So W. F. Price of The Spearhead has made a momentous discovery: there is a television show called Glee. In a recent post, he shared some of his findings with the regular crowd:
I’ve only recently heard of the teen drama Glee, which is evidently a big hit with the teenybopper crowd. The other day, I came across it while flicking through channels and forced myself to watch some of the show.
Apparently, it is really, really gay.
First, I have to say that I now do believe the conservative Christians are correct in saying that the media is pushing a gay agenda. Of course, I don’t really care (one can always change the channel), but it was so blatant on Glee that I couldn’t help but laugh. The show revolved around a “glee club” (an insipid American high school institution for you Brits), cheerleaders, football players, gay football players, football players in drag, football players with cheerleaders, with gay cheerleaders, etc. There was even Broadway-style singing and dancing.
The horror!
Glee is about the gayest show I’ve ever seen on TV. Even the name is gay.
So, you’re saying it’s gay.
Still, Price did have one little complaint about the show:
The gay issue aside, there was one thing about the show that, although unsurprising, was still obnoxious: it features the same old negative stereotypes about normal males. The teen sluts (both gay and straight) are the heros, while the villains are generally straight or straight-acting males … .
It’s true. No one in American society is more oppressed than “normal” dudes. How dare Glee add to this bigotry!
Shockingly, it turns out that there aren’t any Glee fans amongst the Spearhead set – at least none willing to speak up.
In the comments, Meistergedanken explained that Glee was just a part – a loud, singing part — of a devious queer conspiracy:
It’s all part of the plan. Just like “Desperate Housewives”, “American Horror Story” or “Dawson’s Creek”, or any of those other shows created by the queers, straight couples – particularly married ones – are inevitably shown to be the most hypocrital, intolerant, ignorant, mentally unbalanced and emotionally dysfunctional characters. In this way normality is portrayed as a sorry sham. …
It’s so strange to see the progressives insist on marriage for gays, while at the same time showing married couples (and the husbands/fathers especially) as the worst people out there. They want to tear down marriage so they can scrounge the tattered remains for themselves, I guess.
Towgunner, for his part, delivered up a long, rambling manifesto of sorts on the subject of the gays. Some highlights:
Is it a tragedy that gay people suffer? I honestly used to think so, but I don’t really think they suffer all that much. They seem pretty happy at their parades. Matter of fact, I’d say that a balding women (regardless of her sexuality) or a poor black family or an orphan in Africa suffer thousands of times more than some sappy fruit.
In that light homosexuals have proven to be one of the most selfish groups in all of history, right up there with women – after all they want to be women anyway. …
Furthermore, it says something about our culture that gives only homosexuals and other sluts special treatment. … All this to facilitate a small group’s ego so they feel only slightly less guilty at themselves when they orgasm. That’s where your taxpayer money goes to…to make a pervert feel good about itself.
So, apparently, the government is giving out gay orgasm grants, or something?
Andybob, meanwhile, spoke up for the gays. Or, at least, the gays who hate Glee. And women.
The first time I saw “Glee” I wanted to punch my flatscreen through the wall. Here again, gay men/teens are being shown as shallow, trite, superficial, dismissable, malleable, silly, flippant cretins with nothing to offer the world except fashion advice and sloping shoulders for whiny bitches to cry on. …
Those of us [gay men] who live far from Hollywood and have no connection whatsoever to Broadway musicals are very likely to be very aware of issues confronting men. Some of us are even vocal MRA’s. … [We’re] not handicapped by the need for sex from women. We can recognise their manipulative BS from miles away. The female psyche laid bare is an ugly thing.
Gay men like men, identify with men, actually are men. We watch men we care about like our brothers (I have a straight twin brother), fathers, and mates get ground down by a system created and maintained by feminists and their pussy-begging lackeys – and yes, some poodle-carrying flamers along for the ride. Women are always shocked to learn that most gays side with men. That’s not what they see on the telly. …
The bitchy gays who discriminate against straight men … are the manginas of the gay world. …
Women don’t like gays and straights to collaborate because they don’t want us to compare notes. I have seen women try to shame my straight friends out of hanging out with me. They are threatened by our mutual support. Together, we are able to construct a composite picture of women that would peel paint for sheer gruesomeness.
Gay men and straight men – together, united in hatred of whiny bitches!
LJ, a question for you. Just a question. I have very little experience with you, and was gone for the main blow up on the forums, so no bad blood. My question: If you think the problem is you being a cis het male asking questions, why am I so well tolerated? I’m a mod, for goodness sake. Why is Pecunium so well tolerated? What about Viscaria? Sharculese? Captain Bathrobe? Mertvaya Ruka? Kirbywarp? That’s just off the top of my head. Do you think we never have asked questions?
(apologies in advance if I misrepresented anyone above. I think I’m on target with everyone but please correct me if I’m wrong).
Because I have mad e-secks with you Nobby.
I’m a bi lady Nobby 🙂 but no worries! It’s a pretty legit question.
