Paul Elam has apparently become something of a comedian – though not on purpose. In his latest post on A Voice for Men, he takes on the atheist community for being too in thrall to (wait for it) feminism.
I’ll let him explain:
[T]hey are too religious. Yes, I mean that literally. For when you wipe away all the bombastic bellowing about empiricism and the strident mocking of those who choose a life of faith, what you are left with is a population of people that surrender their reason and cognition as though they were at gunpoint; that hit their knees as fast as any Catholic…to worship at the altar of feminism.
His proof? Several years ago someone at Atheist Nexus posted a link to a Men’s News Daily column of his, and – get this! – some feminists responded!
You can go here to see all the horrible things these evil cultish feminist atheists said. Like, for example:
I guess I’m a feminist, but I really like men and these are some of the things I love about them:
Protectiveness is a positive trait in men that women who want to have babies look for. We also like passion and some recklessness, but you won’t get me to admit that to my daredevil husband…..
Confidence; men usually have more of it and it is mostly a postive trait.
The ability to make decisions quickly.
Physical strength and endurance are helpful in many family situations. Ahem.
Penises. You have them, lots of us like them. I know it’s not technically a “trait”, but I had to put that in.
You can practically taste the man-hate there!
Elam, I should note, ignores that comment. No, what’s got his underpants in a wad is this comment:
The whole web site mensnewsdaily.com is a sad overreaction to the growing equality of women in society.
Evidently he’s been stewing about this remark for more than two years.
In fact, if you go and take a look at it, the discussion on Atheist Nexus wasn’t … really … all that feminist. Yes, several people criticized Elam and mensnewsdaily as “extreme,” but one of those people also criticized radical feminists as similarly “extreme.” Some of the commenters explicitly identified themselves as feminist; others explicitly criticized feminism. Nonetheless, the discussion somehow managed to be the politest conversation about gender I’ve run across online in a long, long time.
Seriously. Go take a look at it. Then consider how Elam sums it all up:
Apparently they can’t even handle 50 years of loud mouthed arts majors without drinking the Kool-aide and going brain dead. There was scarcely a voice among them that did not wallow in the ersatz enlightenment so common to feminist ideologues.
And then he moves on to whatever this is:
Feminism, as far as ideology goes, has been very effective at using human reproductive realities to co-opt other movements. In fact, from the American Civil Rights Movement to Occupy Wall Street, feminism has progressed without paying its own way, but rather by sending women in to other social arenas and wheedling men into supporting them. The Borg would be proud if they had emotions. Resistance is Futrelle.
Ho ho! Futrelle rhymes with futile! Sort of! Lest Elam and co. become too overwhelmed with pride for this clever wordplay, I should note that some junior high schoolers beat him to the punch back in the late 70s. Or maybe it was grade schoolers. I really don’t remember.
I’m less clear about the rest of his argument about “human reproductive realities.” Apparently it’s a fancy way of saying that dudes only support feminism so they can get laid. Another highly original notion.
Elam’s other piece of evidence that feminism has taken over the atheist community? PZ Myers.
He quotes this evil athio-feminazi ideologue arguing that if male atheists want to get more women involved in the atheist community, they should:
Learn to shut up and listen. Seriously. You want women to find your organization pleasant and interesting and worth contributing to? Then don’t form panels full of men trying to figure out what women want, talking over women who try to get a word in edgewise, belittling women’s suggestions with jokes, and trying to determine how We Well-Meaning Men can give Those Women what we think they want. You are assuming an authority and presuming that it is in your power to give it to the minority, when what you should be doing is deferring to that minority and giving them your attention, letting them speak and shape your organization.
God – or, if you prefer, Imaginary Entity – forbid that male atheists actually listen to women explain why they might feel unwelcome in the mostly male (and not particularly feminist friendly) atheist community.
You really think feminism has taken over the atheist community? Take a look at Reddit’s Atheism subreddit, where, recently, a woman who recently described how she had been raped was attacked as a liar and a slut in a thread filled with rape jokes. Or go back a little further to the Elevatorgate brouhaha, where an atheist blogger who politely mentioned in a podcast that she doesn’t really like being hit on by strange men in elevators at 4 AM drew the ire of countless angry atheist dudes, including Richard Fucking Dawkins himself? (In case you want to revisit that bit of nastiness, I wrote about “Elevatorgate” in several blog posts; here are some reactions from decidedly non-feminist atheists.)
This is a movement that “worship[s] at the altar of feminism[?]” Not really seeing it, dude.
But again, congrats on the whole Futrelle/futile thing. Genius!
@CassandraSays:
Bud is either gone, writing up a very long response, or sitting in shock at my fantastic debate skills. My money’s on the latter. ^_^
Definitely your debate skills. 🙂 Wanker doesn’t know what hit him.
If the response also involves karate I will snicker.
@CassandraSays:
Luckily I’ve got a nice batch of Dr. Who to keep me company during the waiting period. No longer will people shoo me away, afraid of exposing me to spoilers, NO LONGER!
Aww, no way. Bud wrote a blog post! And it was posted after my last post to him in our little exchange! And I don’t get a mention at all!
http://dead-logic.blogspot.com/2012/02/who-wants-to-keep-talking-about.html#more
That’s brilliant.
From the post:
“Before some idiot trying to be clever stuck a “gate” to the end of the infamous elevator, I posted a comment on Rebecca’s video About Mythbusters, Robot Eyes, Feminism, and Jokes. You know, the video in which we first heard about Mr. Elevator Guy – the video that sparked Elevatorgate? My response to Rebecca’s video (and I don’t comment often on YouTube) was positive. I enjoyed it. It was the stuff that happened after that video – the stuff that became “Elevatorgate” – that I criticized.”
