Over on Reddit, DoktorTeufel has a problem: he likes the ladies, but he doesn’t like the feminists. Unfortunately, some ladies are also feminists! And therein lies the danger. Naturally, he turns to the fellas in the Men’s Rights subreddit for help.
I’m just going to come out and say it: I will never knowingly enter into a romantic relationship with a feminist. I do have some female relatives and acquaintances who are feminists … and it’s not like they all wear signs that proclaim I’M A FEMINIST. (Some do.)
Aside from obvious telltales (feminist bumper stickers, etc.) or outright asking them “Are you a feminist?”, what are some discreet ways to ferret out a woman’s views on gender activism without creating an awkward situation? Feminism is a minefield topic, and I certainly wouldn’t broach the subject directly with a woman I’ve just started dating.
Naturally, this being the Men’s Rights subreddit, he received much helpful advice. Celda broke it down for him:
You don’t really care whether she identifies as a feminist or not – you care what her views are.
For instance, does she feel women have the right to force men into parental obligations against their will?
Does she feel women are oppressed in Western society?
Does she think that women make less money than men for the same work?
If yes to these questions or similar, then you probably want to avoid her.
Exactly. Always avoid those with a basic grasp on reality. They’re the worst!
Naive1000 suggested looking for more subtle clues.
Ask their thoughts on “benevolent sexism” if they know what your talking about you likely have a feminist. Just to make sure go into male privilege, it’s the feminists’ most popular talking point. Let her talk about it then you can see what she’s really like. But, there are some women who call themselves feminists, but are really egalitarian: they just don’t know the term.
Memymineown also suggests a subtle approach, and holds out hope that some of the younger feminist girls can be won back to the path of righteousness:
Bring Men’s Rights issues into the conversation subtly. I was talking with my family about Justin Beiber and brought up the paternity charge and no rape charges filed against the woman.
That led into a discussion about how women aren’t punished for rape.
Just do things like that.
But you shouldn’t exclude all feminists. I would say that the vast majority are just girls(I do use that word on purpose) who have been lied to. Once you show them the real facts they will probably come around.
ThePigman, by contrast, urges DoktorTeufel to go for the jugular:
Why do you need to be discrete about it? Just ask her. If she is a member of the cult she will start screaming about the patriarchy, then her head will explode.
It’s true. Pretty much every conversation involving feminists quickly devolves into screaming about patriarchy. Heck, a feminist friend and I once screamed about patriarchy for five hours straight. We probably could have gone longer, but the manager at Applebee’s, evidently not a feminist, threw us out. Sometimes I start screaming about patriarchy when no one else is around, just to keep in practice.
Conversations with feminists pretty much all go like the conversation in the video below, only instead of a cat you need to picture a feminist, and instead of the word “no,” the word “patriarchy.” You can see how annoying that might get, and not just to Hitler.
@zhinxy – The conclusion is that either you have goth tendencies or you have a dark sense of humor.
Funniest recent music-related experience was going to see Peter Hook and watching a bunch of people in their 30s-50s jump up and down screaming like excited teenagers during Love Will Tear Us Apart. It brought a tear to my cynical little eye.
(OK, that was mostly because I was so happy to see an actual member of Joy Division doing the song live, but still, it was touching.)
@CassandraSays
All the shit that I read from PUAs on here and other feminist sites makes me think that they have a bet with each other on who can take reasonable shit and convert into something that’ll get your ass stomped. I mean, the reasonable idea that a playful sense of humour helps when flirting becomes walk up to a stranger and open up by calling her a beautiful idiot. Now they take the reasonable idea that being abreast of current topics and what’s currently popular helps when making conversation becomes walk up to some random girl and randomly compare her to some random TV character and expect a predictable result because…. *footage not found*
@zhinxy
Cool, I remembered reading that somewhere but I wasn’t sure.
I pray, pray, PRAY that this was taken up by fundamentalist christians. I would love to season lunch with that irony!
If I didn’t know that PUAs were real because I’ve met them myself I’d assume that the whole thing was some sort of parody, honestly. Surely they don’t actually expect women to drop their panties because some random dude insults them and then stands there waiting for the women to try to earn his approval, right? And yet yes, this is exactly what they expect, and they get very upset when it’s suggested that it doesn’t always work as planned.
Meller’s worldview is an interesting grab-bag even by Internet loon standards. He’s also mentioned believing in holistic medicine, auras, and ESP (not to mention the mind-melding with animals that would’ve been invented by now if it weren’t for those darn women scientists). He’s like Soldier of Fortune crossed with Omni magazine crossed with Victorian porn.
