Over on Reddit, DoktorTeufel has a problem: he likes the ladies, but he doesn’t like the feminists. Unfortunately, some ladies are also feminists! And therein lies the danger. Naturally, he turns to the fellas in the Men’s Rights subreddit for help.
I’m just going to come out and say it: I will never knowingly enter into a romantic relationship with a feminist. I do have some female relatives and acquaintances who are feminists … and it’s not like they all wear signs that proclaim I’M A FEMINIST. (Some do.)
Aside from obvious telltales (feminist bumper stickers, etc.) or outright asking them “Are you a feminist?”, what are some discreet ways to ferret out a woman’s views on gender activism without creating an awkward situation? Feminism is a minefield topic, and I certainly wouldn’t broach the subject directly with a woman I’ve just started dating.
Naturally, this being the Men’s Rights subreddit, he received much helpful advice. Celda broke it down for him:
You don’t really care whether she identifies as a feminist or not – you care what her views are.
For instance, does she feel women have the right to force men into parental obligations against their will?
Does she feel women are oppressed in Western society?
Does she think that women make less money than men for the same work?
If yes to these questions or similar, then you probably want to avoid her.
Exactly. Always avoid those with a basic grasp on reality. They’re the worst!
Naive1000 suggested looking for more subtle clues.
Ask their thoughts on “benevolent sexism” if they know what your talking about you likely have a feminist. Just to make sure go into male privilege, it’s the feminists’ most popular talking point. Let her talk about it then you can see what she’s really like. But, there are some women who call themselves feminists, but are really egalitarian: they just don’t know the term.
Memymineown also suggests a subtle approach, and holds out hope that some of the younger feminist girls can be won back to the path of righteousness:
Bring Men’s Rights issues into the conversation subtly. I was talking with my family about Justin Beiber and brought up the paternity charge and no rape charges filed against the woman.
That led into a discussion about how women aren’t punished for rape.
Just do things like that.
But you shouldn’t exclude all feminists. I would say that the vast majority are just girls(I do use that word on purpose) who have been lied to. Once you show them the real facts they will probably come around.
ThePigman, by contrast, urges DoktorTeufel to go for the jugular:
Why do you need to be discrete about it? Just ask her. If she is a member of the cult she will start screaming about the patriarchy, then her head will explode.
It’s true. Pretty much every conversation involving feminists quickly devolves into screaming about patriarchy. Heck, a feminist friend and I once screamed about patriarchy for five hours straight. We probably could have gone longer, but the manager at Applebee’s, evidently not a feminist, threw us out. Sometimes I start screaming about patriarchy when no one else is around, just to keep in practice.
Conversations with feminists pretty much all go like the conversation in the video below, only instead of a cat you need to picture a feminist, and instead of the word “no,” the word “patriarchy.” You can see how annoying that might get, and not just to Hitler.
@nwo
I’m unemployed and I could die any time too. What if a bus came crashing through the wall or the ceiling collapsed on my head or I had a heart attack or an axe-murderer got me or I slipped in the shower or got caught in an explosion or savaged by wolves or… well you get the point.
I don’t think that chance and/or shoddy health and safety are eeeeevil feminist conspiracies though.
Plus, it would put a horrific cramp in your martyrdom.
Possible NWOslave jobs:
Alligator wrangling
Handling molten metal without gloves
Fixing ceiling lights while standing on a wobbly ladder
Washing skyscraper windows and refusing to wear a safety tether
Given his new found appreciation for work-life balance, I’m sure NWO would enthusiastically support programs designed to promote same–such as parental leave. Right?
I just don’t like the encouragement of women who are my age, make my money and have way better lives than I do, to get to feel all self-righteous.
Will he explode or choke on someone else’s vomit?
NWO, good to see that you’ve drank your bosses’ Kool-Aid (or, I guess, milk) about how the job just can’t be done if you follow safety regulations.
For someone who thinks of himself as a skeptic, you’re incredibly gullible and easily manipulated. And “I take pride in the fact that my job could kill me, it means I’m a strong man” is just one of those sad cases of you not just believing what you were told but completely internalizing it.
I could die at my job at any time too. What a if a bear came in the door!?
@Holly Pervocracy
“But most women don’t have that choice at all. Most women have the choice “be a stay-at-home mom, or never have kids.” And most men don’t have to face that.”
In my world, any man that could stay home would. The same “non-choice” of staying at home to be a mother is the same “non-choice” a man makes to be a father. He must work outside the home to be that father.
