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Upvoted on Reddit: “The problems in the sex [tourism] industry are mostly women’s fault.”

Today in Did That Really Get 196 Upvotes on Reddit: A Redditor claiming to be the owner of a brothel in Thailand explains how what he euphemistically calls the “problems in the sex industry” are mostly the fault of evil, lazy whores. Literally.

Let’s join the discussion already in progress. (ChaChaKrahp is the alleged brothel owner.)

A little further on in the discussion he makes this charming claim:

According to him, sex trafficking isn’t really a big issue, but when it does occur it  “is more likely to victimize men” than women. (The main victims in his mind being trafficked men (by which I assume he means transwomen)  … and male sex tourists.)

Those poor, poor Western sex tourists, suffering so at the hands of women and girls who’ve been kidnapped and sold into sex slavery!

But let’s just put this whole “trafficking” thing out of our heads. As ChaChaKrahp explains it, prostitution in Thailand is just a way for lazy ladies to make money. It’s totally on the up and up – “[j]ust like college girls in the US that work as strippers for $300 per night instead of picking strawberries for $50 per day.”

The only real problem is all those evil ladies ripping off dudes.

Did that last bit sound a little … MRAish to you?

Though this discussion isn’t in the Men’s Rights subreddit., ChaChaKrahp shares a lot of opinions and obsessions with the MRA crowd, peppering the discussion with MRA talking points on everything from dangerous jobs and breast cancer funding to  false rape accusations and paternity fraud. While he claims not to “give a shit about MRA groups,” he links to prominent Father’s Rights site fathersandfamilies.com, and rails endlessly about the evils of feminism. He walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.

While ChaChaKrahp seems quite sincere in his beliefs, this is the Internet, and so there’s a chance that this “brothel owner” is not actually a brothel owner at all, just some dude making this all up for Reddit karma points and lulz.

Even if that’s the case, we still have all those hundreds of Redditors who read his comments and happily upvoted them, either because they thought what he said was sensible or true, or because the thought of owning a brothel in Thailand gave them boners.

The question remains: does Reddit attract the worst representatives of those in its heavily young, male, geek demographic, or is this how most of these (mostly) guys really think — even if they don’t usually say so out loud?

(Thanks to ShitRedditSays for pointing me to this lovely thread.)

EDITED TO ADD: Brothel Owner under attack (by a few people)! Send in the r/mensrights upvote brigade to upvote him even more than he’s already being upvoted!!!

 

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Ami Angelwings
9 years ago

I wonder how long until the discussion turns to talking about trans women in Thailand >_> It’s always hilarious when they go from the sex industry in thailand with cis women to trans women and proof of male oppression:

Amateur Strategist December 1, 2009 at 08:06

Novaseeker: I have a theory of why there might be more transexuals in Thailand, it came to me in one of those silly chain emails about “guess which of these 2 is a woman, and which is a man”, about 10 rows of them, and each looked kinda convincing. I’ve seen real women look less womanish in any case.

Well, the answer was that it was all of them men (dressing as women, if I didn’t point that out).

I began to think about the “sex tourism” blog posts others had posted, mostly of Thailand. Apparently it’s kinda a lucrative business to be a sex tourist server, for young Women. But where does this leave the young Thailandese Men? Sure there’s always labor to do, but that can’t be the end-all be all, and if the rest of the family is in on this, dependent on the income no matter how its produced, this could only coerce transexuality.

Like that guy from: http://www.the-spearhead.com/2009/12/01/suicidal-tendencies/ that Spearhead post on trans women XD

Xanthe
Xanthe
9 years ago

Today in Did That Really Get 196 Upvotes on Reddit…

Of course, by the time you screen-capped it, it was up to 197 upvotes… 🙄

Joanna
9 years ago

“It is normal for a Thai woman to lie to men to get money. “I love you.” “I don’t really have a husband across town.”

Now let’s switch genders and leave out the “Thai” bit just to include everybody here.

