Here’s a little one-question quiz to see how much you know about Reddit’s Atheism subreddit.
QUESTION ONE: A woman describes being raped by a “friend” while both were intoxicated (though she doesn’t call it rape). Do the r/atheism regulars:
a) Respond with sympathy and support
b) Attack her and furiously downvote her posts, with the assistance of one of the moderators of r/mensrights, then return to posting and upvoting rape jokes
BONUS QUESTION: True or False: Someone on r/menrights links to her comment as “an example of how and why many people believe that rape is everywhere… because their definition of rape includes every sexual misadventure.” The most heavily upvoted comment in the r/mensrights thread declares that the woman who was raped “sounds like a delusional sheltered teen.”
Yes, the correct answers here are the ones you assumed were correct.
Here’s the woman’s post describing what happened to her.
She gives more details on what happened in other, also-highly-downvoted comments.
One highly upvoted rape joke from elsewhere in the thread:
Hilarious!
Amazingly, despite all the jokes and the victim blaming/attacking going on, the thread also contains some highly upvoted comments lamenting the tendency of people to blame the victim in rape cases. Apparently, when a rape victim is drunk, it’s not rape, even when she repeatedly says “no” and gives in because she’s scared, so it’s fine to attack away, and even to accuse the victim of being a rapist too.
This enables Reddit Atheists not only to blame the victim of rape without feeling guilty, or admitting that this is what they’re doing, while simultaneously feeling self-righteous in their condemnation of religious people doing the exact same thing.
And because their rape jokes are also couched as jokes about religious people’s views on rape, they can feel self-righteous while making them too.
Sometimes the actions of Reddit Atheists cause me to begin to doubt just a teensy weensey bit that “atheists are a community that’s pre-selected for clear thinking and empiricism,” as one commenter in r/mensrights put it not that long ago.
EDITED TO ADD: Thanks again to ShitRedditSays for highlighting this awful thread.
EDITED TO ADD 2: More SRS discussion, courtesy of Holly.
If there’s any question, don’t. There. Non-violent rape cases averted. One of the simplest things you can do in the world, yet this is somehow too much to ask from men?
@Shadow
there are things I’ve wanted to say to the trolls that would probably have gotten me banned. Or karma (if karma even exists) would bite me in the ass if I did lol.
@PFKAE
I’m not into S&M but I’d imagine a massage or soaking in seaweed would be nice after being chained or tied up in strange positions lol
Generally, yes. The difference between you and us is that we don’t think that’s a positive thing.
Also about the whole atheist thing…some of the ones I’ve come across online are smug and self righteous and think they’re so much smarter, yet they’re still prone to the same sexist bullshit that some religious people are. Except atheists don’t use the bible to justify sexism or female inferiority, they’ll use science instead.
Good to know that there is no equal footing for women in religion or atheism. Maybe that’s part of why I haven’t really decided what I believe in regarding God. I guess the closest I can describe myself is agnostic.
The whole “if he’s drinking too she’s just as guilty” line, if applied to, say DWI, would mean that drunk pedestrians hit by drunk drivers would also have to be charged with a crime.
“Stop getting in the way of that nice drunk’s car!”
Stuff like this Reddit nonsense is a big part of why I’m not involved in any online atheist communities. Though I do read the crap out of Greta Christina’s and Rebecca Watson’s blogs.
NWO, one comment and a flounce?
You’re not even trying any more. But don’t think you can rest on your Troll of the Year laurels. DKM is still around, and an enigmatic up-and-comer called Explore Nature is nipping at your heels.
Just another horrible example from r/Atheist. Not surprising since Rebecca Watson already covered this kind of vileness when that teenager got bombarded with rape jokes and threats because she posted on r/Atheist. You couldn’t pay me to visit those boards.
EN’s blog is creeping me out in all sorts of ways.
I do agree that beaches are pretty ok, though, so that’s something.
Explore Nature can’t win as long as he’s hit and run. He needs to engage, or he’s not really in the running. But I agree, NWO has to up his game to win this next round.
@Russell Wain Glasser
The ACA’s tone and demeanor is a large part of why I became an atheist activist back in college. I have always been impressed with how your group has handled things. Especially the Matt-in-drag episode. I also appreciate that you have acknowledged a problem. Just getting that much done is like pulling teeth sometimes. I do wish that certain other atheists were not giving the movement as a whole a bad name, in regard to sexism. That is why I am not currently involved in any atheist groups. I have become nervous about the kind of reception I could expect.
Yeah, that was basically what happened in my case. I was drunk, he was drunk, he did something unexpected and I was too out of it and shocked to say “no”. It was still rape, though. I wasn’t consenting. The second time, I was blacked out – apparently still conscious, but I don’t remember any of the night at all. I was not sober enough to consent to anything.
One of my irritations with some of the atheist communities I used to participate in was that they didn’t really seem to see things in shades of gray. Yes, I should have said “no” to clearly indicate my lack of consent. But I was so scared and so overwhelmed that I literally couldn’t speak. That doesn’t make it not-rape. That makes it a difficult situation, but it doesn’t invalidate the rape. Not all atheist communities are so opposed to gray areas, of course, but I seemed to keep finding them.
Clearly, Reddit atheists were put on this earth by Satan to test true atheists’ non-faith.
