙂 I mean just to make sure the rules are being enforced, and I’m good at laying out what’s going on and cutting through crap… I know ppl will think I’m biased, but my awesomeness precludes me from cheating in favour of like David, even MRAs would/should admit I’m pretty fair 🙂 (NWO should too, after all I criticized people who made rape jokes about him the same I would if an MRA made rape jokes about a feminist)

debbaasseerr
9 years ago

Feminists are bigoted, MRAs are not.

Up is down! Black is white!

Sharculese
9 years ago

i seriously don’t get how anyone could read paul elam and not after five minutes be like ‘wait a minute, this guy is totally bugfuck’

peter-andrew:nolan(c) is sane by comparison

Quackers
Quackers
9 years ago

@Kirby

Ah ok I see. Do you or does anyone else have a link where the researches said not to justify the MRA view? I’d like to bookmark it xD

1 2 3 4