He’s trying to rewrite his own history! It wasn’t the flare-up he criticized, it was Watson! Who knows what he posted on the video, but dang if he seemed to have forgotten what Watson actually said later on.
*shakes head*
Sorry, Bud, I probably shouldn’t have described you as “decidedly non-feminist.” I probably should have just said you were really incompetent at being feminist.
Let’s say, for the sake of discussion, that I’m wrong. My criticism of Rebecca Watson is incorrect. It’s possible. I’m not perfect. Considering that we’re on the same side, and assuming we all consider ourselves freethinkers here, what benefit – aside from satisfying childish impulses – does insulting and belittling me have? How does the cause of feminism prosper if, instead of helping me understand how I was wrong like a decent freethinker would, you team up and turn this into an insult fest? I didn’t come here to argue or debate, but to converse. I gave you the benefit of the doubt and assumed you actually knew what being a freethinker means. You folks aren’t up to the task. So I’m out – not because I’m wounded, but because I’m better than this.
It makes you – boring, vaguely irritating, pedantic, tedious you – go away?
Uh, Bud, I hate to break this to you, but you seem to have the same problem a lot of our… “visitors” do. This is a site that mocks misogyny. SRS BSNS and “I’m better than you” meetings are down the hall to your left.
Thanks for stopping by!
Didn’t we all agree that I’m Better Than You meetings were to be held over in the Nobody Gives A Shit building from now on?
Um did you miss the subheading of the site?
misogyny. I mock it.
and you really think the solution to women feeling threatened is to learn karate? O_o
Yet another dude who wanders in and wants us to educate him–in the name of the feminist cause, no less–on how he wrong. Pass.
I read the whole thread with MRAL (he’s cycling through faster these days, and I see David has trained him to avoid personal attacks on people here, so he just attacks all women) last night, but didn’t trust myself to comment on it (and I swore off commenting TO MRAL a while ago).
So here I am back after a good night’s sleep–and able to say fairly briefly more or less what I was thinking last night.
1. MRAL is getting just what he wants from people here–attention (positive, negative, whatever).
2. Nothing has changed in the months since he “apologized” for being a troll–and the fact that people occasionally quote a good thing he said elsewhere (like happened here) just highlights the fact that he is still, for better or worse, trolling here.
3. Anybody who really thinks he needs to get off here and get help (as I do) might consider that the only way we have to change his behavior is to completely ignore him (Mythago said as much; I agree).
4. That solution is probably not achievable given that new people cycle in and out, and don’t know his history of attention-whoring, but I’d sure love to see one thread where he posted and nobody responded to him.
… Am I crazy if I don’t see either people ganging up (four total) or a bunch of insulting and belittling? Before his last post, I count four instances of direct name calling, and it was one each for four different people. Meanwhile, he directly insulted me through name calling once as well.
Also, apparently he went from “Honestly, I don’t know what David is thinking. He didn’t bother to explain why he considers me a “decidedly non-feminist atheist.”” to “Let’s say, for the sake of discussion, that I’m wrong. My criticism of Rebecca Watson is incorrect. It’s possible. I’m not perfect.” Good for him, I guess, but not if he’s gonna go through this whole “but you’re being sooo mean to me! It’s your fault that I have my fingers in my ears!”
You may have the vocabulary of an adult, bud, but you have the pride and ego of a kid. Come back when you fit the role of “freethinker” yourself.
Or David could ban him…?
and you really think the solution to women feeling threatened is to learn karate? O_o
Maybe kung fu instead? :p
@ bagelsan
Well in that case….
Just a comment from the previous thread … I know that this wasn’t said with any bad will in mind, but “spazzing out” is a bit ableist. The word “spaz” still has a lot of negative connotations for those who have epilepsy/cerebral palsey, and other related conditions.
Let’s call MRAL’s actions offensive and inappropriate and other words, but we don’t have to use a slur. 🙂
Thanks!
(For more info: http://www.pixeldiva.co.uk/thinks/spaz-is-an-unacceptable-term/)
Sorry, l meant “previous page” not previous thread…
@Molly Ren: He could, but since he hasn’t (moderation but then letting comments through), I’m betting that for whatever reason David isn’t going to do that.
@Hellkell: Bud struck me as another garden variety toll wanta be whose “game” is to approach a feminist or perceived to be feminist site, pretend to be a feminist (“I’m all in support of women’s equality, BUT…..) without actually showing any knowledge of the issues or even the basic rhetorics of feminisms, then proceed to mansplain how X proves that the silly women are doing it wrong, then when called on his trollshit, proceeds to be “why are you being so mean” and “don’t’ you want to edumacate me and convert me, lovely mansplainer that I am, to yer cause, because the more men the better” portion of the game.
Stale, cliche, overdone, and does not even deserve one star.
Ithiliana, exactly, and if he were a such the awesome freethinker as he seems to believe he is, he sure wouldn’t need us to school him. He could figure shit out for himself.
I did love the “I’m better than you,” which is always funny after such a display of ‘splainin.
Nah, I’m pretty sure bud was genuine. He just… can’t handle criticism, and got too wrapped up in “you aren’t being kind.” He holds to his label of feminist and freethinker dearly, without realizing that those labels are something you need to earn.
He got on the defensive right off the bat, so that probably didn’t help him at all.