Paul Elam has apparently become something of a comedian – though not on purpose. In his latest post on A Voice for Men, he takes on the atheist community for being too in thrall to (wait for it) feminism.
I’ll let him explain:
[T]hey are too religious. Yes, I mean that literally. For when you wipe away all the bombastic bellowing about empiricism and the strident mocking of those who choose a life of faith, what you are left with is a population of people that surrender their reason and cognition as though they were at gunpoint; that hit their knees as fast as any Catholic…to worship at the altar of feminism.
His proof? Several years ago someone at Atheist Nexus posted a link to a Men’s News Daily column of his, and – get this! – some feminists responded!
You can go here to see all the horrible things these evil cultish feminist atheists said. Like, for example:
I guess I’m a feminist, but I really like men and these are some of the things I love about them:
Protectiveness is a positive trait in men that women who want to have babies look for. We also like passion and some recklessness, but you won’t get me to admit that to my daredevil husband…..
Confidence; men usually have more of it and it is mostly a postive trait.
The ability to make decisions quickly.
Physical strength and endurance are helpful in many family situations. Ahem.
Penises. You have them, lots of us like them. I know it’s not technically a “trait”, but I had to put that in.
You can practically taste the man-hate there!
Elam, I should note, ignores that comment. No, what’s got his underpants in a wad is this comment:
The whole web site mensnewsdaily.com is a sad overreaction to the growing equality of women in society.
Evidently he’s been stewing about this remark for more than two years.
In fact, if you go and take a look at it, the discussion on Atheist Nexus wasn’t … really … all that feminist. Yes, several people criticized Elam and mensnewsdaily as “extreme,” but one of those people also criticized radical feminists as similarly “extreme.” Some of the commenters explicitly identified themselves as feminist; others explicitly criticized feminism. Nonetheless, the discussion somehow managed to be the politest conversation about gender I’ve run across online in a long, long time.
Seriously. Go take a look at it. Then consider how Elam sums it all up:
Apparently they can’t even handle 50 years of loud mouthed arts majors without drinking the Kool-aide and going brain dead. There was scarcely a voice among them that did not wallow in the ersatz enlightenment so common to feminist ideologues.
And then he moves on to whatever this is:
Feminism, as far as ideology goes, has been very effective at using human reproductive realities to co-opt other movements. In fact, from the American Civil Rights Movement to Occupy Wall Street, feminism has progressed without paying its own way, but rather by sending women in to other social arenas and wheedling men into supporting them. The Borg would be proud if they had emotions. Resistance is Futrelle.
Ho ho! Futrelle rhymes with futile! Sort of! Lest Elam and co. become too overwhelmed with pride for this clever wordplay, I should note that some junior high schoolers beat him to the punch back in the late 70s. Or maybe it was grade schoolers. I really don’t remember.
I’m less clear about the rest of his argument about “human reproductive realities.” Apparently it’s a fancy way of saying that dudes only support feminism so they can get laid. Another highly original notion.
Elam’s other piece of evidence that feminism has taken over the atheist community? PZ Myers.
He quotes this evil athio-feminazi ideologue arguing that if male atheists want to get more women involved in the atheist community, they should:
Learn to shut up and listen. Seriously. You want women to find your organization pleasant and interesting and worth contributing to? Then don’t form panels full of men trying to figure out what women want, talking over women who try to get a word in edgewise, belittling women’s suggestions with jokes, and trying to determine how We Well-Meaning Men can give Those Women what we think they want. You are assuming an authority and presuming that it is in your power to give it to the minority, when what you should be doing is deferring to that minority and giving them your attention, letting them speak and shape your organization.
God – or, if you prefer, Imaginary Entity – forbid that male atheists actually listen to women explain why they might feel unwelcome in the mostly male (and not particularly feminist friendly) atheist community.
You really think feminism has taken over the atheist community? Take a look at Reddit’s Atheism subreddit, where, recently, a woman who recently described how she had been raped was attacked as a liar and a slut in a thread filled with rape jokes. Or go back a little further to the Elevatorgate brouhaha, where an atheist blogger who politely mentioned in a podcast that she doesn’t really like being hit on by strange men in elevators at 4 AM drew the ire of countless angry atheist dudes, including Richard Fucking Dawkins himself? (In case you want to revisit that bit of nastiness, I wrote about “Elevatorgate” in several blog posts; here are some reactions from decidedly non-feminist atheists.)
