Most of the coverage of the Costa Concordia disaster at the moment seems to be focusing on the Italian cruise ship’s captain and his douchey behavior, which involved not only running the ship aground but also abandoning ship prestissimo while passengers remained trapped on board.
MRAs, by contrast, are using the tragedy as an excuse to rail against the notion of “women and children first” and, of course, to make jokes about women drowning.
Now, the Titanic aside, “women and children first” isn’t now, and hasn’t ever really been, the standard way to evacuate those on a sinking ship, though many in the public — including some of those who were on board the Costa Concordia – seem to believe that it is. (See here for more details on how evacuations are typically handled these days; generally only those with mobility problems are given special treatment.)
In the case of this particular evacuation, some on board apparently tried to enforce an informal “women and children” policy, but many men weren’t willing to wait.
What’s got some MRAs in a snit is that some people, in the media and online, are calling these dudes cowards. In The Daily Mail, a right-wing British tabloid, A N Wilson wrote:
[I]n our day, with the advent of feminism and the professional woman, chivalry and manners are considered stuffy and old-fashioned.
As the father of three daughters, I do not, with a single fibre of my being, wish to go back to a time when women could not have the vote or get a university degree. Nor do I, surrounded by extremely strong-charactered and intelligent women in my family and among my friends, feel tempted to regard women as the frail sex.
But the fact remains that there is a longing among most men to protect women and children, and chivalry is simply a manifestation of that longing.
And whatever transpires about the reason for the Costa Concordia disaster, the disappearance of a chivalric code is a sorry reflection on society today.
This is not what you’d call a feminist argument; it’s a traditionalist argument, published in a tabloid rag that’s generally quite hostile to feminism.
Nonetheless, some MRAs are using the Costa Concordia disaster as an opportunity to deliver a big “told you so!” to the … imaginary feminists who live in their head.
Over on The Spearhead, where one familiar commenter actually described Wilson’s Daily Mail article as “feminist,” guest poster Lyn87 wrote:
The MRM is getting more vocal, and a lot of guys are now saying, “You wanted equality. This is what it looks like.” And they are saying it aloud and in public. Even a few women chimed in, saying that men have no obligation to die for women if women want equality. (Somehow I suspect there wasn’t much, “I am woman, hear me roar, watch me drown” on the Costa Concordia itself, but hey, it’s a start.)
MRAs: Always up-to-the-minute with their pop culture references!
This post was helpfully illustrated with a stock photo of a woman drowning.
Commenters got in their digs as well.
Keyster riffed on Lyn87’s incredibly au courant Helen Reddy reference:
I am woman hear me…blurp….rah…gurgle…raha…ffftt…orr…roar…gurgle…help me…somebody…fffft…please…blurp…help…help me please!
Aharon told both ladies and fish what’s what:
I eat fish. Fish don’t eat me. My life is too precious to sacrifice it so some spoiled bitch can have a pussy pass into the life boats.
Anti Idiocy got all hypothetical-cruise-ship tough guy on us:
Anyone who attempts to keep me on a sinking ship because of the genitals with which I was born is attempting to murder me. I have the right to respond accordingly.
And Thomas Tell-truth kicked chivalry – not to mention basic human decency — to the ocean floor:
Equality means that when the ship is going down and you are a woman, you had better get out of my way or you are going to drown with my footprints on your back.
Apparently Thomas Tell-truth is actually George Costanza:
Jeb, meanwhile, offered a more scientific rationalization for being a complete douchenozzle:
As far as I’ve heard, the one and only sport in which women naturally out-do men is endurance swimming. Women are also more bouyant, and as survivalists will explain, women float easiest on their backs (making it easy to breathe while expending minimal energy) whereas men float easiest in “the dead man’s float” (ie. face down, head in the water) and must expend more energy to stay alive. Furthermore, women have more body-fat than men which insulates them better against aquatic dangers such as hypothermia.
Given all these factors it is quite rational for men to pick women up by the seat of their pants and toss them overboard to make way for men and children to safely be rowed ashore on the lifeboats.
It’s all about doing the right thing and saving lives, after all.
MRA humor is very sophisticated indeed.
EDITED TO ADD: The Spearhead has put up a followup post, once again taking aim at imaginary “lifeboat feminists,” though the only person the post cites lamenting the end of “women and children” is Rich Lowry from the National Review (not a feminist publication).
Geese Howard said, “Because it would indicate that women likely did not receive preferential treatment vis-a-vis men. Unlike the existing figures, which show the exact opposite.”
