Reactionary and “traditionalist” Men’s Rightsers tend to share a lot of the anti-Islam prejudices of the American right in general. When they talk about Islam it’s usually in vaguely apocalyptic terms, and usually with a side of anti-feminist conspiratorialism thrown in for good measure: Feminists are destroying Western Civilization and making the Muslim takeover inevitable!
But I’ve run across a few highly upvoted comments on the Spearhead recently which suggest that the generally less than warm feelings about Islam found in the Manospehre may be tinged with a certain amount of envy and even admiration.
Take this Rapses fellow here:
It is high time papa (patriarchy) take some harsh measures to discipline her little naughty girls (feminists). Papa has yielded too much to their tantrum and whining. Spare the rod and spoil the child. Western papa has to toughen up a bit and tell them that their stupid whims would not be met. These little girls are really not that tough as they show and still need papa to provide and protect them. See how Saudi papa deals with his girls and still his girls are not complaining.
51 upvotes, 10 downvotes, last I checked.
And then there’s Aharon :
I think there are many American women that American men would prefer to burqad up for their obese figures and even more obese whining mouths. Perhaps we can customize the burqad in America to include a dog muzzle. …
Feminism along with its allies has been very effective the past 45+ years in decimating the nuclear family along with traditional American values and ethics, and loyalty to church and synagogue. Most religious institutions are failing men in America. … Men leave liberal places of worship because they can’t relate to the female-value emphasis. …
American men have been living – for generations – in a post Judeo-Christian modern American misandrist society that for the most part sold men out. Islam comes along and teaches Sharia Law will not discriminate against men, and that men are respected in Islam, etc. Bingo. … I can see American men in the future becoming increasingly interested in Islam.
He adds this bit of speculation at the end:
I can also see new pro Men’s religions being created and taking hold. I see them mostly as manly without the provider/protector/chivalry crap, and not mangina metro-sexual in their beliefs and values.
30 upvotes, 1 downvote.
Apparently any religion is okey dokey with this crowd – even one made up on the spot – so long as it’s butch enough.
I can pee in an arc. I don’t know what y’all are talking about.
@Holly: I doubt it will do anything. The MRM’s whole shtick is that they’re being persecuted for not buying into feminism. Nothing will make them happy.
All right, I suppose having a kid is a big deal. I was just casually conversing.
Adding myself in as another feminist with a bellyful of baby. 36w4d today. Due on Feb 4.
I find it feels equal parts awesome and uncomfortably bizarre having this living thing. Inside me. Moving around. It’s for the most part not uncomfortable when the baby kicks, though yes, diaphragm and rib kicks are not the most pleasant things. I sometimes say “oof” when I get kicked, but not because of any pain or discomfort, just because of sudden odd movement that is happening in my body but out of my control.
But there are definite downsides. I have to take daily blood thinning shots, and starting next week that moves to twice daily. Also, I have a disturbing tendency to get faint and BOY HOWDY the sudden rushes of hormones and also lack of ability to concentrate/remember things. Being pregnant has absolutely made me more pro choice, because no one should have to have this happen to their body if they don’t want it to . Oh, also, baby is dropping. Imagine walking around with a big rock between your hips. Yeah, not comfy.
Kristin. DO NOT BUY NEW MATERNITY CLOTHES. I got all mine at resale shops. Paid less than $100 for two dresses, three pairs of pants, two pairs of jeans, two skirts, and a shirt. Resale shops are the bomb, especially if you have ones locally that are focussed on maternity and baby clothes (I am lucky to have 2 within a 30 minute drive).
In the United States anyway, the realities of pregnancy and birth, as well as baby care, breastfeeding, etc. are pretty hidden from most people. You have to actively seek out the information. Now that most people have high-speed Internet and many even have mobile, it’s easier to find answers to whatever questions you want to ask, but it wasn’t always the case (I looked shit up in medical textbooks as a kid and teen), and you’re still not going to find any useful information in the mainstream media. It also seems like a lot of women whitewash their experiences with pregnancy to put on a good front for other people, whether it’s because they feel they’ll be bad mothers if they don’t or because it’s expected of the female gender role. I have met women who had really terrible pregnancies, but would pretend theirs were nothing but happy, blissful moments full of pink, fluffy clouds.
Is it unladylike or unacceptable to discuss basic biology? It’s 2012 and we still have women’s magazines selling the old, “All women love babies and have a natural biological clock, and just ooze oxytocin and bond with the wonderful experiences of pregnancy and motherhood.” Are the lady’s mags like that in the UK and elsewhere as well?
Science and medicine always fascinated me, so I sought out the information about what human reproduction involves from a fairly early age, and that information allowed me to make the choice that it wasn’t the right choice for me. I kinda wonder if the information blackout is deliberate, though, because I have read and personally heard too many stories of women being heartbroken when things weren’t what they expected them to be. They were told pregnancy was easy and simple, it takes care of itself no problemo, and they’d love it, and when the time came, they found it to be anything but simple and carefree – some even hated being pregnant. Then, they’d feel shame and fear because their actual feelings were in conflict with the “it’s beautiful, pink, and fluffy 100 percent of the time” narrative. It’s funny that the American pregnancy narrative still looks like how Steve Jobs sold the iPhone – “It’s beautiful. It just works.”
