Some links for Friday night:
Jezebel’s Anna North takes up the question “What Should You Do When Someone You Love Becomes a Men’s Rights Activist?”
North quotes me and Hugo Schwyzer on the topic. Here’s the extended remix of my remarks:
Unfortunately, in most cases, I don’t think it’s possible to talk someone out of a Men’s Rights obsession. For most of them, it seems to be driven not by facts — they’re happy to simply make up facts to fit their worldview — but by feelings, most obviously by rage at women. If they were driven by actual interest in issues, they probably would have accomplished something by now; in reality, only the overlapping but more politically focused Father’s Rights movement has actually had much of an effect on the real world, for better or worse. For most MRAs, the closest they come to activism is leaving angry comments everywhere online — or harassing individual women online in a manner similar to the ways abusers stalk the objects of their obsessions.
The one argument I think you can make to MRAs who are not too far gone is this: it’s not healthy for you to spend so much time stewing in your anger online. Instead of trying to help men work through their personal issues with women, the MRM encourages men to cultivate their rages and hatreds, to remain stuck. That’s not healthy for them, or for society at large.
North’s post was inspired by a recent Dear Prudence question on Slate from a girl whose dad had recently gone all MRA on her. (It’s here, scroll down a bit to the question that starts “Dad-Related Dilemma.:)
The guys at The Spearhead also had a whack at the Dear Prudence question here. Needless to say their perspective is a little different than mine or Hugo’s.
And while I’m doing links, here’s another misogyny-related post on Jezebel: Founder of Possible Sex Tourist Website Creates Elaborate Ad Campaign Telling Men to Beware of Marriage
It’s a lot of the same old shit we’ve seen before from marriage-hating MGTOWers and Western-women-haters. But entertaining nonetheless.
And last but not least: checking my traffic today I discovered that Man Boobz is big in Brazil! By which I mean, a professor at the Federal University of Ceará is a fan, and has started making fun of obnoxious Brazilian misogynists on her blog. Olá Lola!
As far as I can tell from the badly Google-translated version of her blog, the Brazilian versions of Man Boobz (Homens Idiotas?) are pretty much identical to our Man Boobz, right on down to their obsessions with alphas and betas and all that crap.
Bobbyjo, one can be pro-women without being anti-men.
First, according to current studies, domestic abuse is much more equal than previously thought: in fact, 50% of emotional abuse survivors are male. Although (MRAs take note) domestic violence is not equal and women are far more likely to be injured through domestic violence and be a survivor of severe domestic violence, men are ALSO survivors of domestic violence.
Second, I am pretty sure men are concerned about things besides pussy and fast cars and strip bars.
Third, the vast majority of men are not violent, and in the proper circumstances women can be just as violent as men.
“All men care about is pussy and fast cars and strip bars. ” Not all, certainly?
Of course not. There is also bacon.
can i say, having worked in DV shelters and in homelessness shelters for 15years, i can categorically say that the majority of shelters are men only, with the female shelters tending to focus on DV survivors. Whilst, overwhelmingly, the women i have worked with have experienced DV, there was still a substantial percentage of women who were homeless due to other reasons and are therefore excluded from accessing DV shelters with few other options. From my experience of working with men, emotional abuse is certainly a factor in their current situation but not usually the precipitating factor in their homelessness.
as for why they keep the hostels/shelters male-only or female only, where i have seen mixed gender hostels, they have ended up having to segregate men and women due to women’s safety being at risk from the men making sexual advances and being physically aggressive. i can think of two hostels in the city where i worked which installed heavy security doors between the women’s and men’s section of the hostel in a stated aim to protect the women.
@CassandraSays – TS is annoying, yeah. but what’s that high-pitched whining noise itching my ear? Oh wow, it’s Buttman! 😉
Well, I can thank the badly Google-translated version of “Escreva Lola Escreva” for the hilarious notion that 20% of the men eat 80% of the women. 😀
“Explore nature: men ruined the world with violence, war, and everything else. ”
,…
I know you go tongue in cheek, bobbyjo, but no. The stupid “men had to fight in the wars at the behest of the women and they all sat around eating bon bons” version is crap, but women were and are participants, even though subordinate participants, in warmongering. And everything else. Patriarchy led to violence and war, okay. Kyriarchy, much better. (Statismdiditisstillmyfavorite *ahem*.) but no. Men didn’t do it.
