At the risk of splitting the “misogynist dickbaggery in the atheist movement” discussion in two, I really need to mention the amazingly well-timed Reddit meltdown of TheAmazingAtheist. It’s already been covered pretty well by PZ Myers and by Jen McCreight of BlagHag but, what the heck, I’ll throw in my two cents as well.
TheAmazingAtheist, for those who don’t follow these things, is (or was?) a popular atheist podcaster well-known, and beloved by some, for being something of a misogynist dickbag. He’s been on a anti-feminist kick for the last couple of months, winning himself many plaudits on Reddit’s Men’s Rights subreddit, though even the MR regulars couldn’t help but notice that he’s a bit of an ass.
Well, now he’s pretty much revealed, with a series of horrendous comments on Reddit, what a complete and utter asshole he is. Let me put a second TRIGGER WARNING here (for violent talk about rape), on top of the default TRIGGER WARNING I put on all my blog posts.
The context : a discussion (which he started) about the propriety of one feminist Redditor calling themself ICumWhenIKillMen. I’m not going to defend that nickname, which obviously makes light of violence in an obnoxious way. But AmazingAthiest was apparently so troubled by this sort of language that he felt compelled to spew forth a succession of violent rape threats.
Let me draw your attention to some of the highlights. (Click here to see his whole comment history on Reddit, where he comments as terroja).
Things started going south about 19 hours ago, when he told one detractor:
I’m going to rape you with my fist.
He followed this with:
I will make you a rape victim if you don’t fuck off.
It got worse:
I’m tired of being treated like shit by you mean little cunts and then you using your rape as an excuse. Fuck you. I think we should give the guy who raped you a medal. I hope you fucking drown in rape semen, you ugly, mean-spirited cow. Actually, I don’t believe you were ever raped! What man would be tasteless enough to stick his dick into a human cesspool like you? Nice gif of a turd going into my mouth. Is that kind of like the way that rapists dick went in your pussy? Or did he use your asshole? Or was it both? Maybe you should think about it really hard for the next few hours. Relive it as much as possible. You know? Try to recall: was it my pussy or my ass?
He continued in this fashion for some time, mocking those who pointed out that rape threats can be triggering, and regularly referring to his opponents as “cunts.” (Each of the following paragraphs is from a separate comment of his; click the quotes to see the full comments in question in their original context.)
BTW, you have to admit, when I told you that I hope you drown in rape semen, you got a little wet, didn’t you? It’s okay. We’re friends now. You can share.
Yes, you read that right: he was saying this shit to a rape victim.
Eventually, theAmazingAtheist found himself stopped short by this scathing critique, from the Redditor called veerserif.
I now know that, apart from being misguided, intentionally ignorant, and quick to resort to pathetic excuses, you are also a purposefully hurtful person with no sense of empathy, and no sense of remorse. You’re not just unintentionally uninformed, you actively turn what you know against people who should be deserving of your sympathy.
I was mistaken before. I thought, maybe, just maybe, after the circlejerking and the giggling, I could try showing you the stuff you said I didn’t highlight. I could show you what feminism has done for men, or maybe tell you about the existence of sex-positive feminism.
But this… this is a whole new level.
Your reputation, in my eyes, has fallen so far that dragging it back up to “mild disgust” would require nothing short of a miracle. You pretend to care about other people, but you really don’t. You like to think that you’re a decent human being, but you fall so far short of that you’re practically on separate planes of existence.
Deliberately triggering a rape victim? Equating being called out on your bullshit to the trauma of rape?
You know what you deserve? You don’t deserve death. You don’t deserve rape. You don’t even deserve some cosmically mandated, hilarious schadenfreude which would not only be brilliant, but just.
What you deserve is for everyone to know this side of you. You deserve for anyone who thought you were a good person to know what you’ve just done. You deserve your fans’ adoration turning to hatred, you deserve the judging stares and looks that people will give you. You deserve to be reminded, every day, of what you do and what you’ve done. You deserve to remember every day that there are people who suffer more than you, that there are people who are stronger and smarter, braver, more principled and better than you, in every way, until the day you realise exactly how wrong your actions have been.
