Categories
$MONEY$ antifeminism asian fetishist creepy evil women lying liars men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny MRA oppressed white men patriarchy pussy cartel racism rapey reactionary bullshit reddit

Upvoted on Reddit: “The problems in the sex [tourism] industry are mostly women’s fault.”

Today in Did That Really Get 196 Upvotes on Reddit: A Redditor claiming to be the owner of a brothel in Thailand explains how what he euphemistically calls the “problems in the sex industry” are mostly the fault of evil, lazy whores. Literally.

Let’s join the discussion already in progress. (ChaChaKrahp is the alleged brothel owner.)

A little further on in the discussion he makes this charming claim:

According to him, sex trafficking isn’t really a big issue, but when it does occur it  “is more likely to victimize men” than women. (The main victims in his mind being trafficked men (by which I assume he means transwomen)  … and male sex tourists.)

Those poor, poor Western sex tourists, suffering so at the hands of women and girls who’ve been kidnapped and sold into sex slavery!

But let’s just put this whole “trafficking” thing out of our heads. As ChaChaKrahp explains it, prostitution in Thailand is just a way for lazy ladies to make money. It’s totally on the up and up – “[j]ust like college girls in the US that work as strippers for $300 per night instead of picking strawberries for $50 per day.”

The only real problem is all those evil ladies ripping off dudes.

Did that last bit sound a little … MRAish to you?

Though this discussion isn’t in the Men’s Rights subreddit., ChaChaKrahp shares a lot of opinions and obsessions with the MRA crowd, peppering the discussion with MRA talking points on everything from dangerous jobs and breast cancer funding to  false rape accusations and paternity fraud. While he claims not to “give a shit about MRA groups,” he links to prominent Father’s Rights site fathersandfamilies.com, and rails endlessly about the evils of feminism. He walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.

While ChaChaKrahp seems quite sincere in his beliefs, this is the Internet, and so there’s a chance that this “brothel owner” is not actually a brothel owner at all, just some dude making this all up for Reddit karma points and lulz.

Even if that’s the case, we still have all those hundreds of Redditors who read his comments and happily upvoted them, either because they thought what he said was sensible or true, or because the thought of owning a brothel in Thailand gave them boners.

The question remains: does Reddit attract the worst representatives of those in its heavily young, male, geek demographic, or is this how most of these (mostly) guys really think — even if they don’t usually say so out loud?

(Thanks to ShitRedditSays for pointing me to this lovely thread.)

EDITED TO ADD: Brothel Owner under attack (by a few people)! Send in the r/mensrights upvote brigade to upvote him even more than he’s already being upvoted!!!

 

Subscribe
Notify of
guest

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

644 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Lauralot
Lauralot
9 years ago

Kate: The videos I most recently posted were Kylie Minogue’s “Better the Devil You Know,” Lady Gaga’s live performance of “Speechless” at the Vevo Launch, and Natalie Portman’s SNL Digital Short rap.

Dracula
Dracula
9 years ago

Mine:

Gary Numan – Cars

Simone et Pop-Hip – Trop Bonne Pour Toi

Violent Femmes – Color Me Once

The Damned – I Think I’m Wonderful

The Magnetic Fields – Love is Like a Bottle of Gin

The Dresden Dolls – Girl Anachronism

shaenon
9 years ago

mral thinks women being murdered is kinda meh, and women dying in an accident is a gift from god, but thinks fictional men dying in movies is the worst thing that has ever happened in the entire universe. Sounds like somebody has some double standards XD

Oh, man, his posts on Schwyzer earlier in the thread. The attempted murder doesn’t even register. He’s like, whatever, sometimes you go on a bender and do crazy shit, and maybe you kill one of those things that are kind of human-shaped except they have boobs, what’s the big deal? It’s not like a person would get hurt, right?

Then he’s back to whining about how great women are treated, with no apparent sense of irony. I just read this whole thread in one sitting, and I’ve never been so close to physically punching the screen.

“Maneater” was on the radio when I was about four, and I loved it because I thought it was about a woman who literally ate men. I pictured her as a werewolf.

ithiliana
9 years ago

MRAL makes a grandiose claim for this discussion: We’re having (more like I’m having, while you babble) an intellectual discussion about men’s role in feminist discourse.

I’m bored during lunch and decide to test that claim: that HE is having an intellectual discussion while the rest of us “babble.” (Of course that means, he’s having an intellectual discussion with himself, but hey, that’s the person he relates best to).

So as of 11:45 my time, here are his posts (no links because moderating HELL), cut and pasted with headers. (3 comments since I did my count, lucking not MRAL whew).

Total post count (as of now): 500.

Total MRAL post count: 63 (57 actual text posts, the rest vids, some with text, which I didn’t try to reproduce).

First, let us define terms: what “intellectual” mean:

Wikipedia talks about the intellectual class, and gives a history and some good examples: :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual

MRAL is using it as a modifier for discussion, not as a person (though his impliation is that HE is the INTELLECTUAL–also, see Radiohead later, he is DEEP) while the rest of us are shallow babbling fluffy idiots.

