So W. F. Price of The Spearhead has made a momentous discovery: there is a television show called Glee. In a recent post, he shared some of his findings with the regular crowd:
I’ve only recently heard of the teen drama Glee, which is evidently a big hit with the teenybopper crowd. The other day, I came across it while flicking through channels and forced myself to watch some of the show.
Apparently, it is really, really gay.
First, I have to say that I now do believe the conservative Christians are correct in saying that the media is pushing a gay agenda. Of course, I don’t really care (one can always change the channel), but it was so blatant on Glee that I couldn’t help but laugh. The show revolved around a “glee club” (an insipid American high school institution for you Brits), cheerleaders, football players, gay football players, football players in drag, football players with cheerleaders, with gay cheerleaders, etc. There was even Broadway-style singing and dancing.
The horror!
Glee is about the gayest show I’ve ever seen on TV. Even the name is gay.
So, you’re saying it’s gay.
Still, Price did have one little complaint about the show:
The gay issue aside, there was one thing about the show that, although unsurprising, was still obnoxious: it features the same old negative stereotypes about normal males. The teen sluts (both gay and straight) are the heros, while the villains are generally straight or straight-acting males … .
It’s true. No one in American society is more oppressed than “normal” dudes. How dare Glee add to this bigotry!
Shockingly, it turns out that there aren’t any Glee fans amongst the Spearhead set – at least none willing to speak up.
In the comments, Meistergedanken explained that Glee was just a part – a loud, singing part — of a devious queer conspiracy:
It’s all part of the plan. Just like “Desperate Housewives”, “American Horror Story” or “Dawson’s Creek”, or any of those other shows created by the queers, straight couples – particularly married ones – are inevitably shown to be the most hypocrital, intolerant, ignorant, mentally unbalanced and emotionally dysfunctional characters. In this way normality is portrayed as a sorry sham. …
It’s so strange to see the progressives insist on marriage for gays, while at the same time showing married couples (and the husbands/fathers especially) as the worst people out there. They want to tear down marriage so they can scrounge the tattered remains for themselves, I guess.
Towgunner, for his part, delivered up a long, rambling manifesto of sorts on the subject of the gays. Some highlights:
Is it a tragedy that gay people suffer? I honestly used to think so, but I don’t really think they suffer all that much. They seem pretty happy at their parades. Matter of fact, I’d say that a balding women (regardless of her sexuality) or a poor black family or an orphan in Africa suffer thousands of times more than some sappy fruit.
In that light homosexuals have proven to be one of the most selfish groups in all of history, right up there with women – after all they want to be women anyway. …
Furthermore, it says something about our culture that gives only homosexuals and other sluts special treatment. … All this to facilitate a small group’s ego so they feel only slightly less guilty at themselves when they orgasm. That’s where your taxpayer money goes to…to make a pervert feel good about itself.
So, apparently, the government is giving out gay orgasm grants, or something?
Andybob, meanwhile, spoke up for the gays. Or, at least, the gays who hate Glee. And women.
The first time I saw “Glee” I wanted to punch my flatscreen through the wall. Here again, gay men/teens are being shown as shallow, trite, superficial, dismissable, malleable, silly, flippant cretins with nothing to offer the world except fashion advice and sloping shoulders for whiny bitches to cry on. …
Those of us [gay men] who live far from Hollywood and have no connection whatsoever to Broadway musicals are very likely to be very aware of issues confronting men. Some of us are even vocal MRA’s. … [We’re] not handicapped by the need for sex from women. We can recognise their manipulative BS from miles away. The female psyche laid bare is an ugly thing.
Gay men like men, identify with men, actually are men. We watch men we care about like our brothers (I have a straight twin brother), fathers, and mates get ground down by a system created and maintained by feminists and their pussy-begging lackeys – and yes, some poodle-carrying flamers along for the ride. Women are always shocked to learn that most gays side with men. That’s not what they see on the telly. …
The bitchy gays who discriminate against straight men … are the manginas of the gay world. …
Women don’t like gays and straights to collaborate because they don’t want us to compare notes. I have seen women try to shame my straight friends out of hanging out with me. They are threatened by our mutual support. Together, we are able to construct a composite picture of women that would peel paint for sheer gruesomeness.
Gay men and straight men – together, united in hatred of whiny bitches!