I made a real life D: face when I read that ‘if women don’t want to get raped’ comment
D: D: D: I think my face is going to stay like this all day
captainbathrobe: the problem here is that if you’re male and too drunk to say no, then it’s still rape of her so long as she’s drunk too even if she comes on to you and you say no. Men are held by women to standards of consent that the women themselves don’t have to meet. The women seem to benefit from this, and for the most part they’ve actively rejected any attempts to hold them to the same standards. What’s more, while in this case the poster in question did say no, she’s relying on an attitude towards rape in which what’s relevant isn’t her “no” but the contents of her pants.
ozymandias42: have you seen any evidence of “rape by intoxication” being applied in heterosexual sex when it’s the man who’s passing in and out of conciousness? Probably not, because it doesn’t even make sense without the unspoken “women only” qualifier – what happens when both parties are drunk, for example?
@makonk
People here have been over and over about this:
-If two people are drunk and one of them doesn’t want to have sex, it’s rape. The gender does not matter;
-If two people are drunk and they both want to have sex, it’s not rape;
-If a woman takes advantage of a man being drunk, it’s rape;
-Women raping men is a BAD thing;
-The current definition of rape, coupled with rigid gender boxes makes it hard for people to believe men have been raped. This is also a BAD thing.
-Everyone here, women, men and genderqueer alike, want to make it so that rape is ALWAYS viewed as a bad thing, regardless of the gender of the participants.
I meant makomk, sorry.
Do feminists understand that most men, and all MRAs, will refuse to recognize “rape culture” until feminists recognize “shades of gray” in punishment?
MRAs can’t accept millions of young men’s lives thown to waste because every sexual misandventure that results in some level of non-consent is punished with a 20 year prison sentence.
Here is how I responded to a Men’s Rights Reddit report about an adult woman who raped a 13 year old child:
“I was 13 when it happened to me. I did not date or talk to women until I was 19. When my wife was pregnant with my 2nd son, I had almost continuous nightmares (every single night) re-living the assault — and I was 41 years old.
It stays with you for life. It comes back when you least expect it.
However, I have lived a full and happy life. I wound never condemn a perpetrator to more than 3 years, out in 1 with full compliance, 5 on registry for simple non-consent with no additional violence or harm. This is over done, barbaric, and fundamentally un-just.
Frankly, this is the kind of anger-based sentence that I expect from feminists. I am embarrassed than an MRA judge would do this. Embarrassed and angry. What kind of movement are we becoming?”
If feminists want to make any progress on “rape culture”, you are going to have to demonstrate that you understand that there is a vast gray zone where the victim experiences rape, but the perpetrator is either mostly non-culpable, completely non-culpable, or (in some cases) also a victim.
The reason AppleGods faced so much hostility from MRAs is that most men live in fear that they could wind up wrongly accused of rape because they unintentionally over-played their assigned role as “sexual persuer” after mis-interpreting signals from the “sexual persued”. Until you understand what I meant by that last sentence, you don’t understand shit.
I forgot to mention that the adult woman was sentenced to 30 years in prison and life on registry for raping the 13 year old boy. I think a fair punisment would be 3 year sentence, 1 year served with good time, 2 years probation, and 5 years on the registry.
I just wanna say as a scientist involved in actually exploring nature, than EN is gonna get dinged by reviewers if he tries to publish any of his drivel.
And as an atheist, I have to say that deciding to call myself an atheist rather than an agnostic was delayed by years because of the fact that I was then going to have to be associated with some of the most sanctimonious, preening assholes on the interwebs.
Who simultaneously think they’re smarter than whoever they’re talking to, yet think “I’m smart, therefore I’m right” a) makes any sense, b) is clever, and c) is so original that they should take a few victory laps to congratulate themselves for inventing it.
Reminds me of some of our resident trolls.
So hi AZ, what would be a fair sentence for making a false rape accusation? Show your work. Remember to define “fair”.
@Anthony Zarat
SHE RAPED A 13-YEAR OLD BOY YOU FUCKER! I HARDLY THINK SHE WAS
30 years might have been excessive, and there are several problems with the prison system that need to be addressed, but you don’t just give someone that RAPES A CHILD a slap on the wrist, fuck.
makomk: I am unaware of statistics on the matter, but I understand that it is unlikely to be used in favor of male rape survivors, and that’s a BAD THING.
And, um, perhaps I am being a stupid straightedge person, but if two people were passing in and out of consciousness, I’m pretty sure they’re not going to have sex, so the whole “who’s raping whom” thing is moot.
@ Anthony Zarat
How are you today? Why don’t you tell everyone about the brave blow you struck for the MRM, you know, when you reacted suddenly and hysterically to a young woman in a chemist commenting on your child?
You said you frightened her, didn’t you Anthony?
It was a lie, though, wasn’t it Anthony? It didn’t happen. You claimed it so that you could appear to be an MRA solider fighting a gender war, didn’t you Anthony?
The truth is, you’re unmarried, you don’t have kids and you’re so very frightened of women. They make you nervous. The story you told was a fantasy that you had.
You’re a fraud, Anthony. A fraud. And the more you write on these threads, the stupider you appear.
I’m just a tiny little bit horrified that your idea of a fair sentence for raping a 13 year old is 1 year in prison for good behaviour…
I mean jesusfuck AntZ, I’d like to think I’m not in favour of draconian prison sentences but that’s just worrying.
Wow Zarat, you really don’t give a fuck about men or boys at all do you? You just called a 30-year-old who raped a 13-year-old a “victim”. How you do sleep at night?
And dude, seriously? “We’re not gonna acknowledge rape culture until you admit rapists are victims!” What the fuck? Do you think is a game?