@Nobby – I do OK, too.
lj4: And this is a blog meant to mock MRA, not to be a safe haven for LGBT folks from well meaning cis hetero dudes like myself who supports equality for all people who also just came here to mock MRA who might not perfectly understand all the issues surrounding why saying certain things might not be received well.
Oh sweet suffering Jesus.
You don’t think you should be inhabiting safe spaces? You think think you should be allowed to make an ass of yourself, all unchallenged because you mean well?
Who cares? I mean that, I don’t care if you mean well, in general, if you are being an ass right now. Just as I don’t care to be allowed to be an ass when I step in it. This isn’t a safe space to be an ass; be it misogyny, or just plain careless about other people’s feelings.
The “bad blood” is, by and large, only in your mind (ok, it may be this thread has changed that). I am more than willing to take each statement at face value, for people I think are arguing in good faith (and for some I think more clueless than malicious; which [heaven help me] I am still, with reservations, willing to extend to MRAL).
But this comment is stripping a lot of the willingness to accept clueless, not arguments in bad faith, because this isn’t a case of your intent in this comment; you are asking that your general intent (to be a supporter of QUILTBAG) ought to be a pass for being a jerk.
Nope.
lj4: Ami: jumbo said that straight cis ppl are the oppressor class. I was hoping that all people who are cis and hetero were not being called oppressors.
Did you not read my comment? The one where I explained that none of us are special flowers? That being straight, and presenting straight = belonging to an oppressor class, no matter how much we support the oppressed?
Do you think the peasant in Japan looked at a samurai and said, “I’ll bet he’s a good one”?
Not if they wanted to keep body and soul together, because the samurai were the oppressor class. It doesn’t matter, a whit, if an individual samurai never thought of practicing tameshigiri, to not think of them as an oppressor was a fast track to making a mistake and getting sliced in two.
Whoops, I couldn’t get much more off target there could I? My apologies, Viscaria, i must have mixed you up with someone else.
lj4: Ami, I never said I deserve anything. But no, I wouldnt create a second name with the hopes that people like ithiliana would misrepresent my arguments. I am sure they would be misrepresented regardless of my name
So you are either admitting it’s a matter of content, or delivery.
Because if the same arguments are going to be understood the same way, it’s not the messenger, it’s the message.
lj4: Ami: by oppression I assumed he was saying that there are many who are. cis and straight who seek to treat those that are not as second class citizens.
Are you saying this isn’t so?
snowy: you claimed one more message by me would be considered harassment. I will post the exact messages to show how they were in no way harassing.
Logicfail: If Snowy said zie was feeling uncomfortable and that any further communication would be harrassing; any further communication was harrassment Q. E., FUCKING, D.!
No problem Nobby! 😀 The point obviously stands whether or not I’m in the group of cis het men.
Nobby: To be fair, I don’t ask questions. I have, however, stepped in it; once with jumbofish; I’ve also had go-rounds with DSC and Rutee; to say nothing of different sorts of disagreements with others (not counting the enjoyable pas des deux with such charmants gentilshommes as Geese and Meller and CrackEmcee; which are a different sort of engagement altogether).
But no, I’ve not seen that my beliefs, even when contrary, nor my behavior; even when bothersome, has been the cause of any persistent antipathy, or antagonism.
Which is why I tend to think the problem is more with either lj’s delivery, or underlying attitude. At this point, I am more inclined to believe it’s attitude.
Well, obviously I agree, Pecunium. I’ve disagreed with many people here before as well. But LJ did make that assertion, so I was wondering.
The problem, of course, isn’t that he asks questions, nor the questions that he asks. It’s the way he responds to answers.
Ugh, like to a moth to a flame I am.
Pecunium: “Are you saying this isn’t so?”
NO! See, nothing in what I have said has even come close to this yet you ask it anyway. I even later said that there ARE people who wish to treat LGBT folks as second class citizens and named a few, non exhaustive, examples. And it is sad that I feel that I have to say that the list was including but not limited to the examples I gave because some people here (like Rutee or ithiliana) would likely come along and start rattling off other examples that I did not list and attack me for not including them.
Nobby: It is things like this that. For some reason, my statements get that sort of response by several people around here. Do I share some of the blame? Sure. I am stubborn and because of my false accusation in the past I have a really hard time when people accuse me of saying something I didn’t say (or doing something I didn’t do). For lack of a better term, it just triggers me. I feel as if I must defend myself and if I do not, bad things might happen. So, as you can see right now, I just cannot let things drop and I must come back to explain. I really think that experience really fucked me in the head something good. Sometimes I think that I would have rathered it have gone to trial. At least then I could have gotten some closure with it (but maybe not, who really knows if i would have gotten closure or not).
But I even tried to just let it drop in this thread. I saw it going to a bad place early on and said lets just be done with it. And then Pecunium suggests that I was somehow in the wrong for saying “it couldn’t be talked about”. So what is it? By defending myself I am somehow making threads “about me” but if I say “look, this is getting off topic and I really do not want to debate this” i am criticized for trying to shut people up. Even in the forums, I was participating in a discussion that was going off topic and instead of continuing it there I said that we probably shouldn’t continue this here.