Really Dan? Spamming all over the forum about how the mods and specifically this mod were out to get you and the forum was the most horrible place ever after I told you to quit pming me about your locked thread wasn’t harassment? What was it then? Jumbo telling you to cut it out was him being oversensitive? You seem to really want to cast yourself as the beleaguered voice of reason here but no one seems to be buying it. Maybe because they have slightly longer memories than goldfish.
@leni
I am responding to this: http://manboobz.com/2012/01/16/breaking-dudes-on-the-spearhead-arent-big-fans-of-glee/comment-page-3/#comment-112701
Ah thats ok if you didn’t know. I wasn’t sure if that was a figure of speech or you really didn’t know.
oooppps quote fail let me repost that:
@leni
I am responding to this: http://manboobz.com/2012/01/16/breaking-dudes-on-the-spearhead-arent-big-fans-of-glee/comment-page-3/#comment-112701
Ah thats ok if you didn’t know. I wasn’t sure if that was a figure of speech or you really didn’t know.
Since you seem to not know a lot about trans issues I will say its a big no no to refer to a trans person with their pronoun assigned at birth. The person you were referring to is a woman so you shouldn’t call them “he” even when describing them before they transitioned. (or even if they haven’t transitioned you shouldn’t call them by their birth gender).
Well I am unsure of why you focused on trans people but dsc was just saying that queer people are more qualified than nonqueer people with discussions related to the lgtb. Straight cis people are the oppressor class so I can see why queers would not trust them when dealing with their issues. I trust my fellow queer people more than say lj4adotcomdan when it comes to lgtb issues because they actual have to live with it.
The trans person you are referring to does have a say on women’s issues because as you put it “she has lived on both sides”. If you are a cis hetero you have not lived as a lgtb person has so yeah you do have less of a voice in the discussion with those issues. Your personal feelings may be hurt but that really doesn’t matter.
Snowy: The claim of harassment by you was made prior to me posting about your claims of harassment on the forum. Do you want me to share the PM’s of what you thought constituted harassment?
“I trust my fellow queer people more than say lj4adotcomdan when it comes to lgtb issues because they actual have to live with it. ”
As anyone should.
lol why not say why you think I am oversensitive dan? You already made such a bid deal about it and I am so interested in hearing what you I did that was “oversensitive”.
“Straight cis people are the oppressor class ”
Of which many seek to fight said oppression. I am sure you are aware of that though and I would assume that you are not trying to put all straight cis people into one large group of oppressors. If I am wrong, you are free to correct me.
Jumbo: I gave one example in this thread that was pertinent to this thread. I was not going to bring in other examples because I did not want to rehash that entire incident that is not of the topic of this thread.
Seriously, leave. Now.
lj4: Were you wrong about Jumbofish being oversenstive? I don’t know. Because I don’t know what in Jumbofish’s experience might have affected his response to that comment of yours.
Were you wrong to say he was? Yes.
Were you wrong to bundle all previous interactions into that response? Yes, because you didn’t detail them,
You did say it was something people shouldn’t talk about; you said that talking about it was derailing. You tried to make it off-limits.
Cassandra: In my dealings with jumbo, it is my opinion that jumbo is oversensitive.
Any more comment on this would just be: 1) Defend myself against people misrepresenting my words. 2) Back and forth ensues over the meaning of words. 3) People say that I am making the thread about me when the person who actually made the thread about me is the person insisting on misrepresenting my words. 4) David having to step in and ask us to get back on topic.
So I will just leave it at that and get back to the topic being discussed.
You said that talking about it was counterproductive. You said that talking about it would cause David to tell people to stop talking about it. You said that talking about what you did would be changing the subject.
You did all those passive-aggressive things to stop the conversation about what you did.
The thing is… this isn’t about, “others insist on talking about their misconceptions of what I say and I defend myself when they do so,” It’s about what you said, and what it means, and the larger context in which those specific phrases are used.
And it’s about you saying that talking about those is mean to you, and unfair, and off-topic.
Which is bullshit.
You really want to do that Dan? I guess you have some reading comprehension issues because telling you via pm that the discussion was over several times and then telling you to stop pming me about it and that if you continued I would consider it harassment is not a “claim of harassment”. What you did after that – spamming the forum, posting the pm exchange, calling Jumbo oversensitive when he told you to cut it out – that right there is my claim of harassment. So if you think sharing the private messages that were sent would prove your case go right ahead. Sadly for you there’s really nothing in them that does.
lj4: You seem to have a problem with the difference between a class, and the individuals in it.
