Just another day on r/mensrights, dealing with the terrible injustices facing men today in a thoughtful and compassionate way.
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We Hunted The MammothBucking the Backlash
We Hunted The MammothJust another day on r/mensrights, dealing with the terrible injustices facing men today in a thoughtful and compassionate way.
But he can talk about himself! He can talk about himself all the time! He can write books about himself! He just can’t do it here. So… why is he here?
Because he can’t let go. xD The idea of him leaving and everybody mocking him behind his back is not something his personality can tolerate…
Huh. Fair enough. Dear Brandon: if you stay here, we will make fun of you. If you leave, we will probably continue to make fun of you for a little while, and then forget about you. If not being made fun of is your goal, leaving is probably your best bet.
Random rhetorical comment: A lot of beginning college writers who are trying to avoid using “I” in their essays will use “you” (which is actually worse, being more informal, direct address to reader, and assumes that writer can speak for person being addressed) when they are really talking about themselves. (Not every use of ‘you’ s that of course). But it is quite clear when they are trying to avoid first person, trying to work to learn to make more general observations, but haven’t yet learned, and fall into the YOU trap.
For example: you can notice somebody doing that very thing in this thread!
Brandon, in some places the minimum drinking age is 21. Anyone under the age of 21 is considered underage, or a minor. I know the age is set arbitrarily, and other countries have different minimum ages. I don’t see anything wrong with setting the minimum age at 21. If someone isn’t old enough to drink, zie probably isn’t old enough to decide to be a sex worker.
If you want to know the minimum drinking age for other countries, use google.
@Kendra: Umm…no. People that are 18-20 (at least in the US and Canada) are still considered adults. They are not minors. “Underage” does not automatically make someone a minor. Anyone between the ages of 18 to 34 is underage to be POTUS but they are not minors.
Saying that 21 year olds aren’t old enough to be sex workers is your opinion. The commenters on that thread were at best advocating the age be set to 18 just like every other right, privilege and obligation that comes with being an adult with the exception of drinking.
So trying to weasel in underage girls into this discussion just makes you look biased.
This, my comrades in arms, is TRUE MISANDRY!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/30/mandatory-ultrasound-bill-virginia-anti-abortion_n_1242627.html?ref=tw&ncid=edlinkusaolp00000008
Janet Howell (D) Virginia says if women have to get ultrasound before an abortion, men have to get rectal exam and cardiac stress test before getting their erectile dysfunction medication.
GENDER EQUALITY!
I plan to seek her site out and donate $$$$$$$$$$$$$!
MISANDRY 4EVAH!
Brandon, my driver’s license had the word MINOR printed on it until I was 21. In the US,if a person under the age of 21 with alcohol gets caught by the police, zie is charged with a Minor in Possession. In the state of Mississippi, the age of 21 is the age of majority for everything else, not just possession of alcohol. This is from the Mississippi Age of Majority Laws.
from Mississippi state law on who is considered a minor
Yes, I am biased in favor of keeping the minimum age on the high end for sex work. I don’t care if MRA’s think that’s misandry. They don’t have to hire teenage sex workers. They can hire older ones and be just fine. If they can’t tell by looking how old a sex worker is, they can either abstain or ask to see an ID. Boo hoo if that’s too much trouble for the poor MRA’s.
It’s not weasely of me to use the terms ‘underage’ and ‘minor’ to describe people under the age of 21. I’m just using the same words used by US laws.
@ithiliana: At the very least Janet Howell is a childish twit that didn’t learn that “two wrongs don’t make a right” when she was an actual child. It is like her thinking was “Oh we don’t like this law. So instead of fighting it and improving women’s lives, let’s just make another bad law against all men (even the ones that support my position). Let’s not make improvements to everyone’s lives…lets make sure they suffer just as much as we do”. Instead of fighting for women’s rights she is fighting to force men to do something they might not want to do. That makes her the quintessential example of a feminist.
Because the vast majority of the time they are?
One of my teachers in high school said one was not supposed to use the word “I” in any essay which meant I never used it even when it was an essay talking about myself. That led to some seriously awkward phrasing. 😀
Brandon, why you not know law? Oh wait, cuz of BRANDON. Also, it seems that society has more benefits from keeping the age higher for sex workers than it does in lowering the age. MRA’s want to get their hands on teenagers for money is not a strong enough valid societal reason to lower it.
@Kendra: That is just silly. The link that you provided only discusses “adult” and “minor” in the context of transferring trusts. It says nothing of voting, drinking, conscription, being tried as an adult vs tried as a juvenile, etc…
The paragraphs above and below what you quoted proceed to make exemptions for a few things such as entering into contracts and being the executor of a trust.
The state/country’s age of majority law is what determines the delineation between childhood and adulthood. There are a few exceptions: age of consent, concealed carry laws and drinking alcohol are just three.
Plus, let’s be realistic here. Most people don’t actually hold the view that a 19 year old is a minor. You picking an article trying to make a claim that a 19 year old is a minor is just amusing. You are grasping for straws. Just admit that the OP, the reddit thread and it’s commenters made no remarks advocating lowering the age of women becoming prostitutes below the age of majority (or the age of consent for that matter).
@Elizabeth: If you are old enough to vote for your leaders, take full responsibility for committing a crime and be sent to war in the name of your country…you are old enough to choose to be a sex worker.
@Elizabeth: They might look unhealthy to you. Relationships are about mutual agreement. A relationship isn’t classified healthy because you could substitute yourself and say “I would enjoy being in this relationship”.
In Ireland the legal age to drink is 18. But I think we have to be 21 to gamble. I think.