Pecunium: Yes, sometimes the first answer might not be enough to satisfy me so I might want to dig deeper. Is that such a horrid thing? It is such a horrible thing that I might want to find out why people who have gone through different life experiences than I feel the way that they do.
The one real mistake I can say I made on this thread was the manner in which I presented the counter argument from the Advocate to DSC. After going back and rereading it I will admit that it sounds like I was questioning the feelings being expressed about the issue in a manner that was not valuing the feelings themselves. I should have worded it a different way and I am sorry I did that.
You said earlier that YOU would say that I should treat everyone differently than I do. But honestly I have not had any real problems with the way I discuss issues in any other place. And others have made comments in a manner that basically said that I was wrong because I was a cis hetero guy and saying those things to people are not. And that tells me that I am expected to treat people who are not cis and hetero differently.
lj4:Pecunium: “Are you saying this isn’t so?”
NO! See, nothing in what I have said has even come close to this yet you ask it anyway. I even later said that there ARE people who wish to treat LGBT folks as second class citizens and named a few, non exhaustive, examples. And it is sad that I feel that I have to say that the list was including but not limited to the examples I gave because some people here (like Rutee or ithiliana) would likely come along and start rattling off other examples that I did not list and attack me for not including them.
So, either you were terribly unclear, or I (and others) are so poor at reading English that it seems you were saying that there was some intent to deny the existence of an oppressor class.
I get that you don’t want to be an oppressor. I’m even willing to grant, arguendo that you aren’t personally oppressive; but you still (as do I, and Nobby, etc.) belong to the class. Just as I am white, and belong to that oppressor class. It’s a side effect of privilege.
And no, people aren’t going to, automatically, take you to task for not including groups. What they are taking you to task for is excluding people (such as yourself).
And you didn’t just make an innocent suggestion to drop the topic. You said it ought to be dropped… after you had been called on using silencing language. You were asking people to ignore what you had done; when what you had done was an oppressive act.
You’ve also latched onto one aspect of a pretty lengthy comment from me, as if that was all I had said, as if none of the explicatory comments I’ve made were anything more than just an allegation that you didn’t believe there were people who wanted to oppress homosexuals, and deny them rights.
Way to not convince me you are dealing from the top of the deck.
lj4: You said earlier that YOU would say that I should treat everyone differently than I do. But honestly I have not had any real problems with the way I discuss issues in any other place. And others have made comments in a manner that basically said that I was wrong because I was a cis hetero guy and saying those things to people are not. And that tells me that I am expected to treat people who are not cis and hetero differently.
Nope. It’s that you ought to treat no one the way you treated Jumbofish.
lj4: The one real mistake I can say I made on this thread was the manner in which I presented the counter argument from the Advocate to DSC.
Ok, I’ll bite, what do you think you ought to have done differently? What were the specific mistakes you think you made?
What do you regret about those interactions?
Dan, I really don’t have the patience for yet another outbreak of drama with you. I think it would be better for all involved, yourself included, if you found somewhere else to post.
As a matter of interest David, would one of the words “Feminazi” or “Conspiracy” happen to be in the moderation filter? 🙂
xanthe, I don’t know why, but your comments got caught in the real spam filter and I just let them through now.
Just an FYI for everyone: I have two filters, a moderation filter (where first time commenters, banned people, and people using banned words go) and a spam filter (which usually only catches real spam). I check the moderation filter constantly, the spam filter every day or two.
Sometimes for no reason I can tell, the spam filter grabs legitimate comments. If you’ve posted a comment and it hasn’t gone up for a long time, let me know and I’ll check the spam filter and see if it’s there.
Here’s a link to the first of xanthe’s comments:
http://manboobz.com/2012/01/16/breaking-dudes-on-the-spearhead-arent-big-fans-of-glee/comment-page-4/#comment-113309
The other one is near the top of this page.
Thanks David! I think I’ll retire the other name if the spam filter is liable to grab comments made under them.
Is there some kind of Murphy’s Law that the most tiresome thread always runs the longest?
I was going to avoid addressing lj directly, because he’s a tiresome concern troll who bores me, but I do feel a need to cal out this grade A horseshit:
And this is a blog meant to mock MRA, not to be a safe haven for LGBT folks from well meaning cis hetero dudes like myself who supports equality for all people who also just came here to mock MRA who might not perfectly understand all the issues surrounding why saying certain things might not be received well.
This fuckwad really just said that queer people should be expected to have every space be unsafe for us except the rare ones we make explicitly for that purpose. He has accused jumbofish of being oversensitive, snowy of being oversensitive, and, right there, all queer people of being oversensitive for not being okay with others enacting oppressive nonsense against us in general/public spaces.
Do cis heteros get to expect not to have nasty, ignorant, erasing, etc. shit said and done to them in any space that is not explicitly a hetero safe have? See, that’s it, lj thinks that queer people fucking owe him not just that, but slack when he does harmful and oppressive shit to us, but that we don’t deserve even the former ourselves..