I am straight. That means I am part of an oppressor class. What I, personally, think, feel, do, in the interest of supporting QUILTBAG persons doesn’t change that. Someone who sees me sees a male, and a straight male, and will lump in with other straight males. They may do it for any number of reasons. They may think I will agree with them that homosexuals are the evil of the world, they may think I am “straight but not narrow”, they may think any number of things. But I am lumped.
If I want to be unlumped I have to do something to be separate from the class.
I’ve been on the flip side of that too, lumped into a class I didn’t really expect to be in.
I’ve been, strangely, black; or at least mixed race. My second step-father was black. When people saw that they often assumed I was “high yellow” (really high… this boy is whiter than Ivory Snow). When we were robbed, the cops were perfectly polite to me, until my stepfather came to the door. Then it was notebooks done, “thank you very much, we’ll be right on it” and we never heard from them again.
Right then, they were acting as the oppressor class.
You don’t get a pass because you mean well. You have to walk the walk, all the time, and accept that you will make mistakes, one hopes without intent. I’ve been refraining from making a joke at an assholes expense elsewhere. It would be on target against them, but utterly wrong because of the underlying message; which is what would make it on target.
I could make that selfsame joke with vast number of my friends, because the underlying message would be different.
If you cant keep those things sorted out… you are going to have lots of trouble in spaces like this.
@dan
I C wut u did thar. Me worrying about you marginalizing queer people is not the same as you worrying that I am marginalizing straight cis people. But it should be pretty clear that I am not saying that. Being part of the oppressor class doesn’t necessarily make you an oppressor.
I stole the phrase “oppressor class” from shadow actually XD
Yes, comedy fans everywhere, it’s Yet Another lj4adotcomdan Thread Meltdown!!!
So you don’t have to read through the reams of tedious junk, here’s a synopsis of the thread meltdown so far, with a catalogue of Dan’s
derailscomments in this thread! (And some very loose paraphrases!)Page 1
1. Glee is awesome. People who don’t like it aren’t decent people.
Page 2
2. Two of the bullies are closeted.
3. Bullying and outing scenes don’t occur in a vacuum.
4. MRAs should make their own tv show if they know shows that will infuriate them.
Page 3
5. Someone disagrees with DSC! (See derailingfordummies.com/#backup )
6. Jumbo is oversensitive to disagree with Dan! ( derailingfordummies.com/#sensitive )
7. Doubles down on Jumbo being oversensitive! ( Likewise, derailingfordummies.com/#true )
8. Politicians are an ok outing target.
9. I will not continue this discussion or get into a back and forth over this.
10. Why would cis-hetero people who agree with 8. be thought untrustworthy? (Interesting variation on #playfair )
11. Because you can’t agree on the topic, my position is okay, and also people complaining just want to be offended. ( #enjoyit )
This page
12. Defending the people who complained were deliberately taking offense dodge.
13. I’m just asking questions. ( #educate )
14. Some people can find a use for misogyny. (I didn’t say it was a good use!) ( #offence , #baitswitch )
15. Tedious explaining why previous comments weren’t up to scratch.
16. You missed my bait’n’switch, you’re oversensitive! ( #asbad )
17. Includes criticising a French woman for not recalling minutiæ of the last US election.
18. More defending previous comments which weren’t up to scratch.
19. Rehash of 14: it’s not me that said it! ( #baitswitch )
20. I am not lecturing anybody on anything LGBT.
21. Again, defensively defending previous comments which weren’t up to scratch. I should have thought more before posting.
22. Taking issue with a reaction to previous comments which weren’t up to scratch as being contrary.
23. Taking a breather from responding to all of the responses.
24. No actually, I really do believe the guy is oversensitive ( #true )
25. You’re disingenuous, so I’m not paying any attention to you ( #notlistening )
26. How is what I say not true? All I’m doing is just defending myself, not really derailing ( #true )
27. I really don’t want to bring in other details, but I’m still right ( #true )
28. Do you want me to derail further by bringing in details?
29. Even I agree you shouldn’t listen to me on this topic.
30. Not all cis people are oppressors. ( # innocent , or reverse application of #denydeny )
31. The details I think are relevant, are relevant.
And there you have it! It’s not all about Dan at all, is it?!
