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Men oppressed by not being allowed to bitch about ladies in public restrooms

I'm pretty sure this happens more often than conversations in men's restrooms

A startling new development on the frontiers of anti-male oppression. According to the loquacious lady MRA known as girlwriteswhat on Reddit, men are being oppressed by evil feminist dudes cruelly clamping down on their right to bitch about ladies in the bathroom. In a recent comment she writes:

No space is allowed to be male-only, or male-viewpoint-only, but women insist on female-only or female-viewpoint-only spaces all the time.

The only male safe space left on the planet is the men’s bathroom, ffs. And even then, there will be feminist-leaning men policing what is said. It’s very frustrating.

As a dude feminist who is a regular user of men’s restrooms, I should note that dudes do not actually talk in restrooms.

Happily, this does not prevent me, as a dude feminist, from policing the non-existent speech of other dudes in said restrooms.

Here is the complete transcript of a restroom discussion I recently policed:

Dude One: [silently urinates]

Dude Two: [silently urinates]

Dude Three: [silently poops]

Me: Goddessdamnit, keep it down with all your lady-bashing! Men are bad!

Always glad to help.

HT to Shit Reddit Says, which has just ended its month-long moratorium on r/mensrights posts, for pointing me to girlwriteswhat’s observation.

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Nobinayamu
Nobinayamu
8 years ago

To be fair, single fathers would have to quality for social benefits that single mothers have access to.

You think that they don’t? Do you have any evidence to support this supposition?

Of course you don’t.

You don’t believe that a man who has fallen behind on child support due to unemployment has any recourse to work within the system. Now, since I have actually worked with homeless and recovering men who do want to work within the system and I’ve seen them -first hand- receive pro bono legal advice and aid in order to do just that, I know for a fact that men can and do work with the family court system on issues of child support and custody.

You, however, feel that your cause is helped by simply lying and saying that any man who loses his job will go to jail for nonpayment.

talacaris
talacaris
8 years ago

here was this awesomely weird movie in the 60s in which a submarine was shrunk and injected into someone’s bloodstream, allowing the crew to take a close look at the inside of the human body

I think the script to that movie was written by Isaac Asimov who wrote a sequel, maybe “destination Brain” or something, set in a world where the Cold war lasted a bit longer than in reality.

Shadow
Shadow
8 years ago

@CassandraSays

There were still shrooms though. Humanity will find a way!

I wonder if talacaris’ ideal woman is one who is a highly paid professional that understands that she’s a dirty bitch, and that she only got her job because she’s a dirty bitch. No one comes to mind fortunately.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Yep, I think it was an Asimov project, actually. The visuals were what made it so trippy, though, more than the plot.

Moewicus
Moewicus
8 years ago

“When have mothers had to face systematic and virtually automatic loss of their children? In what society, in what time?”

Several stories have come out recently about how Cathloic hospitals have been involved in removing tens of thousands of children from their mothers at birth in countries such as Ireland, Australia, etc.. The mothers were usually single and were told that their children had died. Meanwhile the children were sent off goodness knows where. I can’t find an article to link to right now, but the answer to Antsy’s question is “the twentieth fucking century.”

talacaris
talacaris
8 years ago

War is peace, Ignorance is Strength, and we have always been at war with Eastasia.

Doubleplusgood!.Doublethink or report to Miniluv!

red_locker
8 years ago

“Certainly, feel free to improve.”

Uh…I meant that maybe you could clarify what you mean? I’m not quite feeling your word salad (more of a Caesar Salad person, myself).

Viscaria
Viscaria
8 years ago

Maybe he wants his very own Ashleybot. Birth control, yay! Working outside of the home, yay! Being entirely financially independent, yay! Having sex with multiple partners? Gross! Expects fidelity from her monogamous partner? Ewwwww!

red_locker
8 years ago

“I wonder if talacaris’ ideal woman is one who is a highly paid professional that understands that she’s a dirty bitch, and that she only got her job because she’s a dirty bitch. No one comes to mind fortunately.”

Sounds like a hell of a porno situation.

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth

Pecunium, I am not that conflicted (I am about buying a Ford now because they are major supporters of a group that caved and put women’s lives at risk.) I was a supporter of friends who did the race with my money-no more because if one gives in to the anti-choice bullies, it will never be enough.

