Over on Reddit, DoktorTeufel has a problem: he likes the ladies, but he doesn’t like the feminists. Unfortunately, some ladies are also feminists! And therein lies the danger. Naturally, he turns to the fellas in the Men’s Rights subreddit for help.
I’m just going to come out and say it: I will never knowingly enter into a romantic relationship with a feminist. I do have some female relatives and acquaintances who are feminists … and it’s not like they all wear signs that proclaim I’M A FEMINIST. (Some do.)
Aside from obvious telltales (feminist bumper stickers, etc.) or outright asking them “Are you a feminist?”, what are some discreet ways to ferret out a woman’s views on gender activism without creating an awkward situation? Feminism is a minefield topic, and I certainly wouldn’t broach the subject directly with a woman I’ve just started dating.
Naturally, this being the Men’s Rights subreddit, he received much helpful advice. Celda broke it down for him:
You don’t really care whether she identifies as a feminist or not – you care what her views are.
For instance, does she feel women have the right to force men into parental obligations against their will?
Does she feel women are oppressed in Western society?
Does she think that women make less money than men for the same work?
If yes to these questions or similar, then you probably want to avoid her.
Exactly. Always avoid those with a basic grasp on reality. They’re the worst!
Naive1000 suggested looking for more subtle clues.
Ask their thoughts on “benevolent sexism” if they know what your talking about you likely have a feminist. Just to make sure go into male privilege, it’s the feminists’ most popular talking point. Let her talk about it then you can see what she’s really like. But, there are some women who call themselves feminists, but are really egalitarian: they just don’t know the term.
Memymineown also suggests a subtle approach, and holds out hope that some of the younger feminist girls can be won back to the path of righteousness:
Bring Men’s Rights issues into the conversation subtly. I was talking with my family about Justin Beiber and brought up the paternity charge and no rape charges filed against the woman.
That led into a discussion about how women aren’t punished for rape.
Just do things like that.
But you shouldn’t exclude all feminists. I would say that the vast majority are just girls(I do use that word on purpose) who have been lied to. Once you show them the real facts they will probably come around.
ThePigman, by contrast, urges DoktorTeufel to go for the jugular:
Why do you need to be discrete about it? Just ask her. If she is a member of the cult she will start screaming about the patriarchy, then her head will explode.
It’s true. Pretty much every conversation involving feminists quickly devolves into screaming about patriarchy. Heck, a feminist friend and I once screamed about patriarchy for five hours straight. We probably could have gone longer, but the manager at Applebee’s, evidently not a feminist, threw us out. Sometimes I start screaming about patriarchy when no one else is around, just to keep in practice.
Conversations with feminists pretty much all go like the conversation in the video below, only instead of a cat you need to picture a feminist, and instead of the word “no,” the word “patriarchy.” You can see how annoying that might get, and not just to Hitler.
MRAL, if you want folks to be less hostile, stop insulting both them and women as a group, and apologize if you do so.
@Holly Pervocracy
“Be honest with you, NWO, men and women kind of both get raw deals on the kid front.”
Exactly, Holly. Thank you.
There was no reason to follow up that admission with stay-at-home parent is all cotton candy and ponies and wanting to increase womens wages/opportunities.
Child care doesn’t help. It is socialism. In order to have childcare as part of a package, that money is taken from the workers. It is also extra money to run whatever agency is needed, insurance ect.
Here’s how the numbers work out.
100 employees.
Each pays an extra $80.00 a month to pay for all these expenses. 80 x 100 = $8000.00 per month. $8000.00 x 12 months = $96,000.00 per year.
4 women per year use this for six months, each woman got paid her wage for 6 months. We’ll say they made 40k a year which equal 80K a year.
The company now hires a temp for 3/4s of the womans wage for that time = 60K.
The human resource job was created for dealing with pregnancies and temp hiring and all associated paperwork who gets paid 40K a year.
The total cost is 40 + 60 + 80 + 96 = 276K per year.