Yeah, jumbo is oversensitive and I’m an angry queer…
Moving on to other things than lj’s concern trolling/’splainin, the issue of bi’s and passing as hetero is interesting to me, as a bi person who in the vast majority of situations has usually been pegged as queer. When people are surprised that I am bi, it is usually because they presumed I was a lesbian. There is quite the spectrum in presentations, dating habits, etc. Some gay and lesbian people pass as hetero more easily than some bi people.
To the criticism of me calling Jumbo oversensitive because I am cis-hetero and jumbo is a member of an oppressed class… I never knew what classification Jumbo fell under until this thread where it was stated. All I knew about Jumbo was the user id, the fact Jumbo is a mod, and that we have had previous issues. So I just treated Jumbo as I would any other poster.
But even if I had known. The suggestion is that I should be treating Jumbo differently because of it? Seriously? Because the suggestion that people should be treated differently based on their classification is not something I can support. I am not about to give anyone special treatment.
The suggestion is that you should be treating everyone differently.
The suggestion is that you should have treated him the way you say you treat people (i.e. ask questions, listen to answers).
I refrained from making it about you and Jumbofish, per se. You should have done that too.
But don’t worry, I, at least, didn’t give you special treatment… which seems to be contrary to the view you have about the way we are treating you. You think you are being singled out for some reason.
At least from me, this is not the case; you aren’t that important.
@DSC: . Some gay and lesbian people pass as hetero more easily than some bi people.
Damn (*hee*) straight!
The thing that so many people don’t understand (and that is tied up in heternormativity) is the assumption that a certain sexual orientation must be tied to a certain gender presentation must be tied to well whatever else. They don’t believe in lesbians who present in ways that meet hetero-patriarchial “feminine” stereotypes–and straight women who present in ways associated with traditional hetero-patriarchal “masculine” stereotypes, ditto. People don’t want to deal with complexity. They want simple binaries, and simple labels on the tabs and slots, and so on and so forth.
*fills out 4th square on LJ4 BINGO card* (the one with “special treatment” in it)
@LJ: three more of the right ones, and I get BINGO!
“Straight cis people are the oppressor class ”
lj4adotcomdan – “Of which many seek to fight said oppression. I am sure you are aware of that though and I would assume that you are not trying to put all straight cis people into one large group of oppressors. If I am wrong, you are free to correct me.”
Even for you, splainin’ man, that’s beautiful. *siowclap*
I guess one big part about being bi is that if you’re in an opposite-sex relationship you can openly introduce people to your partner and potentially stay in the closet.
I pass, easily. I could probably pass as straight my whole life if I wanted to, since I’m unlikely to get into a relationship with a woman (I’m heteroromantic — I think? Almost always?) It makes me reluctant to get too involved in conversations like this, because I’m a lot less at risk than a lot of less gender-conforming folks. It’s also a big part of why I identify as bi but not queer. Calling myself queer feels like appropriating.
It comes with its own disadvantages, I guess. Ever come out to someone and have them answer “No, trust me, you’re really not”? Annoying. But that’s absolutely nothing compared to the assumed straight privilege almost everyone automatically grants me. I have the huge privilege of choosing when and to whom I will come out.
I find the idea of being outed to people I haven’t chosen to be out to really scary >.> but I also recognize, as others have said, that a lot of people don’t have a choice in the same way I do.
Of which many seek to fight said oppression. I am sure you are aware of that though and I would assume that you are not trying to put all straight cis people into one large group of oppressors. If I am wrong, you are free to correct me.
Who do you think should be exempt and why? What do you define as “one large group pof oppressors” that you oppose? o_O
@Ami
The Yellow Lanterns! *Goes out to buy a lantern*
@dan
I actually said I was a queer person before to you in the gender equal society thread. I made more of a big deal of it in that thread than here to so you should know. (scratch that you did know: http://manboobz.forummotion.com/t644p60-many-men-are-lost-in-the-wilderness-and-other-bon-mots-from-lj#17698)
I am getting sick of you obsessively talking about me. Also are you seriously debating if I am “too sensitive” right now? Wow how emotionally controlling is that. I am allowed to feel concern about issues especially issues that hit close to fucking home.
I am a person not a debate topic so please stop talking about me like I am one ok?