Paul Elam has apparently become something of a comedian – though not on purpose. In his latest post on A Voice for Men, he takes on the atheist community for being too in thrall to (wait for it) feminism.
I’ll let him explain:
[T]hey are too religious. Yes, I mean that literally. For when you wipe away all the bombastic bellowing about empiricism and the strident mocking of those who choose a life of faith, what you are left with is a population of people that surrender their reason and cognition as though they were at gunpoint; that hit their knees as fast as any Catholic…to worship at the altar of feminism.
His proof? Several years ago someone at Atheist Nexus posted a link to a Men’s News Daily column of his, and – get this! – some feminists responded!
You can go here to see all the horrible things these evil cultish feminist atheists said. Like, for example:
I guess I’m a feminist, but I really like men and these are some of the things I love about them:
Protectiveness is a positive trait in men that women who want to have babies look for. We also like passion and some recklessness, but you won’t get me to admit that to my daredevil husband…..
Confidence; men usually have more of it and it is mostly a postive trait.
The ability to make decisions quickly.
Physical strength and endurance are helpful in many family situations. Ahem.
Penises. You have them, lots of us like them. I know it’s not technically a “trait”, but I had to put that in.
You can practically taste the man-hate there!
Elam, I should note, ignores that comment. No, what’s got his underpants in a wad is this comment:
The whole web site mensnewsdaily.com is a sad overreaction to the growing equality of women in society.
Evidently he’s been stewing about this remark for more than two years.
In fact, if you go and take a look at it, the discussion on Atheist Nexus wasn’t … really … all that feminist. Yes, several people criticized Elam and mensnewsdaily as “extreme,” but one of those people also criticized radical feminists as similarly “extreme.” Some of the commenters explicitly identified themselves as feminist; others explicitly criticized feminism. Nonetheless, the discussion somehow managed to be the politest conversation about gender I’ve run across online in a long, long time.
Seriously. Go take a look at it. Then consider how Elam sums it all up:
Apparently they can’t even handle 50 years of loud mouthed arts majors without drinking the Kool-aide and going brain dead. There was scarcely a voice among them that did not wallow in the ersatz enlightenment so common to feminist ideologues.
And then he moves on to whatever this is:
Feminism, as far as ideology goes, has been very effective at using human reproductive realities to co-opt other movements. In fact, from the American Civil Rights Movement to Occupy Wall Street, feminism has progressed without paying its own way, but rather by sending women in to other social arenas and wheedling men into supporting them. The Borg would be proud if they had emotions. Resistance is Futrelle.
Ho ho! Futrelle rhymes with futile! Sort of! Lest Elam and co. become too overwhelmed with pride for this clever wordplay, I should note that some junior high schoolers beat him to the punch back in the late 70s. Or maybe it was grade schoolers. I really don’t remember.
I’m less clear about the rest of his argument about “human reproductive realities.” Apparently it’s a fancy way of saying that dudes only support feminism so they can get laid. Another highly original notion.
Elam’s other piece of evidence that feminism has taken over the atheist community? PZ Myers.
He quotes this evil athio-feminazi ideologue arguing that if male atheists want to get more women involved in the atheist community, they should:
Learn to shut up and listen. Seriously. You want women to find your organization pleasant and interesting and worth contributing to? Then don’t form panels full of men trying to figure out what women want, talking over women who try to get a word in edgewise, belittling women’s suggestions with jokes, and trying to determine how We Well-Meaning Men can give Those Women what we think they want. You are assuming an authority and presuming that it is in your power to give it to the minority, when what you should be doing is deferring to that minority and giving them your attention, letting them speak and shape your organization.
God – or, if you prefer, Imaginary Entity – forbid that male atheists actually listen to women explain why they might feel unwelcome in the mostly male (and not particularly feminist friendly) atheist community.
You really think feminism has taken over the atheist community? Take a look at Reddit’s Atheism subreddit, where, recently, a woman who recently described how she had been raped was attacked as a liar and a slut in a thread filled with rape jokes. Or go back a little further to the Elevatorgate brouhaha, where an atheist blogger who politely mentioned in a podcast that she doesn’t really like being hit on by strange men in elevators at 4 AM drew the ire of countless angry atheist dudes, including Richard Fucking Dawkins himself? (In case you want to revisit that bit of nastiness, I wrote about “Elevatorgate” in several blog posts; here are some reactions from decidedly non-feminist atheists.)
This is a movement that “worship[s] at the altar of feminism[?]” Not really seeing it, dude.
But again, congrats on the whole Futrelle/futile thing. Genius!
@jumbofish
I was actually confused about that. I have heard cis-people that sleep with both cis and trans people referred (mostly self-referring) to as pan-sexual, but didn’t know how trans people refer to their relationships with the opposite sex. I’ll be honest with you, I have very few interactions with trans people (that I’m aware of). My world is pretty cis-hetero so it’s something that I haven’t given a lot of thought to, and my understanding of gender and sexuality is VERY rudimentary.
I hope I didn’t come off as offensive. I was just trying to say that this is the understanding that I was under, and I would like to be corrected if I’m wrong (which I clearly was, so cheers).
Straight trans woman here, with a straight male partner.
I am not ‘queer’ in the slightest and I don’t like being put in a category of ‘other than straight’.