This is a movement that “worship[s] at the altar of feminism[?]” Not really seeing it, dude.
But again, congrats on the whole Futrelle/futile thing. Genius!
Jesus tapdancing Christ, MRAL, pull your head out of your ass for five minutes and try to conceive of a universe that does not revolve around you. And then get some fucking therapy.
I don’t want to fuck every woman, in fact most I do not. But they’re still privileged. I don’t understand this argument. I don’t want to fuck Johnny Depp, he’s still really privileged and I don’t think people would shoot me down there.
Um, what?
Ever heard of a process called ‘transition’?
If being a woman is so fucking amazing, then go ahead and switch sides. I can even help you do it! Just say the word, broseph, I’ll even hook you up with some ‘mones.
A word of warning though; the realities of how women are treated might…shock you. Just a little.
Well, for one, I’m attracted to women, not men. I can’t really conceive of anything else. I’ve also become accustomed to my body. I like it. That doesn’t mean I’m not also disadvantaged, but like M Dubz, I like being male. It’s part of my identity.
@ Scar- I’m trying to figure out how to explain that I’m primarily attracted to cis-men, especially cis-men who are willing to play with their gender presentation. But I have also been attracted to trans men and nonbinary people who are MAAB.
… I probably should have just said that, shouldn’t I have. Dang. I seem to keep putting my foot in it recently. Sorry.
Seriously, MRAL, if your life as a man is that fucking bad, get to a therapist and start the transition process. But somehow I don’t think you’re willing to do that.
@ m dubz
If you think you shouldn’t have said than then you shouldn’t have said that. I mean you didn’t have to post that you basically dismissed the identities of maab trans people.
There is nothing wrong with being attracted to people like that but it sounds like you are exotifying them. Like how some people people like transwomen because they view them as “men that have women parts” aka “shemales”.
I’m pretty sure we already guessed that MRAL has some pretty strong dysmorphic issues… wasn’t he gonna see a therapist about that?
MRAL isn’t going to see a therapist any time soon, because that would involve admitting that there are things he could do to improve his life. And then he’d have no excuses to hate women.
@jumbofish- Yeah, I’m a little disappointed with myself for not rereading that before I posted it, because rereading, I see how lumping all of those different categories together instead of being explicit about what I meant served to erase maab trans people, which was TOTALLY not my intention. So I apologize, and I’ll be more careful in the future.
MRAL thinks PZ Myers is a loser – except in the only area that MRAL cares about: PZ regularly sleeps with a (goodlooking) woman who loves him, and has done for about 30 years.
no you clearly understood it was wrong before you posted it otherwise you wouldn’t have included this:
You also shat on trans men by separating them out from cis men.
Re-reading you post, it actually makes me feel ill.
Thank you for apologising though. Maybe next time just stop when one foot has gone into your mouth?
Maybe I shouldn’t have spazzed out tonight. I still stand by what I said, and don’t think I was that offensive. But I’m just not good at expressing myself online. I have very strong emotional reactions sometimes and I’m trying to get that across. I don’t enjoy places like the Spearhead or Reddit because I do find some of the offensive jokes there tiresome, but then people offend me here too, so I’m sort of in a middle ground.
You are a liar. Men have a lot more leeway when it comes to appearances, even your stupid PUA/MRA friends know this. Men are visual, they will discriminate a hell of a lot more when it comes to looks remember? studies have been done that showed that while both overweight men and women are discriminated against in the work force, overweight women have it worse. Show me the number or fat actresses in comparison to fat actors? show me the female versions of Jack Black, John Candy, Will Ferrell, John C. Riley, Steve Buscemi, John Goodman, Nick Nolte, Chris Farley, Christopher Walken….and even if there are female equivalents, who do you think would be more likely to be cast as a character who has a love interest? who do you think will be more likely to have a role that goes beyond “sarcastic, ugly friend” or “ugly chick who everyone laughs at”
and this is so rich coming from a dude who’s said mean shit about fat women, old women and who finds Rihanna, Lady Gaga and Adele unattractive. Note how the 3 women are not privileged due to being black, unconventional looking and overweight. What does that say about you? you who has it oh so hard, you who is so oppressed and discriminated against yet looks at 3 successful but unconventionally pretty singers and still claims them to be unattractive. SO OPPWESSED.