That money will not be paid by the employer. The company must profit or perish. Each employee must therefore pay for said services which = $2,760.00 per year per employee. Times that by 100 million people working = 276 billion dollars a year.
That 276 billion dollars would’ve been poured into the economy feuling, sustaining and creating jobs.
Socialism doesn’t work.
MRAL, no we’re are not automatically hostile. You brought hostility; “This BullShit, dishonest debating”, you brought anger and bitterness, you’ve derailed the thread by making this about you when it’s clearly not. And you’ve received fair, though sometimes angered, reactions. And don’t think people telling you to go breathe (which is something people here often tell you) is the same as a fuck-off.
And yet despite the huge amount of time I’ve spent here, everyone is perpetually hostile.
Is this a joke?
I’m sure that isn’t the only reason companies have HR people, NWO. 😛
It was real words that you really said.
I don’t think that this exempts you from ever having friends or whatever, but it exempts you from having friends here. We aren’t able to just forget all that.
Instead of demanding our forgiveness and forgetness, just go somewhere that hasn’t seen you troll and start over for real, with people who don’t know you ever were a troll.
Also don’t make it a community that has a lot of heated political debates that you’re frequently on the minority side of. That’s not how you make friends.
As I said, that was trolling.
That doesn’t make it okay, dumbshit.
“Socialism doesn’t work.”
What is socialism? What is capitalism? What is a free market? What is a mixed economy?
But no, fuck that, that’s the advanced class.
You still haven’t answered me and Ami. XD XD XD XD XD
^ What Dracula said.
Really? Really MRAL? How much of that “Huge amount of time” was spent being a vile, nasty, hate little shit? And you’re shocked — SHOCKED — that after saying all of those terrible things, after being so disgustingly hateful for so long for the lulz that people suddenly aren’t eating out of the palm of your hand the moment you say you’ve “changed”?
Even after that “change” you still leak bitterness at women everywhere. It comes out when you slip and call women “entitled alpha bitches. It comes out when you throw a temper tantrum when ever anyone suggests that women, as a whole may have kind of a raw deal compared to men in a few areas. And you’re really surprised that the people here take exception to that? Really?
So, NWOslave, if parental leave is socialism, how do we make it possible for men to not have such a raw deal when it comes to childcare?
Especially considering that you yourself admitted that the shit you said while trolling came a little too close to how you really feel for your own comfort.
NWO – First of all, even with your assumptions, your math is shit. $80 per person per month to finance Lady Expenses, and 100 million workers, would mean that maternity leave cost $8 billion a year. Not $276 billion. You’re double and triple counting.
But secondly, that money isn’t “lost.” It’s money the company spends to retain good workers who are temporarily unable to work, and it’s money that then flows into various baby-products industries. It’s not just set on fire because WOMEN got ahold of it.
… All right, I get it. Holly is right. I’m going to leave. For the record, I think overall, posting here was a net positive. I appreciate people still having patience after so much trolling, of course, I didn’t mean to suggest otherwise. And I guess you’re all right that I can’t expect to be received in the community after that. And I don’t want to return to a fakey ragey trol and piss away everyone’s goodwilll, so yeah, I’ll leave. I think this site does good work, and is funny, and mocking misogyny is important. I just have a hard time with it, because I have the aforementioned negative knee-jerk reaction to feminism, because of inner insecurites and wounds and all that, but that’s my own problem, and I’m working on it. I do like most people here, FYI, I mean I hung around for eight months. Thanks for tolerating me. Bye all.
“As I said, that was trolling.”
IT WAS? OH NEVER MIND!
Of course it was trolling, you fuckwit. So is what you’re doing now. Grow the fuck up, you pathetic slimeball. Nobody here has to explain to you why they’re being so MEEEEEN.
You were treated AMAZINGLY well here, all things considered. People reached out to you. People said you were young and had a chance to change. People gave you a chance. And another chance, and another. All in the face of your lulzy hate speech trollin’!