‘Cis straights’ takes too long? Are you effing serious? It’s three letters.
@ozy- I identify as straight, and I’ve been attracted to trans and other genderqueer people in the past. I’m generally attracted to male-bodied or masculine people who fuck a bit with gender roles (I LOVE guys in makeup). Then again, I’m definitely more of a rounding up to straight type, so maybe not the best person to answer this question?
You are a fucking idiot and I have just lost what little bit of hope I had for you.
Yep, every last one of those privileges had to do with the fact that I am a woman.
Only, not. At all.
I don’t understand you, Laura. By virtue of being white, middle-class, and cis-gendered, I happily admit to being privileged. But I am not privileged by virtue of being a man. I’m also not completely able-bodied, but probably close enough.
MRAL, are you seriously familiar with my comics? They’re about, like, the opposite of everything you’ve ever posted here.
You know what, MRAL? I’m white, and young, and reasonably attractive (if a bit on the fat side). Want to switch?
Protip: you get to bleed a week every month. You get several sex-linked endocrine disorders. You get to be catcalled and leered at on a semi-regular basis. You get a body that has been sexually assaulted. If you date a guy in my body, and then break up with him, there is a nonzero chance that you will get multiple threatening text messages calling you a fat crazy slut. You also get to deal with the creeptacularness that is chubby-chasers.
See here’s the thing. I LIKE being female. I LIKE my body, and living in it. But there are very very real downsides to having a body like mine. I don’t deny that there are downsides to having a wonky, effed up eye. But it is not THE WORST THING EVER. So STFU.
ALSO! @MRAL, I totally DID address your point about female as default. I said that I am a straight female, and I think that boobs and vulvas are awesome. Also penises. I am therefore more female body positive than you.
There is a LOT wrong with this statement.
However, ‘male-bodied’ is probably the most problematic part of this.
I’m convinced! MRAL’s life is the absolute worst! Definitely way worse than my female girl existence as a lady woman who is female! You win, buddy! You may now go celebrate by leaving and hanging out on some GRRM forums or something.
Shaenon, yes, I’m familiar with your comics! I’m not a giant superfan or anything, but I used to read your stuff regularly in high school. I remember I went through the archives of Narbonic in like a week. That was really good!
A huge percentage of trans women have it done. You bagging us for doing it or what?
Fine then. Skip the facelift. Use that ‘huge IQ’ to get an awesome job, then buy everything you want. Men don’t need to be attractive to get women, according to the MRA philosophy – they just need to be loaded.
If you need these simple things explained to you, then I really don’t buy the ‘high IQ’ stuff.
@shadow
Its ok if you don’t know shadow, sorry I didn’t mean to come off as condescending. A trans person can be straight,bi,queer,gay,pansxeuxal,asexual, ect. I guess I’m a bit surprised you said that since most people tend to associate trans people as straight.
I don’t know how genderqueer people classify their attractions so I am not going to speak for them. The English language is kinda clunky for those that don’t fit into the binary. >.<
*pansexual
(oh boy I messed that word up big time XD)
Why does everyone keep asking me this? Yes, M Dubz, I would love to switch with you. Unfortunately, that’s not an option.
Basically, MRAL thinks only with his cock when he makes determinations about privilege, and ugly women are invisible when he’s not directly bagging on them for it, so he almost has a point about women being privileged over men. Except for all the shit he forgets, anyway.
Rutee, but that’s hot privilege. Ugly women are disadvantaged, sure, but it’s not because they’re women, it’s because they’re ugly. Just like ugly men.
Ugly women, middle-aged women, poor women, women who don’t go/have never been to college, women of color, old women…
When MRAL is talking about women and privilege he really only means the 17 – 22 year old female college students who ignore his jank-ass on a daily basis.
MRAL I thought you didn’t believe in mra crap
Nobinyamu, those are all disadvantages that HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING WOMEN. Men are all those things too. And they are disadvantages, but “women” in itself, is a privileged class.
Think on it.
tl;dr mral trollololol
think on it
It’s hilarious how OMG OFFENDED feminists get when I posit that, considering how often they like to say “men are ALL PRIVILEGED, though they can be disadvantaged in other ways”. That’s exactly what I’m saying re. women. Is that really so horrible? I just don’t get it.
@MRAL
You know what? I’m gonna try to be helpful here. Those disadvantages SHOULD have nothing to do with being a woman, that’s the whole damn point. Things that women suffer in this day and age do not directly follow, theoretically, from being a woman the same way that, say, being regarded as ugly cuts down on your dating pool.
And yet, that’s bigotry for you. It makes no damn sense, yet there it is.
You believe that the young women in your peer group who don’t give a fuck about you are “privileged” and that women are privileged as a class. But you literally, don’t consider any kind of woman other than “white, college chick you’d like to fuck” when you talk about women (except, occasionally as an after thought). Are you honestly suggesting that a middle-aged Black woman will have no issues with sexism? That a poor woman won’t have to deal with sexual assault?
Let me help you out here, you fucking dipshit: your desire does not automatically confer privileged status. All the women who don’t notice you aren’t suddenly “privileged” because you want to fuck them. And all of the women you don’t want to fuck? We still exist and have our own relationship with, interpretations of, and contributions to feminism.
Shut the fuck up.