Ron Jeremy is ugly as sin but still fucks gorgeous women. Show me the female equivalent of Ron Jeremy?
Look how he reacts to the suggestions of a facelift to eh? something that many women do in order to keep looking young for the menz! that or injecting chemicals into your face. Can’t be looking like a hag at the age of 30 now can we?
Your privilege is showing. Maybe you should go crawl in a hole and stay there until it disappears. Though I don’t anticipate that happening anytime soon.
*sigh* I am clearly failing super hard right now. I’m going to apologize again, take your comments to heart and think about them for a while, and bow out.
*sorry, that should read Men IN GENERAL, are visual, they will discriminate a hell of a lot more when it comes to looks. Obviously it varies but yeah…point still stands.
Here’s an example, i would date Howard from Big Bang Theory in a second, looks-wise I think he’s really cute. I just think they gave his character a really pervy and borderline creepy personality. I’m talking about the character too, as he looks in the show, not the actor.
I would like to see how many men would date the female equivalent of him. Big nose, droopy eyes, Nintendo belt buckle and all.
Okay, dude, I’m 19, not 30. Also, I’m actually fine with my face.
Secondly, I find Lady Gaga and Adele unattractive and will say so. You guys have no problem talking about that kind of stuff. They’re still more attractive than me, of course.
MRAL, I don’t want to encourage you to keep posting here because I think it’s bad for your brain, but can you actually name ways in which you believe women are privileged? How would your life be better if you were exactly as you are now (average-looking, middle-class, etc.) but female?
Less than average-looking. But, um…. here’s a list. This is just my opinion.
– More attention, in general. I don’t like feeling ignored. It doesn’t even have to be strictly positive attention. Also, the social confidence this would bring.
– Sometimes I find it hard to bond with adult figures because I think that maybe they secretly consider me some horrible person. Especially women in authority, even though some of them have been great professors. You can call that paranoia, and you’d be right, but I can’t help it. It’s related to my self-esteem problems, maybe. And people like PZ Myers don’t help matters here. He’s a professor! I’m sure he’s a smart guy, but he shouldn’t be in an authority position when he has contempt for 45-ish percent of his students! That’s not a healthy thing.
– While I might still be insecure about certain physical aspects of me, I think it would be much less so.
– I read somewhere that women are less susceptible to depression, on average. I’ll take those odds.
– I got bullied really bad sophomore year of high school, by a girl. Obviously not physically, but I almost wish it was. Eventually, she got bored and moved on to another target, but I fucking hated her guts. And my friends were not sympathetic, they even sort of made fun of me for letting it happen. I feel like if I myself was a girl, someone might have been more inclined to step in. I could be wrong here.
If Futrelle rhymes with futile I’ve been pronouncing it wrong in my head, big time.
I want to know too, Shaenon. I suspect it’s stuff like “men hold doors open for chicks” and such, or the age old ‘pussy pass’ rhetoric. However, MRAL may enlighten us otherwise.
I have been informed that the sexual orientation of someone who sleeps with nonbinaries is “whatever they say it is.” 🙂
Scar: I wasn’t talking about in writing (in writing I strive for complete inclusivity, although I almost certainly fail), I was talking about in speech, in which case cis straights is clunky as shit. Too many S sounds and a weird rhythm. I think the ultimate solution here is to come up with a term for non-queers that isn’t “non-queers,” “straights,” or “cis straights.” Ideas?
M Dubz: FWIW, while I understand why Jumbo and Scar are so offended, I think what happened is that you fell into a pit of inner cissexism on accident. It’s okay. It happens. Just use your language more carefully next time, okay?
In general, it’s not okay to make trans men a different kind of men– after all, they are all real men! You could say something like “I’m attracted to men (cis and trans) and some MAAB nonbinary people.” Also, be careful to use “male assigned at birth” and not “male-bodied,” since all men have male bodies (some of them just have male bodies with vaginas).
Oh, and “trans and other genderqueer” is not okay either. There are LOTS of trans people who aren’t genderqueer.