Men received preferential treatment in society at that time by being able to travel in greater numbers. I see you’re not too upset about that.If that ship had not sank that preferential treatment could have went by without a blink.
@BlackBloc, I understand what is being said about odds but the only way to really have had the “justice” MRAL is talking about would have been for every single woman to die.
I will say this, if I were making the rules, it would be the weaker(man or woman) first, children and their caretakers, then the able bodied, not necessarily a equal man/woman/child ratio.
Rutee Katreya said”Actually, the existing figures in this thread don’t show that at all. Because the existing figures in this thread aren’t actually compilations over long periods, but exist for only a single disaster”
so this, I tire of the whole idea of some of these guys that women should be happy house servant/sex toys for men because some men in the rare tragedy saved a woman. This is so like a mafia protection racket. Women better act right or something might happen…
Manosphere insurance? Makes me think of Chris Rock, “They should call it in case shit happens…The only reason I give an insurance company money is in case shit happens. When shit doesn’t happen, shouldn’t I get my money back?”
Katz – That, so that.
Rutee Katreya
Because the existing figures in this thread aren’t actually compilations over long periods, but exist for only a single disaster, which doesn’t really say anything about how disasters usually go. You’re going to need a lot more data sets than one disaster.
If you took the time to read the thread, you would see that my comment was in response to Xtra’s ridiculous claim that women did not receive preferential treatment during the evacuation of the *Titanic* due to roughly equal numbers of both sexes surviving, despite men making up a much larger percentage of the crew.
It had nothing to do with the overarching historical trend with regards to the matter. But, given the pervasive traditionalist cultural meme of “Women and children first,” it would be extraordinarily unlikely if the historical data didn’t support the above.
Got any figures that suggest otherwise?
Science is hard, isn’t it?
Sure is, Sparky. But it ain’t got nothing on basic reading comprehension.
@ Xtra:
“Men received preferential treatment in society at that time by being able to travel in greater numbers.”
Irrelevant. Nice attempt to move the goalposts, dipshit.
P.s. I was coast guard, and I would like to blow the whistle and say I was actually taught not to save men. 4srs.
So Xtra, how exactly do you propose to determine “the weaker”, outside of the children?
Amused:
“The Titanic is also an example of male recklessness, that’s encouraged by the patriarchy.”
Hellz yeah. Although you forgot to point out that men are walking rape-machines just waiting to impregnate any careless female passer-by with their red-hot semen of death.
No donuts for you, sugartits.
“- Conscription (Most recently, Vietnam. I understand there is no draft now, but men are still the only ones who have to register for the possibility. It sends a message).
– Seemingly endless, endless, fucking endless women’s health initiatives (many run by the government) despite the fact that women live longer.”
Right, so MRAL, I’ve mentioned before that FiletofSwedishBoyfriend is a Marine. What he does is recruit, which is all they do now inspite of registering for selective service. They have quotas for who they will recruit with regards to a number of minority statuses. And they still only have about 4 spaces for female recruits each year, and they all have to meet higher standards than the guys they recruit with regards t oASVAB test scores. They have to turn away a decent number of female applicants (not many women want to be Marines, mostly due to the extremely macho culture and hoo boy is it macho let me tell you). So, no, it isn’t women making men compose more of the military, I promise. It’s outdated mindsets about women’s capabilities. None of the recruiters in his office, or that i’ve met, get excited about putting in female recruits, not like they do about the boys.
On to your second point: most of those initiatives are around breast, reproductive, and sexual health. Having babies is hard, and generally not good for you. Also, our bodies tend to be more susceptible to most STIs. then again, you can also use Planned Parenthood as a guy, and I’ve known male sufferers of breast cancer who used the same breast health clinics as women.
So Amused, because of one captain incompetence (not recklessness, incompetence), all the worthless useless disposable men on the Titanic are to blame?
As for the draft, I say again- it’s the principle of the thing. You say that “when the shit hits the fan” things’ll be different, but on the whole, history doesn’t support that. How many women were sent to Vietnam?
Then you’re an even bigger fucking moron than I’d expect, because you can’t extrapolate anything about the current state of affairs from a single disaster a century ago. You can’t talk about what is ‘just’. You don’t know what’s happening at all.
In other words, you’re taking your stance on faith based on a single disaster’s numbers, rather than looking at actual data. If you’ve got time to sit here and argue, you’ve got time to actually find data that supports your position. I’m not doing your homework for you.
Way to misreprsent what I was saying, jackass. Oh, and what a pity about withholding the donuts! I think I’ll just go and starve to death without your magnanimous support.