Moewicus
Moewicus
8 years ago

“Cathloic” being the dyslexic arm of the Catholic church, of course.

Viscaria
Viscaria
8 years ago

Oh, and of course: requires informed consent for every sexual encounter? This is totally unreasonable real women wouldn’t care if I videotaped them without the knowledge.

Viscaria
Viscaria
8 years ago

Their* knowledge

talacaris
talacaris
8 years ago

I’m not sure what this is.

Is it some kind of squirrel

Silly.!!

working against possible gender stereotypes and discrimination without admitting that exists..

talacaris
talacaris
8 years ago

Uh…I meant that maybe you could clarify what you mean? I’m not quite feeling your word salad (more of a Caesar Salad person, myself).

(1)You read the quote from Solanas? She’s right.

(2)So we can conclude that to be compared to an animal is flattering for men and degrading for women. That is misandry.

(3) By insulting women in this way (2) is perpetuated. And yes, that is misandry.

Viscaria
Viscaria
8 years ago

What? No way buddy, squirrels totally exist! One ran over the roof above my bedroom and freaked me out early this morning.

Captain Bathrobe
Captain Bathrobe
8 years ago

You really can’t make AntZ up

Perhaps because he’s already a clown? No need for further makeup.

Captain Bathrobe
Captain Bathrobe
8 years ago

To be fair, single fathers would have to quality for social benefits that single mothers have access to.

Single fathers qualify for benefits in the same way that single mothers do. The eligibility criteria are not based on gender, but income and the number of dependents.

red_locker
8 years ago

“(1)You read the quote from Solanas? She’s right.

(2)So we can conclude that to be compared to an animal is flattering for men and degrading for women. That is misandry.

(3) By insulting women in this way (2) is perpetuated. And yes, that is misandry.”

O…k. And who was arguing against that?

Was that even the topic?

I know Manboobz gets derailed sometimes (often for benefit), but jeez.

Captain Bathrobe
Captain Bathrobe
8 years ago

(1)You read the quote from Solanas? She’s right.

(2)So we can conclude that to be compared to an animal is flattering for men and degrading for women. That is misandry.

(3) By insulting women in this way (2) is perpetuated. And yes, that is misandry.

I can haz logic?

No, not yours.

Captain Bathrobe
Captain Bathrobe
8 years ago

So, if I describe a woman as being “as graceful as a gazelle” what would that be? Or, if I refer to a man as “chicken,” am I therefore being misogynistic?

Shadow
Shadow
8 years ago

And yes, that is misandry.

HAHAHA! There’s no way that this isn’t a sock

Captain Bathrobe
Captain Bathrobe
8 years ago

To be even plainer: there’s nothing inherently negative about comparing someone to an animal. What matters is context. What’s insulting about “bitch” in particular is that it’s a gendered insult, like cunt, not that it’s comparing a woman to an animal, per se. I think Solanis’ point was that men are associated with animals in positive ways, whereas women are compared in negative ways. That’s misogyny. There’s nothing misandric about saying a man possesses the supposedly positive quality of particular animal. If that was true, being told that you were “hung like a horse” would be the height of misandry.

red_locker
8 years ago

“So, if I describe a woman as being “as graceful as a gazelle” what would that be? ”

Hey, now, animals are for MANLY MEN. THIS is how you hit on a girl,

“Mmm-m. Baby, you’re as smooth as an unboxed iMac with a Intel Core processor. Are up for an INstall?”

I am so sorry.

Pecunium
8 years ago

AntZ: The overly harsh legal penalties that are immorally used to punish fathers who lose their jobs and fall behind on child support ..

What overly harsh penalties? We’ve already showed you (in several of those non ad hominem comments you ignored) that the law doesn’t punish non-custodial parents who lose their jobs and fall behind.

So what are you talking about now?

Captain Bathrobe
Captain Bathrobe
8 years ago

“Mmm-m. Baby, you’re as smooth as an unboxed iMac with a Intel Core processor. Are up for an INstall?”

I wonder if there are extremely geeky circles where this approach might work.

Probably not.