Intellectal is defined by Webster’s as:

a : of or relating to the intellect or its use
b : developed or chiefly guided by the intellect rather than by emotion or experience : rational
c : requiring use of the intellect
2a : given to study, reflection, and speculation

Intellect is defied as:

a : the power of knowing as distinguished from the power to feel and to will : the capacity for knowledgeb : the capacity for rational or intelligent thought especially when highly developed; a person with great intellectual powers

So, I will now categorize MRAL’s posts in regard to their dominant rhetorical mode which I’m making up right here (although I can talk about logos, ethos, pathos if you all would like :> XD).

1. INTELLECTUAL (hint just saying “I think” is not inherently intellectual!)
2. EMOTIONAL (his or others)
3. PERSONAL EXPERIENCE (his or others)
4. INSULTING
5. CURSING
6. SPECULATION
7. TRYING TO EXPLAIN WHAT HE MEANT WHICH HE DOES OFTEN
We will see what percentage of his posts count as WHICH. Some may of course count twice. We will keep an overall score: the lowest the better!

BEGIN:
Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 23, 2012 at 8:38 pm
I think they’re pretty representative. There’s a lot of resentment toward feminism, demonization of men (within feminism and general society), and the subsequent implication that men have it so good/women don’t, when that clearly is not true. One of the ways this resentment manifests is upvoted bile like the OP, misogynistic YouTube comments, etc.
Of course the OP’s crap, and I don’t think, if most of these 200-odd guys thought about it, they’d upvote it. But the internet is not conducive to deep thinking, so they see a view that sympathizes with men for once (as opposed to the endless parade of Women’s XXX) and they upvote, move on.
You can make fun of me, call me a piece of shit or a twisted vile woman hater as you’re all wont to do, but I’m just giving you what I think is the truth. And unlike the more overt ultra-misogynistic MRA hilarity, this resentment is, IMO, widespread. You can think on it, or just make fun of it.
2. EMOTIONAL (his or others)
4. INSULTING
5. CURSING
SCORE: 11

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 23, 2012 at 8:51 pm
Well I wouldn’t take it as far as the MRAs do, obviously, but I think there is a growing, and already significant, misandrist element to society- or at the least, a sort of male indifference. Especially to men who aren’t the traditional ideal (which is most guys on Reddit.) I think a lot of them do not feel valued by society. This is their response, piddling as it is.
3. PERSONAL EXPERIENCE (his or others)

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 23, 2012 at 8:54 pm
Jessonian, I don’t think that, because most of Reddit’s community are young guys, as in twenties or even my age and younger. The rub with them is, they have never known a world in which women were disadvantaged- I think (and this is extrapolation, I admit) a lot of them feel the opposite. I don’t think it’s a huge thing that defines their life… but I do think, in a lot of these guys’ minds, it’s a sort of background resentment, white noise or whatever. And again, some of it manifests online.
2. EMOTIONAL (his or others)
3. PERSONAL EXPERIENCE (his or others)
TOTAL: 5

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 23, 2012 at 8:57 pm
I said that of course this guy is a douche, and almost certainly a troll. But these upvoters don’t take the time to consider that- it’s someone sympathizing with men (for once) and even more krazy, criticizing women (for once). They upvote, move on.
4. INSULTING

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 23, 2012 at 8:58 pm
Well, Crum, there are a hell of a lot of guys- intelligent guys, guys that have problems, guys with more problems than women- who do not feel that way. Think on it.
2. EMOTIONAL (his or others)

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 23, 2012 at 9:00 pm
Well, feminism (sort of) has the power to end this background noise, but they choose to continue to demonize men, refer to them as oppressors, discuss women’s shit ad naseum, excommunicate men from their girls’ club for failing to be perfect princes at all times (re. Schwyzer). Fuck feminism.

2. EMOTIONAL (his or others)
5. CURSING
TOTAL: 7

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 23, 2012 at 9:02 pm
I think there are hardly any middle-aged men on Reddit. Maybe I’m wrong, but I doubt it. It is extremely skewed toward young, technogeek dudes.
3. PERSONAL EXPERIENCE (his or others)

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 23, 2012 at 9:04 pm
I’m not trolling. I do not like Schwyzer, of course, but the way he’s been crucified is extremely telling. What if Marcotte or Valenti admitted to sleeping with their students? What if they had Schwyzer’s full history? If you think the outrage would have been anywhere near this level, you’re fucking dreaming.

5. CURSING
6. SPECULATION
TOTAL: 11

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 23, 2012 at 9:08 pmYeah, basically, I don’t think that’s what little boys are taught, Jessonian.
Also ithiliana, whipping out the “you’re privileged Western men” is fucking rich when it comes to feminism, the Patented Middle-Class Rich White Girl movement.

3. PERSONAL EXPERIENCE (his or others)
5. CURSING
TOTAL: 8

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 23, 2012 at 9:17 pm
I said they were representative of young guys, you idiot.