If I was ever negged when I was younger, I probably just assumed the guy didn’t like me and stopped talking to him. I’m not a deep thinker when it comes to social interaction.
Shaenon –
If they added a touch more steampunk elements, I’ve theorized that Meller literally IS
http://www.rense.com
Incarnate, and come forth to argue with the rest of the internet.
To the point where I’ve told him that I could picture him with a banner ad that said HEIRLOOM SURVIVAL SEEDS or COLLODAL SILVER MIRACLES wrapped around his head like a sweatband.
I just noticed this upthread. How did I miss this gem on the first read-through?
“Admitedly for the PUA guys they have unlimited sexual partners so can move between them I assume?”
This may well be the funniest thing that Ullere has ever said.
re G-d. That comes of a commandment that one not destroy the written name of God. As a result (happily) there is a largish body of letters from a couple of Egytian communities which happened to have the name of God on them, and so were kept, from the middle of the Crusades.
That’s given historians some interesting insights to trade in the 12th century.
That’s given historians some interesting insights to trade in the 12th century.
…
Pecunium, historians aren’t supposed to tell people that they go back to the 12th century and trade insights, dude. You shouldn’t know this. You aren’t safe.
Seriously, though, yes that. XD
Oh, and Shadow – Yes, fundamentalists HAVE taken it up. It is cereal irony, but the whole knotty tangle of fundamentalism, Israel obsession, the Messianic movement, et al makes it… very explicable in it’s context. As far as explicable goes.
zhinxy: I’m an interrogator, I give them tips on collecting info. I also warn them about the nasty things one can catch, and recommend a healthy supply of cinchona bark.
The ones that listen, have a much better time.
But of course. I shall say no more here.
That’s probably for the best.
@Pecunium
Cheers. that’s what I’d remembered reading, but it’d been so long ago that I wasn’t sure if I was remembering right
First thing is that generally ladies are not feminists, on the other hand feminists cannot be ladies, because of they are not feminine. Feminists can be easily spotted by their behavior and the way of thinking. Some of feminists have double standards and they are cheating on real masculine men by showing a false femininity.
“Some of feminists have double standards and they are cheating on real masculine men by showing a false femininity.”
Indeed. When I want to cheat on my partner I don’t bother going out and finding someone to fuck, because feminists are lazy. Instead I put on a frilly dress and tie pink ribbons in my hair.
Explore Nature: We don’t care. At all. Some feminists are feminine, some are not. Some are men, some are women, some are gender queer. Some are straight, some are gay, some are bi, some are asexual,… Femininity is not the graal for all women.
“Feminists can be easily spotted by their behavior and the way of thinking.”
You’re a fucking genius. Feminists are defined by their way of thinking. And we’re not a secret society either.
“Some of feminists have double standards and they are cheating on real masculine men by showing a false femininity.”
So… Do you want us to try to be feminine or not?
So, no feminists are feminine, except the ones that are, but they’re faking it, for what you can only assume is some nefarious purpose. Am I reading this right?
On a related point, EN: I would love your definition of “cheating” and “double standard”. (I you need context, the context is your sentence)
Oh, good thing I never cheat on my partner. Give me ripped blue jeans or give me death, I say!
Perhaps our dear friend with the fondness for the outdoors might benefit from exploring logic instead.
One can only hope it meets with a more fruitful outcome than his examinations, and ruminations of the ordering of the natural world; esp. as he has done so with regard to the ways of the feminine mind and psyche.
Whenever some MRM douchebag comes around to say feminists are not feminine I like to point to myself and say “bellydancer”
Bellydancer
if you think bellydancers are not feminine you are truly deluded.
Jesus, it’s a brown NWO, with justa dash of DKM!! I’d tell them to band together, but Explore Nature’s non-white skin may cause NWO problems. Then again, he’s not in the States so he MIGHT not be stealing NWO’s job opportunities (of which there are plenty let me tell you)
What does EN’s skin color have to do with anything?
@Pecunium
While it does refer to EN’s skin colour, brown is actually how South Asians (and Guyanese and Trinidadians and various other people of South Asian descent) here, in Canada, tend to refer to ourselves. And even though there really isn’t any, IME us POCs tend to find it ironic when we have white counterparts. Plus, NWO’s and DKM’s words tend to make me think that they would not appreciate being compared to someone of a less than lily-white ancestry.
Sometimes I dress up all femme in part because my partner enjoys it! Littledoesheknow, the moment I put on a dress and some lip gloss I am… having sex with other people? I guess? Do I have sex with the dress itself?