@CassandraSays: Do you have any siblings who want kids? Mine, and getting older have worked wonders for getting me off the hook.
Also, even removing the telling women what to do with their own bodies element…there are a whole lot of kids in the system waiting to be adopted. To add another for reasons as trivial as “I want to see what the kicking feels like!” would be pretty damn selfish and stupid.
“No posts from r/mensrights until February 1st, 2012″
On Christmas, instead of counting their blessings, MRAs started a thread complaining about SRS. The /SRS mods felt sorry for them, and decided to hold a moratorium on MR posts as a “Politically Correctmas” present. It’s also popularly believed that /MR was “low hanging fruit,” e.g the same reason they don’t post shit from /beatingwomen and /whiterights. I personally believe /MR belongs on /SRS because of the subreddit’s size and influence, so I’ll welcome it’s return to the mockery chamber.
@ Anti-Moron’s-Rights
Nope, I’m an only child, hence the extra level of pressure. Also my stepmother has no kids so I think she’s convinced that I will regret it much like she does, even though she always wanted kids and just didn’t find the right partner until she was too old to have them, whereas I never wanted them.
Also, what I said could definitely apply to most guys as well, who have no idea what reproduction is really like. My man knows, as he watched the delivery of all of his sisters (mom was into herbalism, homeopathy, homebirths, etc.), but many of my other guy friends and exes have been amazingly ignorant.
I find that the people with the most knowledge of pregnancy (and any other “controversial” health topic, be it HIV, abortion, etc.), besides physicians and scientists, are feminists.
Ah, sorry if I Kristin. I’ve been reading wired a lot lately. The story about drug resistant TB in India is scary and depressing too 🙁
Er… um… Look! new cute animals! 🙂 🙂
*if I upset ya
@David: “I think Raoul is just fucking with us.”
I wish. I have had my soul scourged and my conscience laid waste, replaced with an iron will to carry out the RIGHTFUL DESTINY OF MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By the way, feminists tell women what to do with their bodies all the time. “Don’t punch people!”, “Don’t assault people!”, “Hire women!”. Not saying this is unreasonable, but it opens a can of worms.
Poe’s Law in Action.
Come on now, Xardoz, “hire women” is totally “telling people what to do with their bodies. Corporations are people, legally speaking, and women are…the bodies of corporations?
I just realized I probably should have used i.e instead of e.g…. fml what has reddit done to me
I for one see no difference between “get pregnant” and “don’t assault people.” They’re both telling people what to do with their bodies!
Also they both contain the letters A and E. That’s got to be at least as significant.
the feminist vowel conspiracy unravels
If I was in that position I would want to have kids just for the experience.
I suspect you really wouldn’t. I mean, don’t get me wrong – I like babies, and pregnancy is indeed pretty cool, but very few people besides seriously hardcore masochists really look forward to the “experience” of, say, an episiotomy.
MRAL, here’s an answer to your prayers:
http://www.empathybelly.org/home.html
Maybe we should try addressing MRAL in a way that’s more appropriate to his level of emotional maturity.
Thread drift time again! Did you know that Cookie Monster had a mom? I did not.
Am I the only one who finds that belly weird?
Behind as usual:
Captain Bathrobe, it’s not just the heartbeat. Babies prefer their mothers voices and even a story read before birth over a new one. The sounds they hear also acclimate them to their environment. Babies whose mothers lived in a flight path while pregnant slept through the planes, while babies lived on a flight path after birth only reacted to them. There’s a whole field of prenatal psychology that’s really interesting.
As for movement, that is the one thing I’m going to really miss with being done having babies. It’s pretty cool. I wish we could record sensations and not just images. Although I could do without feeling like a couple spots are bruised from being jabbed regularly.
Kristin, I didn’t realize this was your first. That’s awesome. I hope you’ve found some of the better books/info out there and not just the stuff that tells you drs are always right. I’m actually studying midwifery & have been researching birth and pregnancy for over 10 yrs now, and I really like for people to be well informed and have the best birth they can.
Sorry for the continued derail. I should really just sign up for the forum. lol
I’m kind of glad that the topic has drifted to babies. It’s preferable to those fine fellows who want women silent and out of sight.
To those of you on here who are pregnant, good luck!
Skyal, I can verify that babies born to mothers living in flight paths sleep through the sound of planes. I was born on a military base (fifty-mumble years ago).
I tell people that my first lullabies were Strategic Air Command bombers running touch and go drills. I don’t even hear planes when awake unless I am listening for them specifically.
And I sleep, well, like a baby when travelling by plane to this day.