It is normal for a man to lie to women to get sex. “I love you”. “I don’t really have a wife across town.”

Yup. Sounds familiar.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

So the khatoey become khateoy because it’s an easy and lucrative life choice?

Um…my parents used to live in Pattaya, and I have to say, that’s ridiculous even by MRA standards. I’m willing to bet that the supposed Thai brothel owner is actually a white dude who has his hand down his pants as he types, too.

Dani Alexis
Dani Alexis
9 years ago

Did he seriously compare “getting ripped off to the tune of 2 extra beers” to “being forced to have sex with strangers in exchange for continued slavery”?

I keep thinking the MRAs will stop surprising me with how far into the hole they’ve dug. Then up comes another shovelful….

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

Also, if in theory male sex tourists were a victimised group they could very easily avoid said victimisation by not being sex tourists. See how easy that is? In fact, it’s quite possible to be a Western man and go to Thailand and not be a sex tourist. There are plenty of things to do there that don’t involve paying to have sex with teenagers and/or children.

thebewilderness
thebewilderness
9 years ago

I’m a little confused about how acting like a decent human includes selling the sexual services of his slaves.

Miki
Miki
9 years ago

“Does Reddit attract the worst representatives of those in its heavily young, male, geek demographic, or is this how most of these (mostly) guys really think — even if they don’t usually say so out loud?”

This is what I’m actually really afraid of. On the internet, there’s just so much virulent, hateful misogyny said so casually that you just have to wonder.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

“This is what I’m actually really afraid of. On the internet, there’s just so much virulent, hateful misogyny said so casually that you just have to wonder.”

I’m bi, and sometimes reading comments from dudes on the internet makes me consider just sticking with the ladies.

Jessonian
Jessonian
9 years ago

The question remains: does Reddit attract the worst representatives of those in its heavily young, male, geek demographic, or is this how most of these (mostly) guys really think — even if they don’t usually say so out loud?

As a young female geek who works with lots of young male geeks, this gives me especial pause.

Jessonian
Jessonian
9 years ago

So, um, I own a brothel in some exotic place I only know about through porn. I mean, I live there. And I’m a business owner. And so what I do is run my business really well by protecting all the women I sit at home masturbating to in my basement. I mean, those women that are really actually my real employees. And they’re awesome, but the rest of the women I see on the street and at the grocery store and online are total whores. I mean, the exotic women from that exotic place are whores. And also evil oppressors who use my mindless uncontrol over my penis against me. I mean, all men’s mindless uncontrol over all men’s penises.

Signed, TotallyWhoISayIAmOnTheRedditInterwebz6969

Crumbelievable
Crumbelievable
9 years ago

Whenever someone asks me why I’m a misanthope, I point to the Internet.

Crumbelievable
Crumbelievable
9 years ago

I also point to the Internet when asked why I’m a misanTHrope, which is more often than being asked about my misanthopy.

no more mr nice guy
9 years ago

“Does Reddit attract the worst representatives of those in its heavily young, male, geek demographic, or is this how most of these (mostly) guys really think — even if they don’t usually say so out loud?”

Reddit is unmoderated, and unlike Usenet, I don’t think it’s possible to find personal information about posters (on Usenet, when someone make too much trouble, people troll him and post his address and phone number), so I’m sure it’s a safe haven for a lots of trolls and nutcases.

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

I think the internet gives guys like this the freedom to let their assiness run amok. They’d never say shit like this in public (most of them). I’m not sure if this is a good thing or not.

I don’t believe the pimp wannabe for a second. Like Cassandra said, if these guys are so victimized by sex tourism, don’t be a sex tourist. Problem solved.

Shadow
Shadow
9 years ago

Think of the penes!!! Won’t someone please think of the penes?!!!!

Joanna
9 years ago

Sheesh! Can’t a guy hire a prostitute to spunk all over without being ripped off? What is this world coming to?

Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
9 years ago

I think they’re pretty representative. There’s a lot of resentment toward feminism, demonization of men (within feminism and general society), and the subsequent implication that men have it so good/women don’t, when that clearly is not true. One of the ways this resentment manifests is upvoted bile like the OP, misogynistic YouTube comments, etc.

Of course the OP’s crap, and I don’t think, if most of these 200-odd guys thought about it, they’d upvote it. But the internet is not conducive to deep thinking, so they see a view that sympathizes with men for once (as opposed to the endless parade of Women’s XXX) and they upvote, move on.

You can make fun of me, call me a piece of shit or a twisted vile woman hater as you’re all wont to do, but I’m just giving you what I think is the truth. And unlike the more overt ultra-misogynistic MRA hilarity, this resentment is, IMO, widespread. You can think on it, or just make fun of it.

hellkell
hellkell
9 years ago

That’s nice, dear.

Crumbelievable
Crumbelievable
9 years ago

“One of the ways this resentment manifests is upvoted bile like the OP, misogynistic YouTube comments, etc. ”

Except that the resentment is completely unjustified. All this paranoia and anxiety MRAs have about men being devalued in society and treated like less than dogs is absurd and baseless.

Jessonian
Jessonian
9 years ago

@MRAL,

Is it possible the resentment, which I’m sure is present in some amount thought I’m not sure it’s as widespread as you say, is due more to men’s loss of privilege and power as women become more equal participants in society and less, well, submissive gallery pieces and live-in maids and babysitters?

I mean, though I can’t really imagine it firsthand, it must feel really darn good to be the kingpin of a family, business, and community by virtue of having a penis. And when that’s taken away (or moderated, since it hasn’t really gone away yet) it’s probably pretty confusing and frustrating.

Also, the term feminism used as an abstract demonic force is a pretty convenient punching bag. Thai brothel-owners saddened by the whorish evil nature of most women? Feminism is to blame! Men are frustrated with loss of privilege? Feminism! (oh wait, that one’s actually true)

burgundy
burgundy
9 years ago

Hey MRAL, what if we think on it, find it ridiculous, and then make fun of it?

I’m just not seeing how a topic that involves women and children being sold into sex slavery can be twisted into a male-victimization story by anyone with any sense of empathy or proportion. If in fact the many men I know who do not behave that way are the exception, and the lack of empathy and proportion necessary to act as you describe is “widespread,” then maybe men deserve to be demonized, because they are basically assholes. (This has not been my experience, but hey, maybe I’m sheltered, maybe the men in my life are disproportionately manginas and I don’t know how real men think. I’m open to the possibilities here.)

Also, when it comes to “thinking on it,” I can’t help but notice that you are pre-emptively playing the victim card and not trying to engage with any of the reasoned responses you have received time and time again (e.g. explanations of how feminist priorities actually address many of the concerns you’ve raised regarding how men are treated.) So uh, you might want to consider that. You know. If being called names every loses its appeal for you.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

He’s never going to leave, is he? Especially now that he’s found a new tagline (think on it!).

You know a person has become truly unhinged when they think that rich people going to poor countries to take advantage of the poverty of the poor people in those countries is a case of the poor people exploiting the rich people, just because the poor people in question have vaginas. No amount of resentment justifies that kind of stupidity and obliviousness of class/race/international issues.

There’s also the issue of the age of many of the poor people involved, but at this point I’m so used to MRAs displaying Pedobear tendencies that that part barely even registers any more. The sad part is that there’s an actual men’s issue in there – some of the children, and I really do mean children, being exploited in Thailand are boys – but none of the MRA dudes are interested in touching that issue since it’s mostly men doing the exploiting and the boys in question aren’t white.

burgundy
burgundy
9 years ago

Grr, “being called names EVER loses its appeal.” I am a daughter and sister of proofreaders! I should be better than that!

Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
9 years ago

Well I wouldn’t take it as far as the MRAs do, obviously, but I think there is a growing, and already significant, misandrist element to society- or at the least, a sort of male indifference. Especially to men who aren’t the traditional ideal (which is most guys on Reddit.) I think a lot of them do not feel valued by society. This is their response, piddling as it is.

magdelyn
9 years ago

God forbid we discuss MRA “talking points”. Particularly since the politics of “trafficing” are filled with phoney statistics, it would just be ridiculous to talk about the issues without fedfem orthodoxy defining the parameters of allowed discourse.

Scar
Scar
9 years ago

Having some gross, sweaty, pervy guy fondle your most private parts and penetrate you for money, while telling you what a filthy whore you are – and continually trying to pull off the condom so he can spooge in you and give you god knows what diseases – is SUCH an easy life!
And it’s not like there is any social stigma attached to it; everyone sees it as a totally reputable and noble profession – on a par with being a football coach or a junior partner in a law firm!

Rei
Rei
9 years ago

Prostitutes use sex to abuse men.

Prostitutes…use sex…to abuse men.

Prostitutes

use

sex to

abuse

men

It’s like the world’s worst game of Madlibs.

Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
9 years ago

Jessonian, I don’t think that, because most of Reddit’s community are young guys, as in twenties or even my age and younger. The rub with them is, they have never known a world in which women were disadvantaged- I think (and this is extrapolation, I admit) a lot of them feel the opposite. I don’t think it’s a huge thing that defines their life… but I do think, in a lot of these guys’ minds, it’s a sort of background resentment, white noise or whatever. And again, some of it manifests online.

Crumbelievable
Crumbelievable
9 years ago

“They see a view that sympathizes with men for once (as opposed to the endless parade of Women’s XXX)…”

The entire world sympathizes or at least caters to men. It always has and sadly always will. Putting aside all the craziness that the MRM brings out, I will never understand how MRAs can look at the world, where men run the government on pretty much every level, as well as most industries including the financial world and even the women’s fashion industry, and say, “Wow, men are so oppressed!” It’s as silly as when people complain that white people are oppressed.

Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
9 years ago

I said that of course this guy is a douche, and almost certainly a troll. But these upvoters don’t take the time to consider that- it’s someone sympathizing with men (for once) and even more krazy, criticizing women (for once). They upvote, move on.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

The belief that it’s OK for background resentment to manifest as callous indifference to the suffering of others is pretty much the definition of entitlement.

Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
9 years ago

Well, Crum, there are a hell of a lot of guys- intelligent guys, guys that have problems, guys with more problems than women- who do not feel that way. Think on it.

Protagoras
9 years ago

I guess this is an example of a stopped clock being right twice a day. I mean, sure, the stuff about the customers of the Thai brothels being exploited is absurd, but the sensationalist claims of the anti-trafficking crowd about how the women there are all twelve year old slaves aren’t really any better. Sex workers don’t actually seem to be coerced more often or more severely than people in other kinds of low skill work (not a high standard in a third world country, admittedly), and they are mostly in their 20s and 30s. While relatively few sex workers seem to be in the business because they love the work, the same can be said for maids or factory workers or migrant farm laborers; overwhelmingly the most common reason women are in sex work seems to be because they make more money there than in the other unappealing options available to them, not because anybody is forcing them.

Jessonian
Jessonian
9 years ago

@MRAL,

There’s indifference to all people who aren’t the traditional ideal. That’s sort of the thing about cliques: they’re arbitrarily selective. They effect everyone, not just men.

Maybe you don’t realize it fully, but women are just as varied in our interests, inclinations, histories, and personalities as men are. Therefore, we get classed (by other women and men) into categories which tally how well we fit with what’s hot, trendy, classic, indie, and so on. Generally the beauty ideal serves a tiny minority of women who fit it, and the tiny minority of men who are told they can ‘get’ these women. The rest of us are left to find our own definition of beauty and acceptance…and we’re much better off for it.