So… Saying that 21-year-olds aren’t old enough to be sex workers is just an opinion, but saying that 18-year-olds ARE old enough to be sex workers is an objective statement of fact? Right. Brandon’s grasp of “logic” never ceases to amaze.
In the US, the minimum gambling age is 21 in most states that allow gambling. Then you have Maine, where the minimum age to gamble in a casino is 16, but to buy a lottery ticket, you need to be 18. (Source)
Anyway, what’s with these guys hyperventilating about 21 being too damned high for minimum age to do sex work? What, is there an acute shortage of adolescent-looking sex workers?
Brandon: . Starting a sentence with “all men” or “all women” pretty much guarantees that that sentence will be incorrect.
And the MRM/PUA/Ev-Psych Crowd (the guys you are defending) are the one’s who are saying that.
Why do you feel the need to assume those relationships are unhealthy at first glance?
Why do you feel the need to put words in my mouth, i.e. make a strawman. Here, I’ll help you out: I’ll repeat what I said, so you can actually try to engage with my arguments, instead of the fanciful nonsense you are pretending I said.
I’ve got nothing against age gaps, per se. I’ve had several lovers who were more than a decade my junior. I’ve had several who were more than a decade my senior (a couple who were two decades my senior). The issue is who they are fucking, but why.
This, of course, is usually where your logic breaks down. You don’t seem to understand the difference between the what, and the why.
So, no, I don’t assume any such relationship is unhealthy. What I do see is a theory of relationships, as espoused by the PUA/EvPsych/MRM, which isn’t, at it’s core, based on a healthy paradigm. They aren’t saying people who have interests in common, a shared worldview, and a mutual attraction should get together. No, they are saying men are hardwired to like “young chicks” and “young chicks” are hardwired to like dudes with money.
So, what’s your vested inteterest in prostitution (that institution which you said was too icky for you to avail yourself of) being legalised down to the age of 16?
I”m sorry, on review I see I made a mistake in typing the original, and someone who was reading in a serious hurry (or with an agenda) might have mistaken it for something it wasn’t.
I meant to say (which ought to have been obvious), “It isn’t who they are fucking”.
If that was what caused you to misunderstand the core of my argument, I apologise.
Brandon’s vested interest, like most of his previous “vested interests”, seem to me like it derives from the fact that someone is saying he can’t do something. He may not even particularly want to do that something, but once you say he can’t do it, all of a sudden he’s got an interest.
Brandon, let’s look at this from another angle. In Texas, a high school teacher was arrested for having sex with an 18 year old student. The age of consent in TX is 17, but there is an exception for teacher/student relationships. The reason for this is to protect students from the power imbalance that occurs in teacher/student relationships. A grand jury did not indict her. However, she did lose her teaching license. source
Sex work can also have power imbalances between the sex worker and the client, especially if the sex worker is much younger than the client. This is why there are minimum ages for sex work, at least in places where sex work is either legal or decriminalized.
Brandon, first you said,
I showed you the Mississippi state laws that prove that people under the age of 21 are considered minors, and are under the age of majority. Then you said
I gave you a clear example of US laws calling people under the age of 21 minors. Then you said that’s not good enough because it was a law dealing with trusts and not about voting and conscription. You also ignored the fact that an underage person person caught with alcohol is charged with a minor in possession. I’m not grasping at straws. I’m giving you proof for my claims while you move the goalposts.
I’ve already told you that the reason for a minimum age of 21 for sex work is because there can be power imbalances between sex workers and their clients. I showed you the criminal case of the TX woman who was arrested for having sex with an 18 year old boy, because she was his teacher and he was a student. Under normal circumstances, it’s legal for a 25 year old to sleep with an 18 year old in TX. However, if there is a student/teacher relationship between the two, it is illegal. (This does not apply in colleges and universities, though, just for K-12 levels.) The TX government made that law to protect 17 and 18 year old students from teacher/student power imbalances even though the age of consent is only 17.
@Kendra: We can also talk about Puerto Rico, Nebraska and Pennsylvania. They all have different age of majority laws (19-21yo). However all other states have an age of majority set at 18. So that is 47 out of 50 states that count 18-20 year olds as adults and not minors. Clearly the majority of the US treats 18-20 year olds as adults.
You are still grasping for straws because you are trying to use the exception to the rule to disprove the actual rule. In 47 states you are considered an adult once you turn 18.
“Minor in possession” is a misnomer. The proper, more accurate term would be “Underage person in possession”. But law officials probably inaccurately use “minor” for brevity since using “underage person” is cumbersome.
Is there some connection between student/teacher relationships and prostitute/customer relationships? Granted, since prostitution is illegal in most parts of the world, there is the problem with coercion (because prostitutes can’t get legal protection). If prostitution was legal then those issues would be greatly reduced. If both parties are willingly participating, what possible power imbalances could arise between an 18 year old prostitute and a 45 year old customer that wouldn’t arise if we changed the age of the prostitute to 21?
@Pecunium: The questions I asked came from this paragraph you wrote:
“Brandon, the argument isn’t that older/younger relations are, ispo facto wrong. It’s that the idea that older men are somehow inherently attractive to younger women and the relationships are, prima facie healthy is suspect.”
Now maybe you can clarify what you mean. Are you saying that you personally see it as suspect or that society as a whole does?
Again, All men aren’t going to inherently see younger women as more attractive (men do have fetishes for older women). However, a sizable chunk of men see younger women as more attractive than older women. It also cuts across race. (e.g Zoe Saldana vs Martha Stewart poll. Most likely Zoe would win.)