4. INSULTING
7. TRYING TO EXPLAIN WHAT HE MEANT WHICH HE DOES OFTEN
TOTAL: 11

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 23, 2012 at 9:24 pm
I only trolled his blog once.
7. TRYING TO EXPLAIN WHAT HE MEANT WHICH HE DOES OFTEN

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 23, 2012 at 9:28 pm
Well, I still disagree, Jessonian. I don’t know what you want me to say? You’re just wrong. I’ve been a little boy, and you haven’t, so why don’t you shut your pie hole about things you don’t know anything about.
3. PERSONAL EXPERIENCE (his or others)
4. INSULTING
TOTAL: 7

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 23, 2012 at 9:36 pm
Well, frankly I think my opinion is worth more than yours on this subject, because as said I have been a little boy. Furthermore, none of the other little boys I know were instilled with misogyny, and given our current society, it would seem to me that very few little boys are instilled with misogyny. Or if they are, they sure as hell forget that pretty quickly.
Also, I had a good childhood. I was a chubby happy kid.
3. PERSONAL EXPERIENCE (his or others

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 23, 2012 at 9:38 pm
My parents thought I was autistic until I was like 12 though, haha.
3. PERSONAL EXPERIENCE (his or others)

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 23, 2012 at 9:40 pm
I don’t hate women. I do have something of a persecution complex, though I recognize it as a flaw, and I’m working on it.
3. PERSONAL EXPERIENCE (his or others)
7. TRYING TO EXPLAIN WHAT HE MEANT WHICH HE DOES OFTEN
TOTAL: 10

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 23, 2012 at 9:41 pm
Er, that has nothing to do with it Bostonian, and Schwyzer is NOT redeemed in my eyes. I still despise him. Just saying, his treatment as the hands of the fempire has been very telling re. their actual views on men. It’s not misandry, per se, but it’s a walloping double standard.
2. EMOTIONAL (his or others)
3. PERSONAL EXPERIENCE (his or others)
TOTAL: 5

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 23, 2012 at 9:45 pm
Eventually my mommy took me to a shrink, turned out I was just shy. I could have told them that, of course, but in this day and age you need a doctor for everything, I guess.
3. PERSONAL EXPERIENCE (his or others)

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 23, 2012 at 9:51 pm
I wasn’t special needs or anything, and it’s not like the teachers ever said anything so far as I know. It was just a hunch my mommy had, and it turned out to be wrong.
3. PERSONAL EXPERIENCE (his or others)

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 23, 2012 at 9:54 pm
So you think this has NOTHING to do with Schwyzer being male?
0 NULL: ASKING QUESTION

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 23, 2012 at 10:01 pm
Right, if this was Valenti- and she had done the same shit, with the genders reversed- you think there would be a similar reaction?
I mean, I like it in a sense, because it’s distracting him from male-bashing. But it’s hilarious how well it illustrates the double standards.
2. EMOTIONAL (his or others)
6. SPECULATION
TOTAl: 8

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 23, 2012 at 10:02 pm
Bostonian, I just don’t believe that. I really don’t. In fact, I think it would pass without all that much incident.
6. SPECULATION

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 23, 2012 at 10:06 pm
Well, all you guys seem to have no problem with it, indeed you have no problem psychoanalyzing me (conclusion: I am Hitler), so I’ll join you.
4. INSULTING

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 23, 2012 at 10:11 pm
I’m listening to What the Hell by Avril Lavigne.
0: NULL OFF TOPIC

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 23, 2012 at 10:12 pm
Oops, my previous post was meant to go to another forum. Sorry.
0: NULL OFF TOPIC

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 23, 2012 at 10:17 pm
I don’t have mommy issues at all.
3. PERSONAL EXPERIENCE (his or others)

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 23, 2012 at 10:19 pm
Has there ever been anything like this, though? And again, what if it was a female prof sleeping with her male students?
0: NULL. QUESTION

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 23, 2012 at 10:23 pm
Boggi, I say again, the internet misogyny is a result of young men who feel marginalized by mainstream society.
3. PERSONAL EXPERIENCE (his or others)
6. SPECULATION
TOTAL: 9

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 23, 2012 at 10:32 pm
It’s not that men can’t be criticized; so can women (although the fyms will phreak out if you try this). But there’s a- I think indifference is the right word, misandry is a bit too strong- a sort of indifference to men. How many fucking Women’s Blah Blah Blah do we have?
4. INSULTING

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 23, 2012 at 10:37 pm
And meh. I didn’t really think Schwyzer’s attempted murder-suicide post, 15-odd years after the fact, was that big of a deal. He got super fucked up and wanted to die, but changed his mind later. Honestly, I totally get that. Not that I’ve ever tried to kill myself, but once I got really, really, really high on some edibles- WAY over the line- and it was a nightmarish experience. I still smoke weed, but I’m much more careful now. This is a few years back. I remember walking around in the snow, barefoot, with a T-shirt on, and I had a burning urge to rip my nose off my face with pliers in the garage. At the same time (it was like a split personality) I was terrified I was going to actually do it. Then I punched myself in the face like five times, and passed out.

3. PERSONAL EXPERIENCE (his or others)
Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 23, 2012 at 10:41 pm
Okay, he wanted to murder someone, and changed his mind. I’m not trying to gloss anything over.
7. TRYING TO EXPLAIN WHAT HE MEANT WHICH HE DOES OFTEN

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 23, 2012 at 10:43 pm
It’s very strange. I have very different feelings regarding racial inequalities, xenophobia, gay rights, all that stuff… namely, I have no problem with them. I’ll fully cop to being a privileged white straight American.
2. EMOTIONAL (his or others)

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 23, 2012 at 10:47 pm
Right, not that it shouldn’t be objectionable. But my point is that being really under the influence is fucking crazy. You are not in your right mind, to say the least. Now, the fact that he was taking all that shit is his fault, but at the same time, I don’t see how it can be spun as anything other than extreme irresponsibility.
3. PERSONAL EXPERIENCE (his or others)

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 23, 2012 at 10:48 pm
Schwyzer got so much hate mail he posted IP addresses of a bunch of people. Kind of shoots down that theory, Pecunium.
1. INTELLECTUAL (hint just saying “I think” is not inherently intellectual!)
OMG: A FACT! AN ACTUAL FACT WHICH CAN BE CHECKED! WOOT! Nothing really done with it, but hey, MRAL’s batting pretty badly so far, so I’ll give him this one.

