Over on Reddit, DoktorTeufel has a problem: he likes the ladies, but he doesn’t like the feminists. Unfortunately, some ladies are also feminists! And therein lies the danger. Naturally, he turns to the fellas in the Men’s Rights subreddit for help.
I’m just going to come out and say it: I will never knowingly enter into a romantic relationship with a feminist. I do have some female relatives and acquaintances who are feminists … and it’s not like they all wear signs that proclaim I’M A FEMINIST. (Some do.)
Aside from obvious telltales (feminist bumper stickers, etc.) or outright asking them “Are you a feminist?”, what are some discreet ways to ferret out a woman’s views on gender activism without creating an awkward situation? Feminism is a minefield topic, and I certainly wouldn’t broach the subject directly with a woman I’ve just started dating.
Naturally, this being the Men’s Rights subreddit, he received much helpful advice. Celda broke it down for him:
You don’t really care whether she identifies as a feminist or not – you care what her views are.
For instance, does she feel women have the right to force men into parental obligations against their will?
Does she feel women are oppressed in Western society?
Does she think that women make less money than men for the same work?
If yes to these questions or similar, then you probably want to avoid her.
Exactly. Always avoid those with a basic grasp on reality. They’re the worst!
Naive1000 suggested looking for more subtle clues.
Ask their thoughts on “benevolent sexism” if they know what your talking about you likely have a feminist. Just to make sure go into male privilege, it’s the feminists’ most popular talking point. Let her talk about it then you can see what she’s really like. But, there are some women who call themselves feminists, but are really egalitarian: they just don’t know the term.
Memymineown also suggests a subtle approach, and holds out hope that some of the younger feminist girls can be won back to the path of righteousness:
Bring Men’s Rights issues into the conversation subtly. I was talking with my family about Justin Beiber and brought up the paternity charge and no rape charges filed against the woman.
That led into a discussion about how women aren’t punished for rape.
Just do things like that.
But you shouldn’t exclude all feminists. I would say that the vast majority are just girls(I do use that word on purpose) who have been lied to. Once you show them the real facts they will probably come around.
ThePigman, by contrast, urges DoktorTeufel to go for the jugular:
Why do you need to be discrete about it? Just ask her. If she is a member of the cult she will start screaming about the patriarchy, then her head will explode.
It’s true. Pretty much every conversation involving feminists quickly devolves into screaming about patriarchy. Heck, a feminist friend and I once screamed about patriarchy for five hours straight. We probably could have gone longer, but the manager at Applebee’s, evidently not a feminist, threw us out. Sometimes I start screaming about patriarchy when no one else is around, just to keep in practice.
Conversations with feminists pretty much all go like the conversation in the video below, only instead of a cat you need to picture a feminist, and instead of the word “no,” the word “patriarchy.” You can see how annoying that might get, and not just to Hitler.
What a lovely example of gender discrimination in action.
Unless you think that all fathers are ready and willing to become stay-at-home dads, just say the word?
Or if you think that “women can have this job if they don’t have kids; men can have this job whether they have kids or not” is fair.
@Holly Pervocracy
“But NWO, why do you think someone with limited education is only willing to work weekdays? Rarely is it because they’re a special princess. Usually it’s because they have kids at home and the dad is either absent or has a higher-paying job, so they have to be home when school is out.”
Homelife in not a punishment. Homelife for the average person is a reward.
A person who is wealthy enough to saty at home is privileged above a person who “has” to work. Homelife is always superior to work life.
Ullere: Care to justify your claims that the studies show that they have controlled for those differences and they negate the wage gap?
Because what I see is,
No consensus. Everything else in that GOA study you quote has to be seen in the light of two things in that paragraph, 1: Women have typically earned less than men and, 2: There is no consensus as to magnitude, and why
The last is because, contra your claims supra, the variables you claim can be controlled for to show that women, as a whole, are not beig paid less than men, can’t be.