Pecunium
8 years ago

PKFAE: I am less conflicted, now that I see some of what caused it. Somehow they let a lot of anti-choice women (who have caused Komen to, more quietly than this, pull back from really working on finding cures for breast cancer; because of anti-choice concerns).

But I do think this will hurt the cause of fighting breast cancer, and yes, I think rewarding bad behavior is bad, and letting them have a fig-leaf to cover their shameful behavior is not on. It’s why I told people to sign petitions. It’s why I told them my future money is going elsewhere.

At this point, until they clear the board, it’s staying elsewhere.

red_locker
8 years ago

“I wonder if there are extremely geeky circles where this approach might work.

Probably not.”

Hey, it was worth a shot.

It’s certainly more creative than the standard PUA stuff. 😀

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth

I wonder if there are extremely geeky circles where this approach might work.

I know I enjoy a guy explaining in mind-numbingly boring detail about that sort of thing during romantic dates.

talacaris
talacaris
8 years ago

I think Solanis’ point was that men are associated with animals in positive ways, whereas women are compared in negative ways

Yes, exactly.

And that is misandry. Note that the associations are often sexual. That is, men are thought to have an “animalistic” sexuality. I think i have seen somebody write here about men who can’t control themselves in the presence of women with more or less skimpy clothing. That is, men are less civilized than women are more like what animals are thought to be. And that is misandry

Pecunium
8 years ago

talacris: No. First, the guy saying that, is an anti-feminist.

Second, that men are compared favorable to animals, and women aren’t, isn’t misandry, it’s misogyny. And the associations are far from exclusively sexual:

Eagle-eyed.
Strong as an ox
Stubborn as a mule,
Gentle as a lamb
The heart of lion
Sly like a fox
Cunning as a weasel
Wise as an owl
Dresses like a peacock
Dog in the manger
A bellowing bull

None of those is specifically sexual.

And none of it is misandry,

talacaris
talacaris
8 years ago

should be: That is, men are less civilized than women, men are more like what animals are thought to be

Rutee Katreya
8 years ago

Christ, I’m getting tired of the constant claims of misandry as if it’s a common thing.

That is, men are less civilized than women are more like what animals are thought to be. And that is misandry

Not only is this a poorly charted sentence, men’s sexuality is generally considered a positive.

. I think i have seen somebody write here about men who can’t control themselves in the presence of women with more or less skimpy clothing

That’s the narrative htat underlies victim blaming. It’s part of what makes it so ridiculously hard to prosecute for rape, even if the evidence is that the guy did it, and it was rape. It benefits men substantially more than it hurts them.

Seriously, I am tired of this shit. Most of the ‘downsides’ that hit some men *still* benefit them collectively; that’s why they’re the privileged class.

Viscaria
Viscaria
8 years ago

I’m going to have to agree with Shadow and say Poe. Especially given talacaris’ earlier use of the MRA double-period.

Molly Ren
8 years ago

Ami, is that you? 😛

talacaris
talacaris
8 years ago

No. First, the guy saying that, is an anti-feminist

Does’t matter it’s just an example of an image of male sexuality that is “out there”.

And many examples on yuor list are pretty gender-neutral

PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth

At this point, until they clear the board, it’s staying elsewhere.

That is why I have such trouble deciding between rewarding Ford for not taking the bailout money when not needed and from punishing them for supporting such a gawdawful program that has decided on hurting women to appease others who enjoy hurting women.

talacaris
talacaris
8 years ago

That’s the narrative htat underlies victim blaming. It’s part of what makes it so ridiculously hard to prosecute for rape, even if the evidence is that the guy did it, and it was rape. It benefits men substantially more than it hurts them.

Seriously, I am tired of this shit. Most of the ‘downsides’ that hit some men *still* benefit them collectively; that’s why they’re the privileged class.

Exactly. And that is misandry.

Pecunium
8 years ago

Gender neutral?

No. It would be if the connotations were the same, but saying a woman is as strong as an Ox isn’t a compliment.

Nor is the fact that one can’t really find gender specific slurs… even the “sexualised” metaphors for men are laudatory.

But calling a woman a minx, isn’t, nor a bitch, nor a sow, nor a cow. Some insults (e.g. pig) are neutral, but they aren’t anywhere near as common.

Compare the sense behind, Stag Party, and Hen Party.

So keep fucking that chicken.