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 23, 2012 at 10:52 pm
No, I still hate him, but looking at it objectively- and treating Hugo as a prototypical Male Feminist, ignoring his individual views- this is pretty pathetic, e-witch hunting of the highest order.
2. EMOTIONAL (his or others)
4. INSULTING
Total: 6
PROTIP: Saying I hate him, but I am looking at things objectively is FAIL AT INTELLECT.

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 23, 2012 at 10:56 pm
No, Pecunium, Marcotte said:
“[People who defend the Duke lacrosse players are] rape-loving scum.”
“Can’t a few white boys sexually assault a black woman anymore without people getting all wound up about it? So unfair.”
This is after the hoax was basically exposed, by the way. And she never apologized. Frankly, I think she should have gotten a lot more grief.
ACTUALLY! This is a perfect example of the double standards. Why wasn’t she scourged?
2. EMOTIONAL (his or others)
[NOTE: MRAL thinks a woman should be beaten with a multi-thong whip used to inflict MAJOR INJURY AND PAIN, BUT HE IS RESPCTFUL OF ALL LIFE. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scourge%5D

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 23, 2012 at 10:56 pm
Gainsbourg has never been high, apparently.
6. SPECULATION

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 23, 2012 at 10:58 pm
Pecunium said:

(you know the woman who kept her internet persona neuter for years, because that way she didn’t get the hate mail and the death threats)
implies that she didn’t disclose her gender because females get more such threats, which is untrue- look at Schwyzer. Not that he didn’t deserve it, but, you know.
???: He tries to contradict Pecunium, but the ONE MALE FEMINIST got lots of hate mail is not quite the same as ALL MEN ARE AT RISK FOR HATE MAIL online the same way women are (not even feminists–i.e. see Kathy Sierra). So it’s a FAILED intellectual attempt, but I guess I can give partial credit.
.5 INTELLECTUAL
Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 23, 2012 at 11:04 pm
Why everyone thinks this is the MRAL Show is beyond me. We’re having (more like I’m having, while you babble) an intellectual discussion about men’s role in feminist discourse.
3. PERSONAL EXPERIENCE (his or others)
4. INSULTING
TOTAL: 7

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 23, 2012 at 11:09 pm
Yeah, Pink is fucking hot, I’d pound her in a second.
2. EMOTIONAL (his or others)

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 23, 2012 at 11:14 pm
Look, I guess we’d just disagree. I don’t find his story to be that big of a deal. On the other hand, I do find him to be a misandrist, so I suppose being excommunicated from feminism can only be a good thing. Less male-bashing. So screw it. I don’t know why I’ve gotten so invested, I don’t like the guy. Go ahead and mob him.
2. EMOTIONAL (his or others)
4. INSULTING
5. CURSING
6. SPECULATION
TOTAL: 17
NEXT FOUR: VIDS
NULL

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 24, 2012 at 12:10 am
Most of this shit is crap. Listen to some real music, like the stuff I posted, the work of actual artists.
3. PERSONAL EXPERIENCE (his or others)
5. CURSING
TOTAL: 8
Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 24, 2012 at 12:31 am
On the one hand, we have pandering fluff that takes no effort to discern and understand. On the other (mine) we have thought-provoking classical or neoclassical art that takes a sophisticated mind. I know which one I’m going for.
3. PERSONAL EXPERIENCE (his or others)
7. TRYING TO EXPLAIN WHAT HE MEANT WHICH HE DOES OFTEN
TOTAL: 10
Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 24, 2012 at 1:00 am
Lady Gaga- ugly (oh wait, forgot it was only women/Cassandra allowed to say this)
Nicki Minaj- all plastic.
Rihanna- Eh. She doesn’t really push my buttons. I like pale women.
2. EMOTIONAL (his or others)
4. INSULTING
TOTAL: 6
Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 24, 2012 at 1:03 am
Lady Gaga isn’t really ugly, just comparatively. My point stands, I’m not especially attracted to any of them.
3. PERSONAL EXPERIENCE (his or others)

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 24, 2012 at 1:06 am
Quackers, this is the site where women talk about how they don’t like Brad Pitt and Johnny Depp. I seriously don’t think Rihanna is that hot.
3. PERSONAL EXPERIENCE (his or others)

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 24, 2012 at 1:09 am
That’s right, no one is attracted to me. I am aware of that.
2. EMOTIONAL (his or others)

2 vids NULL

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 24, 2012 at 1:39 am
Quackers, I am not saying I wouldn’t have sex with Lady Gaga, even though I don’t find her attractive.
3. PERSONAL EXPERIENCE (his or others)

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 24, 2012 at 1:50 am
Hahaha, I like the way she does the “oh you” gesture when 3OH!3 says “Double D’s”
2. EMOTIONAL (his or others)

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 24, 2012 at 1:59 am
More slanderousness. I value all life.
2. EMOTIONAL (his or others)
7. TRYING TO EXPLAIN WHAT HE MEANT WHICH HE DOES OFTEN
TOTAL: 9
NOTE: AHAHAHAH! Except uppity feminists who should be scourged! And drowned! For never giving MRAL what he wants.