All men care about is pussy and fast cars and strip bars.
Speak for yourself, dude.
Took the words right out of my mouth Dracula. I don’t know if that was supposed to be a joke or what bobbyjo but if not then seriously wtf.
and bobbyjo I shouldn’t have to say this to you but not all guys are straight O_o
Also WTF is up with the “innocent weak women” trope you know thats sexist right? O_o
No, they really wouldn’t. She does not have a steady income, she does not have a home, she does not have any clothing or furniture for the children to use, she is incapable of participating in their lives in any meaningful way because it interrupts her partying, and she gets so many DUIs that she doesn’t have a valid license and yet drives anyway. My brother would easily win custody.
And seriously, “decided she wanted to be an alcoholic?” How many levels of stupid can you have in one post?
Regarding the father in the Dear Prudence article, you’re purposely ignoring my point. It’s the father’s reaction to being wronged that makes him an asshole.
blitzgal, good luck arguing with someone who think that “The reason [the writer] is so butthurt is because she knows her mother is a slut.” is an argument.
@jumbofish
Ironically, I seem to remember bobbyjo saying that he was gay. If I recall wrong, then I apologise to bobbyjo.
yes I recall him saying that as well which is why i said he should know better than to assume all men “like pussies”.
“Ironically, I seem to remember bobbyjo saying that he was gay. If I recall wrong, then I apologise to bobbyjo.”
Same here, ergo my surprised reaction. Maybe he meant straight men? Not that he would make it better, but it would be more logical.
Hahaha, yeah. As soon as I posted I realised that that’s probably what you meant 🙂
Truth be told, Jezebel, this website, and innumerable feminist oriented echo chambers talk about, denigrate, agitate against MRA’s and the MRA because it scares them. They know, as does David Futrelle, that the movement is going to get bigger. Consider demographics, young men – you know the hipsters and the dudes with the scraggly beards that have popped up over every urban landscape, the actual Occupy Movement, not the girlios that show up to party with them, but the unemployed guys are not going to slide into middle age easily when they have been under educated and ignored by our society. As they more and more realize that they’ve been fucked by their government, and by social movements, they will become politcized. As the American economy starts to correct itself into a lower standard of living (remember, our standard of living his been falsely lifted by massive personal debt, which is less available now) the proverbial “men leaning against the wall” will be a threat to all this bullshit that we all think so important. Why is there some much legislation trying to control the internet? Why are they trying to get american citizens treated like foreign terrorists in the NDAA? They know it’s coming.
Should be interesting though.
The MRAs could literally not care less about disenfranchised young men, particularly if those young men are brown.
Hi Mags!
That stuff already happened, it was called the “Tea Party”. And yes, they are scary and no, we don’t want any more of them.
You know that most feminists oppose these things, right? Heck, a number of the mainstream feminist blogs David has on his li’l’ sidebar covered the recent shenanigans w/r/t the NDAA.
For most of them, it seems to be driven not by facts — they’re happy to simply make up facts to fit their worldview
******************
Project much?
tl;dr mags
you feminists are just scared because my petty hate movement is only kinda getting bigger!!!
the hipsters will become mras!!!
also women never work!!! the only reason they show up to occupy protests is for “the party”!!
CB: Of course not. There is also bacon.
And guns. 🙂 And horses. And motorcycles.
And magritte of duck.
And coffee.
I don’t want to know what magritte of duck actually is, because the awesome Magritte painting visuals I’m getting are so so much better than bridging a gap in my foodie knowledge could ever be !!! XD
mmm… Coffee.
Crap…. it’s probably a magret.
It’s a breast of duck, scored on the skin side, and cooked in a skillet, skin side down, to render out the fat, and and crisp the skin, cut into thin slices and served with a sauce (I like a pan-sauce, with some calvados, shallots and a hint of summer herbs, or perhaps some figs/dates to give it a fruity sweetness).
What I want to know is, how did beer and sports not get in there. that’s the problem with kids these days, no appreciation for the classic stereotypes.
*walks off muttering*