I don’t want to see bodily harm visited on you, because I don’t want to see bodily harm visited on anyone. What I do want is for you – and, for that matter, every shitposter I’ve ever seen – to learn that anonymity is not an excuse.
At this point, theAmazingAtheist backed off, offered a whiny, petulant non-apology apology for, as he put it, “SOME of the statements I made,” and wondered aloud why people were still so mad at him.
He went on to make, yep, a little video about his experience, and to offer a weird and unconvincing “rebuttal” to PZ Myers’ comments on his meltdown. See PZ Myers’ post for links to the video, as well as the rebuttal itself (which is effectively re-rebutted by Myers). See here and here for a transcript of the video.
Naturally, there’s a discussion of the meltdown on ShitRedditSays as well.
One heartening sign in all this: the massive numbers of downvotes theAmazingAtheist got for his worst comments. I hope that a significant number of them were from actual Men’s Rights Redditors, and not only from people who came into the discussion from elsewhere on Reddit, but of course there is no way of knowing.
Will atheists and MRAs drop theAmazingAtheist like a hot rape-threatening potato? Or will they start rallying around him as some sort of heroic truth teller and rape threatener? Somehow I suspect there will be a bit of both.
@Pencunium Your rant was amazing and I saved it because it really described him astoundingly well. 🙂
@kladle I like that he says “What more can I do? I’ve asked this several times and the only answers I get are “kill yourself.”” when I explicitly told him what he could do and he totally refused to do so.
Everyone else, I really appreciate your support and your kind words. 🙂 <3
Thanks bostonbetagirl, and I accept your offer of a billion cookies Shaenon xD
@bloodquartz
Manboobz will always be there, taking out vile bigots one at a time.
Everyone should scroll up and read bloodquartz’s story if you haven’t already. It’s very powerful.
@bloodquartz
I’m glad you’ve found a way to help yourself combat what your dad put into your head; you are totally right that there is more to life than MRA lies, hatred, and bitterness. Keep telling yourself that– I don’t know you but I know for sure that you can’t be what your father told you since no woman on earth is like that. You were very brave to post your story here. I hope you keep going on your journey out of that hellhole. 🙂 And if you like the community and want to talk things out more, you may want to sign up for the forums, they are here.
@Lorrdernie
I know, right? There have been a lot of people telling him exactly what he needs to do. Instead, he is so interested in protecting his victimhood status that he pretends it didn’t happen. Or it would make him too uncomfortable and he didn’t do anything wrong so why should he do it, blah blah blah 😛 I really hope you’re holding up well with all of this attention. Take care of yourself.
I’ve honestly been surprised. I have yet to receive even one piece of hatemail.
Oh geez, the transcript…
“Uhm, these poor guys, they go in there, and they’re just like (mocking tone) “I wanna respect women more!” (returns tone) and then the next thing they know, is like, (monotone, loud mock voice) “I must not look at women’s breasts. It’s-it’s sham- It’s wrooong! My own sexual urge isn’t right, it’s wrong now!” (returns tone)”
What in hell? This is surely more some sort of religious attitude? I’m sure straight guys look at boobs all the time. Hell, I look at boobs fairly often and I’m not even into them. It’s so easy to downplay the negative aspects of yourself like this, when really you were being criticised for being a sleazy fuck and not just surreptitiously looking at someone’s boobs.
Who the hell are these guys angry at? Does this one really think anyone gives a shit that he likes boobs? Did anyone actually say this to him?
I could disgust the rest of this post but it just makes me want to vomit so I’ll probly leave it alone…
*discuss, appropriate mistake
bloodquartz, thanks so much for your comment. I’m sorry you’ve had to deal with this shit and glad that the blog and the commenters here have helped. Welcome!