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 24, 2012 at 2:05 am
I EXPLAINED that. I didn’t mean the disaster itself.
7. TRYING TO EXPLAIN WHAT HE MEANT WHICH HE DOES OFTEN

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 24, 2012 at 2:23 am
Yeah, I don’t find black women attractive. Whoops, I’m racist, I guess?
3. PERSONAL EXPERIENCE (his or others)

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 24, 2012 at 2:28 am
Oh well. I feel like being as picky as Cassandra. Since I’m not getting any anyway I might as well. Pale skin is beautiful. I also like really blue eyes, and moderately big breasts, but not Christina Hendricks big, that’s too much. Between 5’4 and 5’7. AND dark hair. I prefer dark brown but black is ok. Blonde is ugly.
2. EMOTIONAL (his or others)

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 24, 2012 at 2:30 am
Right, Lady Gaga doesn’t have 50% of the audience, that’s why she’s the #1 pop star. I’ll tell you what’s going on. She’s comparatively unattractive, and knows it, so she goes for the whole insane woman shtick to kind of make herself about something else.
4. INSULTING

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 24, 2012 at 2:39 am
Well, Cassandra, she could always just remove the silicone.
6. SPECULATION

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 24, 2012 at 3:00 am
No, it’s more extreme for men. Ugly men are losers and that’s it, basically.
2. EMOTIONAL (his or others)
3. PERSONAL EXPERIENCE (his or others)
4. INSULTING
TOTAL: 9

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 24, 2012 at 9:36 am
Women get speaking engagements all the fucking time, especially if they’re rich white girls, more false victimization. Look at Valenti. Nice to see that people want to deny me employment based on gender, tho.
2. EMOTIONAL (his or others)
3. PERSONAL EXPERIENCE (his or others)
4. INSULTING
5. CURSING
6. SPECULATION
TOTAL: 20 THE WINNAH

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 24, 2012 at 10:28 am
Also, I don’t think Schwyzer is much of a “Nice White Dude” face for feminism. He’s hardcore, he’s a misandrist, he has double standards, bashes men, etc. Jessica Valenti is a more moderate face, and she’s still pretty hardcore.

The racism accusations don’t really bother me, because I can fart the wrong way and you guys will call racism. So, fuck off.

3. PERSONAL EXPERIENCE (his or others)
4. INSULTING
5. CURSING
TOTAL: 12
_______________________________________________________
LIST OF POST SCORES:
11
3
5
4
2
7
3
11
8
11
7
7
3
3
10
5
3
3
0
2
8
6
4
0
0
3
0
9
4
3
7
2
3
1
6
2
6
0.5
7
2
17
0
0
0
0
8
10
6
3
3
2
0
0
3
2
9
7
3
2
4
6
9
20
12

TOTA: 307.5
Divided by 57 (text posts)=5.4 average

10: NULL posts (0)
0.5 INTELLECTUAL SORT OF HALF ASSED)
1 INTELLECTUAL (1)
8: EMOTIONAL (2)
13: PERSONAL EXPERIENCE (his or others) (3)
4. INSULTING (4)
2. CURSING (2)
7 SPECULATION (6)
6 TRYING TO EXPLAIN WHAT HE MEANT WHICH HE DOES OFTEN (7)
8-9 (combinations of above) 6
10-11-12 (combinations of above) 6
17 & 20 MONDO COMBINATIONS: THE WINNAHS

The rest of you can figure out median and such if you want.

My preliminary analysis of the data is that in fact MRAL is not able to frame the vast majority of his posts intellectually.

He relies much more on expressions of emotion, personal experience, speculation, and (less than I thought, he’s getting better) personal insults and cursing.

NOT an intellectual in any way shape or form.

Well now that lunch is over, I have to go rewrite an essay and work on a talk I’m giving this weekend (RAY BRADBURY!!). Of course writing essays and talking about Ray Bradbury is not in the least intellectual since I have lady bits! *smirks*

Cheers!

Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

I missed the “I know what Hugo’s going through, because I got high once” post.

It’s interesting (and not just with MRAL) to see the quick-reversal the MRM is doing on Schwyzer. It’s been about a one-week turnaround from “evil gender traitor!!!” to “poor dear, the meanie feminists just hate him because he’s a man.”

Crumbelievable
Crumbelievable
9 years ago

“Women get speaking engagements all the fucking time, especially if they’re rich white girls, more false victimization. Look at Valenti. Nice to see that people want to deny me employment based on gender, tho.”

Oh dear, MRAL is turning into NWO.

Bostonian
9 years ago

It is becoming more apparent that MARL is the larval stage of an NWO.

zhinxy
9 years ago

It’s been about a one-week turnaround from “evil gender traitor!!!” to “poor dear, the meanie feminists just hate him because he’s a man.”

-And I’m worried Hugo’s gonna really enjoy that, and won’t have any trouble adapting to a new audience, not explicitly mra, no, but definitely anybody open to the “feminists are meanies and turn on men who just wanna help” message.

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

Oh, snap, MRAL! Ithiliana just broke it down for you, son. Read it and weep. Or whine, or have a tantrum, as you do.

