My eyes are all dialated from an eye exam, but even through a blurry haze I can tell this guy is kind of a toolbag. Here’s The Rational Male on why the ladies totally don’t appreciate all that dudes do for them, like for example, not having sex with other ladies when they totally probably could have.
I think what most men uniquely deceive themselves of is that they will ultimately be appreciated by women for their sacrifices. … You can’t be because women fundamentally lack the ability to fully realize, much less appreciate the sacrifices a man makes to facilitate her reality. … Men making the personal sacrifices necessary to honor, respect and love her are commonplace. You’re supposed to do those things. You sacrificed your ambitions and potential to provide her with a better life? You were supposed to. You resisted temptation and didn’t cheat on your wife with the hot secretary who was DTF and ready to go?
Ladies totally don’t appreciate that shit. Seriously, gals, it takes a lot of willpower for us to keep from going around sticking our penises in other ladies. You should probably bake us all cakes, or something.
The worst offenders? Women 40 and over.
[A]ssume for a moment that a 40 y.o. Man with the options to pursue younger women “does the right thing” and seeks out a relationship with a woman his own age. Would he be appreciated for essentially giving an aged woman a new lease on life? Or would he be viewed as doing what is to be expected of him?
Seriously, women over 40 are practically senior citizens. Even talking to them is a gigantic sacrifice for a guy who imagines he might possibly be able to cajole a drunk 27 year old into bed for a night of deeply unsatisfying sex with him.
It’s best to remind the fortysomething hags what a giant favor you’re doing them while you are actually, you know, doing them. In the “having sex with them” sense, if you catch my drift.
“Aw yeah, baby, you saw that waitress totally smiling at me earlier. I think she’d probably do me. You’re lucky I even gave your old ass a second look!”
Repeat this until she hates herself. That sort of thing is what makes for spectacular sex.
It’s no wonder he calls himself The Rational Man.
Didn’t we discuss the NIPSVS a bit back and come to the conclusion that they were wrong in not considering envelopment to be rape? I seem to remember lots of people making strong comments supporting changes to the law making that very clear. I don’t remember a single commenter suggesting otherwise. I’d go back and hunt for them but it’s 2am here and I don’t feel like looking it up.
ANTZ: you obviously feel strongly about this, so what have you done about it? I mean apart from ranting here.
I’ve spent a lot of time counseling rape victims of both sexes (and yes, I most certainly do consider envelopment to be rape) and been involved in setting up men’s shelters. Tell me about your experiences with this kind of work. Assuming you aren’t all misogynistic hatred and hot air. Come on “MRA warrior” what have you actually done to help abused men in the real world, rather than venting your spleen online?
@Happy/Sara
I realize that my best effort falls short of your expectations. It also falls far short of my own hopes.
It is not what I wanted to do. It is the best that I was able to do.
“I can’t advertise, or I will attract people like you.”
You won’t, you know. There’s a notable lack of feminists trolling MRA blogs in the way that you guys troll our blogs. It’s just not something that most of us have any interest in doing.
“You won’t, you know. There’s a notable lack of feminists trolling MRA blogs in the way that you guys troll our blogs.”
What you say has turned out to be partly true. I wanted to begin this project for a very long time. What held me back was the thought of invasion by angry feminists. This has been a much smaller problem than I thought it would be.
Don’t take it as a compliment. We don’t get too many trolls, but I was surprised by the intensity of the effort to have our group shut down by the administration.
So basically it’s totally open to any male rape survivor who happens to stumble across some group with a really misogynist name and go “that sounds like a safe space for me!”
That’s a real service you’re providing there.
@So basically it’s totally open to any male rape survivor who happens to stumble across some group with a really misogynist name and go “that sounds like a safe space for me!”
Its mostly family court survivors. A few military types. Some second wives. What did you expect?
“Family court survivors?”
Oh for fuck’s fucking sake. And you wonder why no one takes you seriously.
It certainly sounds like you’re doing a lot to help men who are victims of rape and sexual assault and to raise awareness about the importance of this crime. What were the group’s thoughts on the last good Val Kilmer movie? To me, Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, hands down.
And now, I’m really out for a while. I’m helping two men who saw a real need for services for young men in their community and created an organization designed to meet those needs. It’s nothing as important as internet “safe-space” that addresses gender issues a whopping 10% of the time… but what can you do?
Someone has to actually care about helping men.
” … you wonder why no one takes you seriously …”
When I compare their stories to my own, I often find myself feeling lucky. “Family court survivors” is a very appropriate term. I don’t expect you to understand.
The fact that no one is trolling your pet project in terms of “angry feminists” is neither a compliment nor a surprise. We don’t do that kind of thing, in general. You expected it because you’re paranoid, and have an unrealistic view of how feminists operate.
“So basically it’s totally open to any male rape survivor who happens to stumble across some group with a really misogynist name and go “that sounds like a safe space for me!” ”
Actually my question would be, how useful is it to men who’ve been raped (or molested as children) by other men? There are a lot of them, and they are certainly in need of support groups. I can’t imagine that they’d see a name designed to communicate anger at women and think, oh hey, I should check that place out.
@ Anthony Zarat
In your paranoid fantasies about Big Daddy Govt, who tried to shut you down?
Zarat started a yahoo group type of thing.
What a saint.
Zarat what have you done in the real world besides nothing?
ANtZ:
“@Happy/Sara
I realize that my best effort falls short of your expectations. It also falls far short of my own hopes.