Rutee Katreya
8 years ago

Exactly. And that is misandry.

Oh, trolling, not stupid. Okay then

Rutee Katreya
8 years ago

Also, since you seem to think you’re actually good at trolling…

http://files.redux.com/images/ccd64dce0cd555719d85f69b9424d6c4/raw

Pecunium
8 years ago

I see, well then, we shall give it what it wants.

Kendra, the bionic mommy
Kendra, the bionic mommy
8 years ago

AntZ said

The overly harsh legal penalties that are immorally used to punish fathers who lose their jobs and fall behind on child support ..

.. would be very APPROPRIATE for any father or mother who accepted shared physical and then did not provide adequately for his or her children.

Basically, when you accept full shared, be prepared to expect a visit from CPS at any time (without warning). If your child is neglected, you better get a good lawyer.

Okay, we both agree that it is wrong for a parent to request a joint custody arrangement, but then fail to carry through on taking care of hir child during hir scheduled times (barring emergencies). I would say that in those situations, the parent should be ordered to pay child support to the other parent to make up for the costs of having the child extra time. A parent would have the choice to either care for the child half of the time, or give financial compensation to the custodial parent in the form of child support. I’m not going to support a parent’s choice to provide neither physical care nor money to hir own children, though.

Other people have addressed the issue, but I also want to reiterate that a parent who has fallen on hard times can have hir child support order modified. Here is a quote from Lawfirms.com

Downward adjustments may also be necessary if one parent experiences an involuntary loss of employment or becomes disabled. In this respect, however, it should be noted that voluntarily quitting a job cannot be used to justify a reduction in child support. Similarly, temporary periods of unemployment for parents who are seasonally employed are generally not considered unexpected, especially if the nature of this employment was taken into consideration when the amount of child support was originally determined.

You might want to go check out the link and read all of the information about child support modification orders. It might clear things up for you.

Dani Alexis
Dani Alexis
8 years ago

What chance does a father have of justice in such courts? What about cases where the mother does not have the strength of character to resist the temptation of money and power?

1. Pretty good, assuming he has an attorney. My parents’ attorneys worked together to push that custody agreement through, because it was what each of their clients wanted.

2. I asked my mother this question verbatim. Her response: laughter. Followed by “money and power had nothing to do with it. We were out to give you the best possible shot at life.”

(Actually, the judge didn’t want to give my mother “full physical [custody].” He – yes, he – wanted to give my father weekends, holidays, and summers, and give them both joint legal custody.)

As for “strength of character,” see my previous point: in order for shared custody to work, both parents have to be committed to doing what is best for the kid. If either parent isn’t committed to that, for “weakness of character” or any other reason, equal joint custody isn’t going to be in the best interests of the child.

Many of your fellow boobz brigadiers deny that there is prejudice in the family court system. Your example shows that this is not true.

I have yet to see anyone here say there is no prejudice in the family court system, in either direction, but I do skim sometimes so maybe I missed something. I certainly wouldn’t say there is no prejudice in family courts – I’ve been in them, ffs – but I would say that it’s not all “women get everything, men get shat on” as you so often say.

More important than the fact of prejudice in the family court system is the QUANTITY of prejudice in the family court system. Presumption of full physical to the mother runs so deep, all the way to the bone, that it is virtually impossible for a father to hope for justice or fairness.

Now you’re overstating your case. You’re also misconstruing the actual family law statutes in most states, which require custody decisions to be made in the best interests of the child. There are a couple dozen factors that play into deciding what the “best interests of the child” are, but one of them is which parent has done most of the actual work of parenting to date (the “primary caregiver”). For young children especially, this person is statistically more often the mother than the father.

Incidentally, one of my Personal Feminist Tenets is that evaluating what is in the best interests of the child needs to be de-coupled from our societal assumptions that women are inherently better parents. This might result, statistically, in more women still getting custody than men, since women are more often the primary caregivers. Or it might not – changing our assumptions might also change our views about which parent ought to be primary caregiver. Either way, a person’s ability to be a good parent has fuckall to do with which genitalia are hanging out in their pants, and we need to stop pretending that it does.