Crumbelievable
Crumbelievable
9 years ago

Oh look, of course the Reddit MRAs completely missed the point of ChaCha’s misogynistic rant. What a surprise.

Viscaria
Viscaria
9 years ago

Someone tell me how the following makes sense, please?

Hugo Schwyzer: I hate him because he makes me feel bad, but I feel like you guys are making waaaay to big a deal about his almost murdering someone. Cut the guy a little slack, he was high. I mean, cut him slack about the murder thing. Not the making me feel bad. That shit’s pretty unforgivable.

MRAL, is it okay if he was high when he was writing posts you considered misandric?

Viscaria
Viscaria
9 years ago

Too* big a deal, not to big a deal. I’m going to blame that one on the phone >_>

evilwhitemalempire
evilwhitemalempire
9 years ago

The question remains: does Reddit attract the worst representatives of those in its heavily young, male, geek demographic, or is this how most of these (mostly) guys really think — even if they don’t usually say so out loud?

*******

Does feminism attract the worst representatives of those in its heavily FAT, male, geek demographic because they see sucking up to THE most self centered, egotistical, vain, arrogant females to ever walk the planet ala Stockholm Syndrome as their only chance of not dying virgins or is it how most of these guys really think?

captainbathrobe
9 years ago

Oh joy. Another MRAL thread. It’s the only thing that can make me glad that I have to attend a boring and pointless meeting right now.

Remember MRAL: only *you* can prevent narcissism.

Viscaria
Viscaria
9 years ago

Does feminism attract the worst representatives of those in its heavily FAT, male, geek demographic because they see sucking up to THE most self centered, egotistical, vain, arrogant females to ever walk the planet ala Stockholm Syndrome as their only chance of not dying virgins or is it how most of these guys really think?

Oh my gosh, there are FAT people involved in feminism? Well, that’s the last straw. I’m going to have to renounce the whole philosophy.

Lauralot
Lauralot
9 years ago

ANYTHING BUT THE GEEKS

Oh wait…I am a geek.

SHIT WHAT DO I DO

(Kate: That video is the “One of Us” scene from Freaks.)

Holly Pervocracy
9 years ago

I don’t even understand EWME. I think he typed something wrong but literally the only part of that post I understood was where he called us (or Redditors? or male feminists?) FAT.

Yes, EWME, some people are big and some people are small. Tomorrow we will work on colors, and the names of animals.

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

A Freaks reference! I love that movie!

Crumbelievable
Crumbelievable
9 years ago

“Does feminism attract the worst representatives of those in its heavily FAT, male, geek demographic because they see sucking up to THE most self centered, egotistical, vain, arrogant females to ever walk the planet ala Stockholm Syndrome as their only chance of not dying virgins or is it how most of these guys really think?”

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

Shadow
Shadow
9 years ago

@Nobinayamu

Mad jealous, I missed The Roots when they came down to TO, and I don’t think Jean’s ever made it up here. I did catch Mos in concert, though his material was concentrated around True Magic so I was disappointed. Don’t remember ever hearing of Tiye Phoenix but she is type nice on the mic! Also, judging by the photo, she’s another model-gorgeous rapper that went the b-girl way instead of the sex symbol way. BTW, if you recommend any other dope, current female emcees that do the fierce lyricism or lyrical bragaddocio thing I’d love to hear them. My library only consists of Grae, Psalm One and Rah Digga so it’s woefully thin.

I see the malempire struck back. Unsurprisingly underwhelming.

Shadow
Shadow
9 years ago

*if you can recommend

@Crumbelievable

To be fair, many psychologists have heard diagnose that words dance but harder to voices in hardest.

Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
9 years ago

Shaenon, I’m not saying that what Schwyzer did wasn’t really terrible, he tried to kill someone, and I recognize that. Only that, I don’t think it’s the same thing as premeditated murder, or whatever. I get how it could happen. I think it’s something that can be moved past.

Again, though, I hate him, so I don’t care. I would love it if he left the blogosphere,

belledame222
9 years ago

@zhinxy: oh, no worries, that boat sailed long ago. Hugo makes a big point of trying to “bridge the gap” (or something) between MRA’s and feminists. He think Glenn Sacks is a swell dude, even if the have gentlemanly disagreements. And so on.

belledame222
9 years ago

Again, though, I hate him, so I don’t care. I would love it if he left the blogosphere,

What a coincidence, MRAL…

belledame222
9 years ago

Oh, misread, I thought you said “I don’t hate him, so I don’t care.” Point being “don’t care, would like you to Goe Away now.” Sound familiar?

belledame222
9 years ago

“not the same as premeditated murder, or whatever.”

Brilliant.

Anyway, she probably was secretly laughing at him for having a zit at one point. THE BITCH MUST DIE.

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

Maybe she spit on him. All bets are off then.

red_locker
9 years ago

Oh, joy, a EWME and MRAL combo.

I can’t wait for dessert.

red_locker
9 years ago

“Hugo was nominated for 11 Academy Awards!

Oh wait different Hugo.”

I NEEEEED to see that movie.

ozymandias42
9 years ago

What does being fat, geeky, or male have to do with one’s political opinions? And before you say all fat geeky feminist men are virgins you kind of need to explain the fat geeky feminist men I know with multiple girlfriends.