It is not what I wanted to do. It is the best that I was able to do.”
This is actually not the issue. The issue is that we, as feminists, also work with and help men in real and tangible ways. We actually do care about them and have created the means of reaching them. And yet you call us man haters. We work mainly with women, it’s true but we also work for and with men and we do so because all human being have bad shit happen to them and all people are equally important. We find it ironic that feminists do more for distressed men in practical terms than most MRAs, who seem to spend most of their time complaining about feminists but seem to do very little to actually help other men when the chips are down.
Ultimately, however, looking after men, in many cases is most effectively done by men and yet there seem to be very few MRAs who will roll up their sleeves and do the work, rather than trying to shut down the people who are actually prepared to help.
On topic, does this mean that Salma Hayek should be grateful if I deign to sleep with her? ‘Cause I’d be willing to take one for the team here. Just sayin’.
However casual sex is another option when women do not like to take family responsibilities.
To which EN says shipping women who have casual sex to brothels is the thing to do.
Back off, captainbathrobe. As a woman who could of course exploit a pitiful beta in my quest for free bonbons, my sacrifice in hooking up with Salma Hayek would be far greater than yours. Think of the health of my soul – how else am I going to get into MRA Heaven?
@ Anthony Zarat
Please comment on what is written on AVfM, I just had a look at it.
Readers are advised to avoid becoming involved with single mothers as their children might “falsley accuse” them of molestation in order to get some “local celebrity”.
Do you suggest that victims of abuse might have invented their allegation ot get local celebrity?
Is it only women who lie about being sexually abused?
Ah yes…the myth that every man is worked to death just to supply his woman with fabulous amounts of wealth and status, only to be denied his rightful amount of worshipful sex. Its not like women hold jobs, or pay bills too or leave their careers to raise a family. Its not like he had any choice in the number of children to support, whether he got married or that during the courtship period could negotiate who would be responsible for the various duties involved in maintaining a household. He certainly completely lacked the ability to negotiate a fair and reasonable household financial plan that distributed financial responsibility in a sane and balanced way. Those poor men. So completely out of touch with their needs because apparently their mothers never taught them to talk.
Speaking as a woman of 38 years, with a significantly older partner… I’m certain that my beloved appreciates my looks. When I met him for our first date his jaw dropped. I’m moderately attractive, but
apparently it works for him. Did I mind knowing right off the bat that he found me hot? Not at all. However, in that first date, it became quite clear that he was also evaluating me for my maturity, intelligence and values as well as getting to know what I thought on various topics. In other words, it was clear that he was looking for an equal, someone he could respect as a PERSON and who would value him as a PERSON. I don’t think he would have turned me down for a more casual relationship or a one night stand, but even then, he has standards about what type of person he will sleep with. There needs to be some level of respect between both parties and clear consent by both parties.
Does anyone in the MRA PUA not find it icky to date women young enough to be in the same peer groups as their daughters icky? I can look at younger men and notice that they are attractive, but sleeping with them? Um no.
I think it’s funny when AntZ talks like a comic book character. It makes me want to say, “Evildoers will soon know that crime does not pay in Gotham City!”
Are the second wives there to complain that their husbands have to pay child support for the children from their previous marriages? They should have known that their husbands would still have obligations and responsibilities for their own children.
So many bottles of brain bleach go into ensuring that that knowledge does not turn into nightmare fodder for me.
“I think it’s funny when AntZ talks like a comic book character. It makes me want to say, “Evildoers will soon know that crime does not pay in Gotham City!”
Ooh, can we play “which Batman villain is Antz”?
Kendra – I’m guessing the second wives are the ones whose romance involved many repetitions of the phrase “you’re not like all those other women.”
Kilo: There is a broad philosophy of feminism: Women are people too, and entitled to be treated as the equals of men.
So there is an orthodoxy. One can measure people against it. Eurosabra has said something quite different. His argument seems to be, “There is no set of “Rules” to which PUA adhere, but no “Real PUA” would do these awful things (and this is all ancient history; except when it isn’t, because this case in Israel where a guy raped someone and said it was Game got lots of protests (which could totes have been PUA’s who were pissed off at his being stupid and broadcasting it, but I don’t know and BTW, no one knows or cares about Game, so it’s no big deal anyway).
So to say, 1: There is no movement. 2: There are no orthodoxies. 3: These guys who say they are PUA aren’t REAL PUA, because that’s not what PUA is all about, is logically inconsistent.
When confronted with inconvenient facts, why is it that feminists reply with personal attacks?
This from Mr. “Bigot”? They guy who, when presented with women (and men) who say that rape = non-consent, no matter who the nonconsensual person is; using that data (and agreeing with him that the FBI statistical definition is wrong) complains because… we still disagree with his conclusions; and explaining why his methodology is wrong.
Complains not by rebutting the claims about is methodology, but saying, “you just don’t want to admit I’m right.”
How, by the way, is the Great Division Along The Mississippi going?
How goes the campaign for VR sexiness to replace your wife progressing?
Are you going to attend the Anti-Misandry Rally in DC?
Pecunium – I’d accept the “no true PUA” argument if someone could point me to any PUA guru who didn’t base his arguments in sexism. I don’t need to know that they’re “mainstream,” but it would help if they existed.
The best I’ve seen is still a kind of paternalistic quasi-benevolent sexism, where you’re supposed to “leave her better than you found her!”, which is nicer than “make the ho say no,” I guess, but really just means that women are valued objects to be treated nicely–we’re still objects.