And if you aren’t fucking awed by that, you’re a… Well, you.
Oh fuck, my own math is bad. $80 per person per month times 100 million workers times twelve months is $240 billion per year. Still. Not $276.
And anyway these are numbers you just made up.
Good. Goodbye. Stick the still passive-agressive fond farewell.
Didn’t he just start out with 100 workers? /is also bad at math.
“And anyway these are numbers you just made up.”
That’s debunking. It’s what you do when feminists don’t have any proof, just words on paper. You make other words or numbers at them, and it debunks them.
@zhinxy
Yes, I answered. You never need ask again. Go read it and then you can shut up about it.
MRAL, are you trying to be the new B_n ?
Your “well, if I can’t see it/feel it/benefit from it, it obviously doesn’t exist!” attitude does seem reminiscent of his rather, uh, self-centered views, to put it mildly.
Do you understand that people still have lives and experiences, even though you play no role in them, and that they are still just as legit?
You are so self-centered, so incapable of empathizing with experiences that have nothing to do with you and your feelings, so fucking selfish that you can’t even see how understanding people here have been even after you were an asshole to for so long, yet you keep whining how everyone here acts like victims and are unfair to you.
I was very happy when you announced your heel face turn, and I had a lot of hope, but honestly, you showed that you are still an asshole, just a little less trollish.
Please, just go away.
Don’t come here anymore, at least for a while. I know you probably don’t give a fuck that you frustrate the people here after they have given you the benefit of the doubt so often, but you don’t seem to be very happy here either, so go somewhere else where you will hopefully find joy and won’t give people (and yourself) grief.
When you eliminate all factors that create the wage gap, there is no wage gap.
QED!
@TheNatFantastic
In the US that is the “Official” unemployment rate of the U3. The U6, or more accurate statistic includes Unemployed whose benefits have run out, unemployed who are no longer able to rejoin the work-force, and part-time employees who want to work full time but can’t find a full time job.
No woman has ever worked in a late-night restaurant or bar. No woman has ever worked in a hotel cleaning rooms. No woman has ever farmed. No woman has ever worked in a textile mill or factory, even when they take some milkslave’s job at Pepsi Co.
@ithiliana wave to me when you pass through Bellevue
I doubt you have. But I’ve pointed out before I’ve met an equal number of women and men who have blown knees and backs from restaurant work. I personally know a woman who has scars on 20% of her body plus the associated muscle/nerve damage from being electrocuted from working on an overhead line.
oh my, I should have refreshed the page D:
Bye, MRAL!
@MRAL: I don’t want to hear about how much better I have it at 8 bucks an hour, 25-30 hours a week, plus school. I’m sick of it. It makes me upset.
You have quite a pair of balls, there, bucko, given the way you call women bitches to demand that anybody stop doing anything that makes you upset (especially when, in fact, nobody is saying this–you’re imagining it, like you imagine just about everything about women’s lives).
Stop listening to those weird voices in your head.
And for holy fuck’s sake, realize that the thing we are talking about are not just about you.
I’m that close to starting a petition for David to give you the Brandon challenge to see if you can in fact write anything that isn’t IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIi
What do the rest of you think (Not sure when this will appear since am now at hotel in Seattle!).
FUCK my math sucks. Okay.
Final Corrected NWO Correction.
If there are 100 million workers, and out of every hundred:
4 of them are out on leave at 40K for six months
4 of them are temps covering for women at 30K (it’s six months, not a year)
and
1 of them is a human resources worker handling Lady Paperwork at 60K
Then the total cost for every 100 workers is (40K * 4) + (30K * 4) + 60K.
340K per hundred workers.
$3,400 per worker.
Or $34 billion for the whole economy. (Which, as I said, isn’t wasted because it’s money spent on worker retention and it’s getting spent on baby products and family necessities.)
But all this is moot because you just made those numbers up anyway.