Shaenon
9 years ago

Shaenon, I’m not saying that what Schwyzer did wasn’t really terrible, he tried to kill someone, and I recognize that. Only that, I don’t think it’s the same thing as premeditated murder, or whatever. I get how it could happen. I think it’s something that can be moved past.

That’s not what you said. Not only did you act like it was no big deal, you didn’t even seem to notice the “attempted murder” part of the story. You were talking like he broke a piece of furniture. It was scary as hell, not in the least because I can see you talking to some future girlfriend in exactly the same way. (“Yeah, I got pretty fucked up last night, good thing nobody was hurt. Oh, I punched you in the face? I mean, like a man getting hurt, like somebody who can feel pain. What’re you all worked up over? It’s not like I planned to punch you in advance! I was angry! And sad! And stoned!”)

Like I’ve said before, on a fundamental level you don’t see women as human.

Fortunately, I have an assignment for you!

1. Choose one of your intellectual talking points from this thread.
2. Turn off the fucking computer.
3. Leave your room and find a real live woman in the real world.
4. Discuss your thought-provoking intellectual idea with her.

Do not come back here until you’ve done this. I’ll be watching.

darksidecat
9 years ago

Why am I not surprised that MRAL can “get why that would happen” in regards to the attempted murder of a woman?

MRAL, you are a violent little shit that is at the present time totally unfit for human company. Not because you are male, either, but because you are you.

Ban him. Ban him. He’s an annoying little asshole. Also, he’s boring.

BlackBloc
BlackBloc
9 years ago

Shorter EWME: “You only get laid because you’re *nice* to people and they *want* you to fuck them. That’s cheating.”

Pecunium
9 years ago

MRAL: Note that the entirety of her position is that she believes there was a rape. It’s sort of like the people who say OJ killed his ex-wife.

Which is why she wasn’t, “scourged”, though there are feminists who think she was over the top, and said so. Some have even said so here. Confirmation bias much?

implies that she didn’t disclose her gender because females get more such threats, which is untrue- look at Schwyzer. Not that he didn’t deserve it, but, you know.

Um… you’re justification for this codswallop is what?

Let me give you a little outside evidence,

All of the bloggers at Tiger Beatdown have received threats, not just in email but in comments, on Twitter, and in other media, and the site itself has been subject to hacking attempts as well. It’s grinding and relentless and we’re told collectively, as a community, to stay silent about it, but I’m not sure that’s the right answer, to remain silent in the face of silencing campaigns designed and calculated to drive us from not just the Internet, but public spaces in general. To compress us into small boxes somewhere and leave us there, to underscore that our kind are not wanted here, there, or anywhere.

*GAG GAG GLUCK* You have discovered the only vocables worth hearing from Sady’s cock-stuffed maw…die tr*nny whore…[slut walk] is a parade for people who suffer from Histrionic Personality Disorder aka Attention Whores…I know where you live, r#tard…why don’t you do the world a favour and jump off a bridge…Feminazi…

A small sampling of the kinds of things that show up in our inboxes, in comment threads, on attack websites, in things sent to our readers.

Rape threats happen. Death threats happen. People threaten friends, families, jobs, household pets. Stalkers go to considerable lengths to collect and exploit information. People who are open about this, who do talk about threats and stalking and danger, and they are out there, are punished for it. They get more abuse, they’re told that they’re making it all up, that it’s all in their heads, that they are exaggerating, entirely new hate sites spring up to speculate about them and talk about their ‘desperate ploys for attention.’ That’s what I have to look forward to for writing this piece, for laying out some of the costs of social participation for you, for openly discussing the thing which dare not speak its name, the brash, open hostility reserved for people who do not shut up.

Are you going to say your little foray into hate maile is equal to that?

I’ve done the, “pretend to be female on the internet”. I’ve done it in BBS,and in blogs. I got crudely hit on. When I said I wasn’t interested… I got rape mail.

That’s without me talking about politics. It was just being female in public.

So no, I am not taking your claim that Schwyzer got that sort of treatment, just for being male. Because he didn’t. What abuse he got, from people like you, was for being feminist. What abuse he’s gotten from women is for being a self-confessed attempted murderer. Neither of those deserves death threats, but one of them certainly does justify some hostility.

So… care to try to get some evidence to support the claim… because the moment Digby came out… the rape mail, and the death threats happened. Stuff that had been non-existent (the rape mail) or much less common/vitriolic. She has a before/after condition to measure things against. In that situation, being female is worse.

You’ve got your certainty, which is worth about the same as a bucket of warm spit.

JohnnyBB
JohnnyBB
9 years ago

I guess I’m late to the party. But re: MRAL’s assertion that 1) There has been a lack of feminist condemnation of Schwyzer; and 2) Female feminists are never aggressively attacked.

I thought pretty much the entire feminist blogosphere that was at least as “radical” (for lack of a better term) as Feministe pretty much censured him. I’m a regular reader of Feministe and seem to recall a 1,000 comment apocalypse unfolded when Clarisse Thorn linked to an interview with him. The response was so negative that Thorn shut down the comments because she felt she couldn’t deal emotionally with moderating them, and as far as I know she has made only one post on their since, in which she tried to explain herself. The response to this post created another hundredsofcomments apocalypse chastising her and the site for giving him a platform. Fellow Feministe contributor Caperton then subsequently made a post that pretty much condemned Schwyzer and Thorn. Feministe then crossposted a post by feminist blogger Maia calling out Thorn and Schwyzer. This was accompanied by addressing of the issue on various other blogs that fall similarly on the feminist spectrum to Feministe.