They don’t get to feel self-righteous. They don’t get to feel like victims. They already have everything, they don’t need MORE.
Wah. MRAL, WAH. is it nap time already?
This is why the “men always take more dangerous jobs!” argument never impresses me. It just means the men have been talked into a raw deal.
MRAL, nobody is talking about you. It’s a matter of average on population. If you continue like that, soon you won’t be able to pass the Brandon Challenge.
@JohnnyBB
“I could die at my job at any time too. What a if a bear came in the door!?”
90% of my work consists of being around 40 feet in the air. Sometimes there’s no where to tie off to. So you walk or crawl around in the cieling and hope you don’t fall.
You know, any of us could die any day at our jobs. Or at home. Or anywhere. Scary!
Ullere: @Pecunium WSJ has less of a vested interest than say Feminists. The statistics in the artcle are from an external study performed by a peer reviewed university study, I cannot find it but please try to look it out yourself before you question its validity.
1: The WSJ has a very vested interest. Unlike feminists they get paid by virtue of suppressing wages.
2: That piece you cited was an opinion piece, by an avowed anti-feminist. Ms Lukas most decidedly has an agenda.
3: Ms Lukas doesn’t actually do more than assert a number of things, out of context. Nowhere does she give us the study itself to look at.
4: Nope, you want to say the study is all hunky dory, you are the one required to find it; you (along with Ms. Lukas) are the one making a statement of fact.
Given the source, I am giving no credence to it. The rhetorical devices she uses to intimate, without actually supporting are enough (even without my previous visits to her “Independent Women’s Forum”) to make her suspect. That she is being published in a WSJ Op-Ed is merely icing on the cake.
I understand certain feminist arguments. But when it comes to the wage gap, all I hear it self-righteousness, we want more more more. They aren’t victims. They get everything I do and many of them get more. I don’t want to hear about that.
Dang. That comment I made about NWOslave refusing to use a safety tether was a JOKE.
MRAL isn’t paid more than his co-workers therefore there is no wage inequality and talking about it hurts his fee-fees.
Everyone has to tread on eggshells around MRAL in case, god forbid, he turns into a raging misogynist again. Yipee!
Apparently my patience is AWOL…
NWO: Is there a difference between “home daycare owner” and “stay at home mom” in the world of feminism?
I don’t think feminism has anything to do with it. A home daycare owner is being paid to look after children. Cash money.
A stay at home parent isn’t.
Simple enough even for you, my dear man.
Ullere: ‘Primus: Seriously. I have yet to see you admit to the possibility of personal error/misinterpretation of the facts?’
I am fallable, I have been turned around on a couple of things in the past.
I didn’t say you haven’t. I said that I’ve not seen it.
‘Tertius: The use of ad hominem (saying that hellkell, et alia, aren’t possessed of facts, or argument, nor even actual opinions, but merely engaging in echo chamber responses because “some feminist has been challenged), is doing you no good turn.’
I call em like I seem them,
What you did was ad hominem You dismissed the point, not for it’s substance, but because of who said it, and when.
I’m sorry that you also have covered this before, but until the lies about the wage gap stop
I heartily concrr.
Re: the whole, men work more dangerous jobs thing.
As I pointed out a comment thread or two ago, the overwhelming majority of sweatshop labor carried out worldwide is performed by women. These jobs are dangerous and carry a laundry list of adverse health effects that vary by specific job.
So not only are women working dangerous jobs in vast numbers, but they’re doing them for unjust wages in appalling conditions.
Of course, when MRAs say “women”, they mean “white upper class American women.”
@Molly Ren
“This is why the “men always take more dangerous jobs!” argument never impresses me. It just means the men have been talked into a raw deal.”
I do the job or I starve. I doubt I’ll be laughing that I showed them feminists as I lie in a pool of my own blood. Perhaps you’ve never seen a man lose his arm or finger or fall to his death. No one laughs or brags.
So think about that the next time you buy your shirts, shoes, ipods, computers (just about anything with a circuit board), and all these other things that depend on sweatshop labor. Remember that they were probably made and assembled mostly by women working in shitty and dangerous conditions for very little pay and no benefits.
And anyway, young men are the ones that pay for most things, so I would say that young men must budget even more carefully- of course all young peeps do, but probably it’s harder for men. Then, as older men, sure, they may make more (due to semi-obigatory life choices) but most of them are supporting a family.