The moment you stop wallowing in what you imagine you’re missing out on is the moment you realize how wide and wonderful the world is. It’s the moment you really start to live.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

Oh, and in the case of Reddit it also manifests as rape jokes, harrassment of 14 year old girls, etc. This is not a reasonable response to feeling put upon.

no more mr nice guy
9 years ago

MRAL, these guys are not representative, most of these guys are frustrated teenagers or jobless middle-aged men. Several years ago, there was a guy making a lot of shit on various Usenet groups, so people started trolling him to find out who he was and they discovered that he was married, had no jobs, his wife had a job and was paying for everything and the house and everything belonged to her – and I’m sure she was not submissive with him. I think many of these guys that bitch against feminism are like that.

Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
9 years ago

Well, feminism (sort of) has the power to end this background noise, but they choose to continue to demonize men, refer to them as oppressors, discuss women’s shit ad naseum, excommunicate men from their girls’ club for failing to be perfect princes at all times (re. Schwyzer). Fuck feminism.

Viscaria
Viscaria
9 years ago

I don’t speak enigmatic occasionally-appearing troll. Can anyone tell me what a ‘fedfem’ is?

Shadow
Shadow
9 years ago

(re. Schwyzer)

I can’t even…. you’ve got to be trolling

Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
9 years ago

I think there are hardly any middle-aged men on Reddit. Maybe I’m wrong, but I doubt it. It is extremely skewed toward young, technogeek dudes.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

@Protagoras

My parents actually lived in Thailand for a while. The average sex worker there is not in her (or his) 30s. If you go into any red light district in Thailand what you will see is in fact mostly teenagers. In some cases, you’ll see kids who haven’t even hit puberty yet.

Scar
Scar
9 years ago

So what you’re saying, MRAL, is that there is a ‘cream’ of white, het, cis males who have it so fucking good (money, bitches, power) that those males who fall well below that standard feel like they lucked out in life?
Sounds like the problem lies with a few dudes being massively selfish assholes to me and other dudes aspiring to be like those gigantic assholes.

Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant
9 years ago

I’m not trolling. I do not like Schwyzer, of course, but the way he’s been crucified is extremely telling. What if Marcotte or Valenti admitted to sleeping with their students? What if they had Schwyzer’s full history? If you think the outrage would have been anywhere near this level, you’re fucking dreaming.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
9 years ago

Those who are congenitally unable to see oppression if it affects women should check out the old British TV documentary about khatoey that followed a young boy from the hill country as he tried to make his way in Pattaya. He started out wanting to be an entertainer, ended up in the sex industry just like most kids in his situation do.

He was about 15.

ithiliana
9 years ago

they have never known a world in which women were disadvantaged-

Let me fix that for you: these young, straight, white, cis, probably not living in extreme poverty, men who may not even be supporting themselves yet look around at the young, straight, white, cis, conventionally pretty young women around them who give them (MEN) boners and who (women) are relatievely privileged as well…..and have absolutely no fucking knowledge of the extreme oppressions that women who are not in that very small privileged group in the US face during their lives based on poverty, discrimination, rape as a tool of war, genital mutilation, etc. (and even quite a few women in the US are in groups who are very much facing major discrimination), but since those boys don’t know shit about the world, they spend a lot of time whining on the internet about oh how sad and bad their lives are.

Cry me a river, boys. It will float the smallest violin in the world which is all you deserve.

*offers you cheese to go with that whine*

Jessonian
Jessonian
9 years ago

@MRAL,

Children are aware of gender expectations at early ages. By five I think most children, if you ask them, could articulate what girls are supposed to like/do/look like, and what boys are supposed to like/do/look like. If boys are being programmed that they are entitled to do/think/become/own and girls to be done to/thought about/married/owned, then growing up and realizing that no, in fact the world does not revolve around your penis, is discombobulating and frustrating for many men, I’m sure.

And yes, that has everything to do with entitlement and privilege.

Valerie
Valerie
9 years ago

Did some asshole just say that they may be “influenced by poverty”?? OMFG.

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