And, since it wasn’t that big a deal to MRAL, the substance of much of the backlash regarding Schwyzer noted that most of the commentariat thought he was a huge tool before he admitted to trying to kill his ex-girlfriend.

So basically, what we had on one of the most popular feminist blogs, one that isn’t even anywhere near being a radfem blog was:

1) Widespread condemnation of Schwyzer for various actions; and

2) Widespread condemnation of a popular female feminist blogger.

Pecunium
9 years ago

MRAL: Why everyone thinks this is the MRAL Show is beyond me. We’re having (more like I’m having, while you babble) an intellectual discussion about men’s role in feminist discourse.

I’m babbling? You are being intellectual?

The former, perhaps but not likely, the second, not happening. You are blathering unsupported nonsense, and trying to convince us that it’s some sort of critical commentary.

Look, I guess we’d just disagree. I don’t find his story to be that big of a deal. On the other hand, I do find him to be a misandrist, so I suppose being excommunicated from feminism can only be a good thing. Less male-bashing. So screw it. I don’t know why I’ve gotten so invested, I don’t like the guy. Go ahead and mob him.

I get it… saying you believe a woman who claims to have been raped is worse than someone who says he tried to murder a woman.

Why do you wonder when people say you hate women?

JohnnyBB
JohnnyBB
9 years ago

Oh, I’m sorry, it was Magedelyn who asserted that feminists haven’t condemned Schwyzer, and MRAL just said that feminists never attack female feminists.

Dracula
Dracula
9 years ago

You want people to “think on” shit, MRAL? Well think on this; You have found yourself in a position where you’re begrudgingly paying lip service to notion that attempted murder is bad. Seriously? You hate Hugo Shwyzer for making some men feel bad, but can’t be bothered to give a shit that he tried to take a woman’s life.

And you’re trying to convince us you’re some kind of deep, profound thinker because you like fucking Radiohead? You can’t past the end of your own fucking nose. But what do I know, right? I’m just some big meanie who can’t see special and sensitive you are. Yeah, you’re sensitive. That doesn’t mean you’re not self-centered asshole.

Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
9 years ago

Shaenon, I think it’s more like, if I got high, and THOUGHT about punching my (hypothetical) girlfriend, and then didn’t. Remember, no one actually got hurt, and Hugo Dickbag changed his mind later on.

Which, I mean, thinking of punching someone still sort of sucks, and I’d feel kind of bad (not that this would ever happen because I’m such a passive person…) but no, I don’t think it’s a huge deal.

Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
9 years ago

Also, for the record, of course I realize that the situations are different in terms of severity, but I’m just extrapolating your example.

Snowy
Snowy
9 years ago

But he didn’t just think about it MRAL. He actually attempted to kill his girlfriend. They were saved in time but could have very easily died.

katz
9 years ago

It’s also racist to magnanimously grant that there is racial discrimination, as if it needs your approval in order to exist.

Joanna
9 years ago

Well I’m back from work. Nice to see this thread is still going four hours later….

katz
9 years ago

Don’t worry, Joanna. This thread is forever.

Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
9 years ago

I thought he called the police himself and asked for assistance because he didn’t have the strength or will or whatever to turn the gas off. Maybe I’m misremembering?

Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
9 years ago

Also, katz, that’s dumb. Are you kidding me? I’m saying I do believe that there is significant racial discrimination. I’m AGREEING with you.

I think I, personally, have it worse than most black dudes on the whole, sure, but me being white is one individual advantage I will definitely admit to.

Shaenon
9 years ago

What does being fat, geeky, or male have to do with one’s political opinions? And before you say all fat geeky feminist men are virgins you kind of need to explain the fat geeky feminist men I know with multiple girlfriends.

My husband is unaccustomed to the geek social scene (except when it comes to comic books, his one thing), and he has repeatedly expressed amazement that all poly guys seem to be fat beardy nerds. It’s gotten to the point where if we meet a fat beardy nerd, he says, “I bet that guy’s got like six girlfriends.”

Pecunium
9 years ago

EN is a closet Mellibertopian… be a “good girl” or be sold to a brothel.

Shadow
Shadow
9 years ago

Men’s Rights Activist Lieutenant | January 23, 2012 at 10:37 pm
And meh. I didn’t really think Schwyzer’s attempted murder-suicide post, 15-odd years after the fact, was that big of a deal. He got super fucked up and wanted to die, but changed his mind later. Honestly, I totally get that. Not that I’ve ever tried to kill myself, but once I got really, really, really high on some edibles- WAY over the line- and it was a nightmarish experience. I still smoke weed, but I’m much more careful now. This is a few years back. I remember walking around in the snow, barefoot, with a T-shirt on, and I had a burning urge to rip my nose off my face with pliers in the garage. At the same time (it was like a split personality) I was terrified I was going to actually do it. Then I punched myself in the face like five times, and passed out.

There are your words (*is very thankful for ithiliana’s compilation*)

You mention that it was a murder-suicide in your first sentence. Not mentioned again. It’s like the “murder” in “murder-suicide” is just there for decoration.

Also, I’d like to pass on some wisdom given to us by the great thinkers of yore: “Don’t start none, won’t be none”