You might also want to check out the MB forum too; it’s a pretty friendly place,with less trollery than the comments here.
“Uhm, these poor guys, they go in there, and they’re just like (mocking tone) “I wanna respect women more!” (returns tone) and then the next thing they know, is like, (monotone, loud mock voice) “I must not look at women’s breasts. It’s-it’s sham- It’s wrooong! My own sexual urge isn’t right, it’s wrong now!” (returns tone)”
What in hell? This is surely more some sort of religious attitude? I’m sure straight guys look at boobs all the time. Hell, I look at boobs fairly often and I’m not even into them. It’s so easy to downplay the negative aspects of yourself like this, when really you were being criticised for being a sleazy fuck and not just surreptitiously looking at someone’s boobs.
Either TTA is that lacking in his “understanding” feminism or he’s deliberately misrepresenting it and only choosing only to see some demented caricature he created in his head.
@bloodquartz
I’m so sorry you had to go through what you did with your father 🙁 *hugs if you want them* I’m happy to hear that your mother and you were able to get away from his abuse.
I can relate to your post, I talk about MRAs to my friends irl too and they’re like, shut up already. Both the males and females. I think what is important to differentiate between a legitimate call for male rights and victim services, and the cesspool of misogyny, delusion, extremism, paranoia and anger that the MRM engages in. One can support men’s rights without going off the deep end like most self proclaimed internet MRAs do. I can’t understand how constantly putting women down and encouraging men to not trust us- half of the human population, actually helps men. All it does is fosters hate. But at the end of the day that is all the MRM is, a hate movement that doesn’t care about men’s rights, but just wants to tear women down.
You’re most definitely not worthless. The majority of men do not think you’re worthless and deserving of hate. I hope this site continues to help you more and more each day 🙂
Magical Laura,
I suspect he’s trying to avoid the fact that there’s a difference between looking and staring, certainly in the way that staring or ogling will often be noticed by the woman who is being stared at. A look is okay; to stare is rude, and he knows it. He’s trying to deny that men are actually expected to behave like grown adults and exercise some self-control – that the straw feminists that exist only in his mind would tell him it’s wrong is a made-up fantasy to avoid behaving in a responsible and civilised manner.
According to posters at Pharyngula, TAA has deleted his reddit profile (so his posts are marked as having been written by ‘deleted’) and is removing the more egregious comments from his Twitter profile. (I gather there have been numerous screencaps already taken, so he won’t evade opprobrium so easily by merely sanitising his profile.)
According to his formspring Q & A:
Aint that just dandy? I think this is just confirmation of him thinking there was nothing wrong with his actions. A remorseful human being would actual issue the apology (even if it really happens to be an insincere not-pology like what he’s offered so far) and shut up for a while. But he lacks the wit to shut up.
Q: Why do you refuse to apologize for your revolting comments? Why not do it in public and show that you actually have a shred of decency? Why do you isolate yourself from the atheist community by being hateful?
A: At this point, any apology would just be chalked up to a cave-in to peer pressure. Such an apology would be hollow and ring false.
And look, the one that he made really is hollow, and it does in fact ring false! This is the first totally accurate thing TAA has said so far.
“And by the way, BY THE WAY, it’s a tautological- women and men use the word “dick” MORE than men use the c-word- and it’s a gendered insult, no one ever calls a woman a dick- but somehow the c-word is “worse”, really for no reason”.
Really? I’ve heard ‘dick’ used about women a lot *shrug*. Maybe only in the UK. Think about what the words imply about a person. Which would you rather be called?
Quackers, you’re a badass.
I had an ex who used the ‘just snapped/heat of the moment/raging temper’ excuse.
We’re talking full-tilt gonzo reaction to being thwarted/denied/not being treated respectfully enough. Screaming, slamming, punching walls, breaking shit and using every single single thing you’d ever told in confidence in a full on verbal attack on your looks, your stupidity, your completely wasted brain, the fact no one actually liked you they were just being polite.