I bet a woman made those donuts . . .
I will blame women for this shit, as I blame men. I’m sick of . Women make up half of society, and they have immense social power. Women shaming men for not being “manly” enough, or whatever else, that shit happens all the time. I have no problem blaming women, in part, for male disposability.
Another point:
– “Never hit a women” meme, and the perception that it’s some grevious trangression. I was watching the Lost finale, and Sayid sat around while a dude got beaten up, and then when the bully slapped this woman once, he flipped out. He’s nothing but a mangina.
@Amused
NO!!! Cry, cry like your life depends on it dammit!!!
@ Geese of course preferential treatment of men outside of emergencies is irrelevant to you but it’s pretty simple, more men on ship automatically = more male casualities. This is especially true if all the women died more men still would have died. 100% of the women on that ship was not even equal to half of the men that died.
@mral the weaker would be elderly and handicapped in some way, not those that are weaker in strength when perfectly healthy outside of children. I think those grown and healthy should put children, elderly and infirm first regardless of gender.
Although I still believe captain and crew should be last as is custom.
And I’m not saying that men shouldn’t be in the Army in greater numbers, if they so choose (and they will, because the Army is very macho). I’m saying that men should not be forced, especially when women are not (or have the threat hanging over their heads, as it does now- again, it’s the message of male disposability, worthless useless worthless useless expendable men).
And they accuse women of being the only ones who are solipsistic.
Jeeperz…
“… current state of affairs…”
Current state of affairs? Did I ever say anything about the current state of affairs in any of my posts on this thread, you mindless bimbo? Seems you’re even more comprehension-challenged than I originally thought. Nice one.
“In other words, you’re taking your stance on faith based on a single disaster’s numbers, rather than looking at actual data. If you’ve got time to sit here and argue, you’ve got time to actually find data that supports your position. I’m not doing your homework for you.”
The whole part about the “women and children first” meme just sailed over your pointy little head, didn’t it? Given that I’m not the one making the claim that flies in the face of all traditional wisdom, it’s not my job to go out of my way to prove the obvious.
You’re the one making the extraordinary claim here — YOU provide the evidence.
*grabs popcorn and kicks back*
So Xtra, you think that men and women should be boarded without regard to gender? Great. If that was the case on the Titanic, about 40% of men and 40% of women would have survived. That means about 450 men and 150 women would have perished. That’s not how it was.
Hey, I’m not the one trying to blame a gender here for not dying in great enough numbers — you are. The captain of the Titanic was goaded into trying to make record time, and that’s a classic example of machismo. I am not saying that men have a congenital tendency to do this, but the patriarchal culture certainly lionizes and encourages precisely that sort of behavior. He put his pride ahead of passenger safety — and it’s insane to demand some sort of gratitude for women for not dying in great enough numbers as a result of him doing that. It’s the same as if I shot you in the face and then demanded that you thank me for taking you to the hospital.
Spoken like a person who is in no danger of actually being drafted and dying in war.
How many women died in Vietnam? Oh, what, since they are not American or white, they don’t count?
(Also, Vietnam now outweighs WW2? Seriously? “History on the whole”, my foot.)
Xtra:
“more men on ship automatically = more male casualities.”
Silly little girl, don’t you realize that this would still hold true even if the mortality percentages of each sex were equal? Wtf is your point supposed to be?
Serious question for you: are you capable of counting to ten without the use of your fingers?
“Women make up half of society, and they have immense social power. ”
Women are mean and nasty and cruel and they won’t suck my dick even when I talk to them nicely for ten whole minutes and I have low self esteem and it’s totally unfair to bring up what I said earlier because I was high and posting in anger and everyone’s unfair to me and I’m leaving this blog I really mean it this time because you’re all piling on and you’re a bunch of poopyheads.
There, MRAL, I just did your next thirty posts for you.
Just stick the flounce this time, OK?
Geese Howard: If I blow you and call you Master, will you give me a donut? Pleeeease??
I am ready to give up my career, the right to vote, and every other right bestowed on a full-fledged citizen as long as Geese Howard gives me a donut and promises to give me a 50% greater chance of survival in the EXTREMELY LIKELY even we’ll find ourselves in a disaster that will take at least 2 hours to unfold.
event, that is
Amused:
“Geese Howard: If I blow you and call you Master, will you give me a donut? Pleeeease??”
Dunno. Send me a full-frontal nude photo and I will consider it. Bear in mind that applications to my harem are somewhat numerous these days, so I ain’t promising anything…
My email: [email protected]