(Anecdote: my father was my primary caregiver for the first two years of my life, while my mother made all the money. They both got a lot of shit for that, but being feminists, they believed that they should divide the work of living according to who was best suited to and/or preferred what tasks, not according to which sex “traditionally” did a certain thing.)

Given that our children are, by far, the most important aspect of our lives, how can you deny that the prejudice faced by men is far, far, far, far greater than anything that women have ever experienced? When have mothers had to face systematic and virtually automatic loss of their children? In what society, in what time?

Just to cite a single example: in England, until the passage of the 1883 Married Women’s Property Act, a woman automatically lost custody of her children if she and their father divorced. This wasn’t a “presumption of which was the better caretaker” or a “best interests of the child” situation; this was a “you divorced their father and the children belong to him, not you, so you cannot legally ever see them again” situation. Women could not have custody of their children if they divorced the child’s father – unless Dad voluntarily abandoned them with her. (Even then, he technically still had legal custody, and he could get back physical custody whenever he wanted, just by showing up and taking the kids away.)

Voting rights? What a joke. What a total joke. Do you think there is one non-custodial father in America who would not give up his lifetime voting rights for just one more precious weekend with his children?

I’m confused. What did voting rights have to do with it again?

Also, I asked a friend of mine who is a non-custodial father in America if he would give up his right to vote for one weekend with his kids. He said “screw that.” So yes, there is at least one. I realize you’re probably overstating your case for dramatic effect, rather than for factual reference, but you’re not helping yourself by doing so. 😉

Finally, I’m still curious: that’s at least twice now you’ve specified this is about shared physical custody. Do you think legal custody should be shared as well?

talacaris
talacaris
8 years ago

Sorry that I couldn’t troll better, but I had to try, I was so bored with the current trolls. It was my first attempt at trolling. Maybe I should study for a Real Master in the A.rt

Rutee Katreya
8 years ago

I have yet to see anyone here say there is no prejudice in the family court system, in either direction, but I do skim sometimes so maybe I missed something. I certainly wouldn’t say there is no prejudice in family courts – I’ve been in them, ffs – but I would say that it’s not all “women get everything, men get shat on” as you so often say.

Heh. That’d be me. I tend to point out the rather difficult point that men win 50% of contested custody cases, which doesn’t actually engender me to an assumption that the courts are biased towards mothers (at least, in matters of custody). Bearing in mind that women tend to provide the majority of child rearing cases, I suspect there’s a (light) bias towards dads when cases actually roll around.

Mind, financially this says nothing.

Dani Alexis
Dani Alexis
8 years ago

When have mothers had to face systematic and virtually automatic loss of their children? In what society, in what time?

Also! Shaenon’s comment about her own ancestors reminded me: my own great-great grandmother was one of these women. My great-great grandfather walked out on her and her six children in 1902 to go marry a younger woman (as in, my gg-grandmother was 23 and the younger woman was 15). The wise and compassionate state of Ohio seized all six kids, including my 2-year-old great-grandfather, and put them in the county orphanage, because my great-great grandmother was deemed summarily “unfit” on account of having been abandoned by her husband. That’s “summarily” as in “no trial, no hearing, no opportunity to demonstrate that she could take care of the kids, no consideration for the fact that she had a job and could actually support them all if they lived thriftily – just ‘sorry, lady, you can’t have these anymore because you don’t have a husband.'”

She did eventually see most of her kids again, but not until they were near adulthood – my great-grandfather was 16 when he next saw his mother. He never blamed her, but he did blame his father, who could have provided for them but refused to.

So, yeah, there’s also a non-custodial father in America who wouldn’t have given a wooden nickel to see his kids ever again, as evidenced by the fact that he did not give so much as a wooden nickel to see his kids ever again. (He walked out on the 15-year-old after she gave birth, too, and AFAIK, he never saw that kid again at all, ever, nor contributed one red cent to that kid’s upbringing.)

Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
8 years ago

Rutee, you need to specify that statistic. When men “win custody”, what exactly do you mean- you mean primary custody? Or simply visiting rights? I would sure as hell hope that men win at least 50% of “visiting rights” cases, but it doesn’t speak to the fact that women are still awarded primary custody the vast majority of the time- even if contested.

Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
8 years ago

And if you do mean primary custody, I’m going to have to ask for a link, because that’s hard to swallow.