Name calling- some of it sexist, some of it racist.
As my clinical depression cleared enough for me to able to hear friends saying ‘GET OUT! Come to us, we will protect you!’ I began to notice something about that just snapped bullshit.
Did Evil Ex EVER pull this histrionic ‘I just snapped’ bullshit at anyone who was not markedly smaller? Nope, somehow Ex never snapped and lost it with, for example, other soldiers in the unit. And ex managed not to ever slip and go on one of these tears if there was any chance that an officer might get wind of it.
Ex didn’t ‘just snap”, didn’t ‘ just get a little hot under the collar’ with any one who had any power over the ex’s career, hoped for promotions ect. Never went berserk at the six foot plus SGT living next door. In fact, to my certain knowledge, never ‘just snapped’ while on duty.
The monumental shit fit that I got thrown at me for pointing this out was the last straw.
So yeah, this bullshit fauxpology is recognizable and makes me tired.
Also MRAL, why do you care so much whether we consider certain safe spaces ‘legitimate’ if you think we’re all assholes? Visit the rest of the internet.
@ Bloodquartz
Thank you for for relating your experiences.
This blog does a vital public service.
@ Futrelle
Hi David – I’m wondering how you first found the MRM and were drawn to writing about it, why you chose the style that you do and where you can see this all going?
Goddamit, I hate people so much sometimes.
I can have a terrible temper, especially if I feel frustrated because I think I’m deliberately not being listened to or misrepresented by someone. I get that from my dad and my mum.
Number of times I’ve threatened rape or used any kind of -ist language? Zero. Number of times my parents have? Zero. As pointed out above, that’s because I don’t think those things anyway.
However, I am *scarily* good on picking up on people’s insecurities and knowing the exact way to hurt them most effectively and manipulate them into feeling like a bad person if we’re having an argument. Number of times I’ve done that? Zero. Because I’m a goddamn decent human being who doesn’t want to manipulate someone I (probably temporarily) disagree with just for the sake of pointscoring in a completely and utterly unrelated matter.
TAA is a wart on the arse of humanity, he really is.
HTML fail 🙁
Aaah, you broke the italics!
I’m a horrible person 🙁
But probably only 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% as horrible as TAA, so I hope you’ll forgive me.
Bloodquartz:
I’m so glad you showed up here and told us your story. You really don’t have to accept your father’s views. It’s far better for youto choose who and what you want to be and what you believe about the world and your place in it.
I have lots of virtual hugs for you if you would like them!
Lorrdearnie:
I’m so sorry that AA treated you the way he did. There’s no excuse for that kind of inhumanity. Ever.
There’s a hug here with your name on it if you’d like one.
Nat: I forgive you. And because of your apology you should probably add a few lines of ‘0’.
Okay, so, like, I really don’t want to be here, and I totally don’t care about Evan or Elena or whatever his, her, its name is but fucking Benny, y’know, he wants me to say this and he won’t fucking shut up until I say something so. Fine. Whatever. Cats, y’know?
So, Benny can’t fucking type for himself, so like, I have to be like his secretary, and that’s like, so humiliating, y’know? Paws and all that shit, y’know?
Whatever. So, Benny wants to know if any of you have, like, heard from, like this Evan kid or whatever. Just to, like, y’know, check up on him and shit. I keep telling him he or she or whatever it is, is fine, but Benny just won’t stop, y’know? He fucking snatched my hummer up in his jaws and said he wouldn’t give her back until I like, helped him, so like, here I am. Fucking cats, y’know what I mean? Can’t reason with ’em once they make up their minds and shit.
So, yeah. Evan or whatever the fucker’s name is. Anybody heard from him? Benny said he usually visits the house and talks to his bro every few days but lately, nothing doing y’know? So, he wants to just make sure that his bro’s doing fine and shit. Let him know ‘kay? Otherwise, I’m not going to be getting back that dream house either, and fuck if I’m going to lose the four poster bed.
Cya,
Aiden out