What it didn’t, and you don’t, is examine the why’s of this. Women, for example, are often placed into part-time jobs when they apply for positions. This is because the employer assumes they will “want time to tend to their family.”
Bang, they have fewer hours, and so earn less money. When a family does end up with a need, for whatever reason, for one parent to stay home… guess what? The part-time employee in the familial unit is going to be the one who takes a leave of absence from the workforce.
It’s what we call a positive feedback loop, with causitive confirmation bias (in plain enlgish, the first thing leads to the second, which supports the false conclusion on which the situatin which led to the confrimational result. That confirmational result will be used to justify not hiring/paying a woman the same way a man would be hired).
Even using that, the study still says, in it’s summary,
If that’s your idea of a difference that makes no difference…
And here’s the difference between you and I, NWO:
It’s been a damn long time since I’ve had to fill out an application, most of us use resumes.
I’ve filled out an application for most of the jobs I’ve ever had, hellkell. 🙁
@Holly Pervocracy
“Unless you think that all fathers are ready and willing to become stay-at-home dads, just say the word?”
Are all women willing to support men to stay at home. Those same jobs where it’s almost exculsively men being injured and killed still have to be done. Are women willing to do that?
Homelife is the reward.
NWO, is homelife always better–what if it’s abusive?
@hellkell
I use resume’s as well, the application still needs to be filled out along wiht it.
Then living on unemployment (delightful “homelife,” no dirty diapers, and better and more reliable pay than being a single parent) must be the sweetest life of all.
What are these jobs where men are always being killed? Unless it’s the millitary, they have shoddy work safety regulations.
@hellkell
“NWO, is homelife always better–what if it’s abusive?”
You can have a shit job you hate and still be in an abusive homelife.
Is the abusive homelife the rule or the exception?
From the post on fake feminists:
Ullere:
Just sayin’.
YES WE ARE.
In fact, yes we DO. I’ve gotten a concussion at work, I’ve gotten punched at spit on, I’ve had patients with contagious diseases cough and bleed on me.
But no, we’re not all willing to support men at home. Just like not all men are willing to support women at home. People are people and all that. It doesn’t matter what all women are willing to do. It matters how few women ever get the choice at all.
@Molly Ren
I can die in my job at anytime.
Then you need better safety regulations, if that’s the case, NWO.
@Holly Pervocracy
If all women aren’t willing to support men at home than don’t make the statement that men can stay at home as well.
MRAL, you seem to have an ongoing problem with this concept, but there is a world outside the world of 20-year-old middle-class college students. And in a few years you’re going to enter that world, so maybe you should start planning for that instead of acting like life consists entirely of campus dating and part-time jobs at Starbucks (which is a damn good place to work, by the way, and you sound ridiculous whining about it).
Is it okay for your female colleagues in your future career to get shafted, because you all got paid minimum wage in your first week working at Starbucks?
I know you’ve told us bits and pieces about your jobs, NWO, but I’d really love to know what you do every day that carries such a high risk of death.
All or nothing, right, NWO? You are sad.
@hellkell
Due to all the regulation which never actually do anything since it’s impossible to do the actual work nessecary following any such codes, the only thing that’s been accomplished is doubling the price of every purche you make and feuling a useless safety industry.
Well, “women” aren’t one person, so this is sort of a stupid argument. Some women are so willing to support their male partners that they already do, some aren’t.
But most women don’t have that choice at all. Most women have the choice “be a stay-at-home mom, or never have kids.” And most men don’t have to face that.
But according to the study you cite, Ullere, just a few lines down, fathers do get paid more than men without children. Anyhow, the 10-15% comes from a study I read a few days ago and now can’t find, for the life of me. I’ll keep looking. It’s really annoying me that I can’t find it.
@hellkell
“All or nothing, right, NWO? You are sad.”
Feminism is the all or nothing ideology. You degrade all motherhood as a choice that shouldn’t be.
NWOslave is a drummer for Spinal Tap.
Or a Torchwood Agent.